This is a transcript from episode 6 of the 9 to 5 Faith Podcast with Paige C. Clark.
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Paige C. Clark 00:00
This is Paige C Clark and you’re listening to the nine to five faith podcast. Hi, everyone. Welcome to this episode. I’m here with my friend Carla. Carla, how are you doing today?
Carla H. Hayden 00:48
I’m doing so good. It is the beginning of March. We’ve made it. We’ve made it through February, the shortest and yet the longest month?
Paige C. Clark 00:56
Yes, it is crazy that like, we’re still only like two months into the year and it feels like it’s been a long year thus far.
Carla H. Hayden 01:07
It’s been a long year.
Paige C. Clark 01:08
Yes. Well, so glad to have you on the podcast. And so glad to have this conversation. Because again, I say this a lot. But I can’t relate to celebrity speakers, or infamous people, I can relate to normal people. And I think there’s a lot of people out there who are normal people. So let’s talk about life in a normal person’s, and then normal person’s world. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Carla H. Hayden 01:37
Yeah, so I am a single mom of three, I have three young adult children. And my nine to five, if you will, is I am actually in a new assignment. I just started a new job about three months ago, I’m the Chief People Officer for a financial advisory firm here in Indianapolis, Indiana. It is a hybrid office of about 35 people, which is almost completely opposite of the assignment I was in for the last two for the previous two and a half years, which I was the chief operating officer for a fully remote team for an online membership community. And so it’s just really been interesting to kind of adjust back to having a local network and having to put shoes on every day.
Paige C. Clark 02:27
So you are working in an office
Carla H. Hayden 02:31
I am it’s actually hybrid. So I try to be in the office. At least three days, it’s really been more like four days a week. But I do reserve Fridays for working from home and trying to do very little to no meetings so that I can kind of keep that as my deep work day. It doesn’t always happen. But I’m also chalking that up to I’m still in my first 90 days, I’m coming up on my 90 days next week. So that’s always a whirlwind of activity anyway.
Paige C. Clark 03:00
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think that no meeting days are always good at my company, we have no meeting Fridays. So every single Friday, we get out and everyone respects it even even so much so that people like apologize when they have to slack you about so I know. Like I respect I respect the boundaries, but I’m like, you know, like it’s its messaging, it would be like if you were in the office, and like you had to ask me a question like that is fair game equally.
Carla H. Hayden 03:30
Yeah. That’s so good, though, to have a culture where people really do respect those boundaries. Yeah. Because it it’s so what I have found after being back in an office environment after two and a half, almost three years of not being in one is I do enjoy the buzz. I enjoy that energy and kind of seeing people and having those unintentional connection points have, I’m getting coffee, you’re getting coffee, how was your weekend. But I do find for myself, I have to put like my headphones in and just really focus because I tend to be like, Oh, who’s walking by? Oh. So
Paige C. Clark 04:10
I’m the same way. I’ve seen something floating around the internet where it’s like someone who has assigned tape to the back of their chair and said, like, Please don’t disturb me, I will talk to you and lock you up. I worked.
Carla H. Hayden 04:23
It is a unique thing for me because my title My role is Chief People Officer. And so I do feel torn on on a lot of days where my job is the people, I’m the Chief of people. And so if the people need me, I want to be available. And also there is tenacity type work to be done. Even in my job. It’s not all meetings. And so I do have to be a grown up about my own schedule and just block those times. And just like what you were saying with your office, it’s people are pretty respectful about
Paige C. Clark 04:57
that. Yeah, yeah. And when thing I noticed when you were just talking is you talk about their your assignment, which that language really intrigues me. You’re not saying my new job or my career, it’s your new assignment? Can you tell them more about that?
Carla H. Hayden 05:13
Yeah, I think this came about a number of years ago for me, and, and it really came from a place of seeking the Lord for, you know, I think a lot of us sometimes grow up in a faith or even come to faith. And we’re wondering, like, what is my call, what’s my calling, and it’s this really big, ominous, like, if I get it wrong, it’s like, hitting the wrong button. And really, God just in his kindness, and his graciousness towards me, really led me down a path of understanding that my, my calling is the same as yours as a believer it is to bring glory to God, it’s to be an imager of God, that’s my calling. But the way in which I’m going to do it could look very different than the way it’s going to look for you. And, and that really came to a place also, when I went through some a relational change. I was, as I mentioned, I’m a single mom, but I wasn’t always a single mom. And during that time of change, and transition and grief, I was really seeking the Lord for like, is, is this it? So I now have to check a different box on a on a piece of paper that, you know, when it comes to my status. And is that it like that’s, that’s the end of my call. That’s it. And what I realized is that even things like marriage, like parenting, like your bank account, those types of things that are important, and weighty in this world, but temporal nonetheless, they are just our assignments and assignments, they come and go, they have start times and end times. God doesn’t always allow us to be privy to what those dates are, right. But it really comes down to understanding that no matter what your assignment is, God is calling us to faithfulness in that assignment. And so that’s really the way that I have approached my jobs, but also just the various seasons of my life. I look at each season and each opportunity, each door that God opens as an assignment and and then seek Him for how to be faithful in in that particular. Yeah, where he’s placing me.
Paige C. Clark 07:39
Yeah. And I think that releases so much of the like, kind of paranoia of like, Oh, am I doing what, what God’s wanting me to do? Whatever this is like going back and forth with all those questions, and what really grounds me and all of that is like, there’s nothing I can do to screw up God’s plan. Yeah. That is a very, like freeing sense of like, even if I suck at this assignment, like God is still God at the end of the day.
Carla H. Hayden 08:13
That’s right. Yeah. And he is, he’s so gracious. And he’s so merciful to us. And assignments are really opportunity, their opportunity for reward their opportunity for promotion, I don’t just mean that in the job sense. Like, you know, promotion, even when you think about growing up and going to school. You know, you’re moving from grade to grade. And it’s every time you’re stepping into a new grade, there’s some things that you’re like, oh, yeah, I learned that in the last grade. And I’m taking that with me and some things that are just brand new, and you’re not going to be an expert on it on day one, which I think for a lot of us is a really uncomfortable place to be. But it should be an invitation that draws us into a greater intimacy with God of, okay, this is new, but you are not, you aren’t in the dark about how to operate in this assignment. You’ve prepared this for me beforehand. And so my role is just to walk in faithfulness and in relationship with you through this assignment until the end, and that end for some people is, you know, like my mom, she worked for the same company for 50 years, she had one employer her entire adult life. And I’ve probably had 50 employers you know, it’s the opposite. And so it’s it’s not the same for everyone. And I think that that’s just if I were to issue a permission slip today for people you know, by where to put on my mom and Hayden hat and issue a permission slip it would be just be faithful to your own assignment. And, and that comes from the Lord.
Paige C. Clark 09:50
Yeah, I think God is doing something I don’t know what it is. But I think he is doing something in the workplace in kind of this idea of like A higher turnover rate for employees, because you don’t hear of people spending 3040 years at a company anymore. You don’t. And it’s not necessarily the regular workplace. And so I think there’s something to be kind of said about that. I don’t know what it is, but I think there’s something there.
Carla H. Hayden 10:22
You know, I, I’m really glad that you brought that up, because my role is one of leadership. And I love, love, love leading leaders. And one of the things that I would really encourage leaders in today, Christian leader, specifically, is this idea of that you in your role as a leader of a company of a team of a group, whatever that is, you’re really called by God into an assignment of being a marketplace, shepherd. And so it is. So such a privilege and an opportunity to shepherd people in whatever season they’re in, if that’s their first job, their first big girl job out of college, that’s your opportunity to shepherd a young person in how to carry themselves in the marketplace, whatever your industry may be. If you’re shepherding somebody who is walking toward retirement, you have such an opportunity to help them finish well. And then everyone in between, you know, doing a good job in there every day, and people who want to get promoted and grow in their leadership and management. And, you know, the way that I look at it is, I, there’s just no reason to be upset when somebody wants to leave your company, because they have a, quote, better opportunity. You know, I’ve always, I’ve always really approached my leadership of people as, okay, the Lord has sent you to me for a certain season of time, and maybe that’s six months, maybe it’s six years, whatever that is, but it’s, it’s still just a fraction of time. And how can I help you show up as your full whole self in your job, do you contribute high value to your job, and, and whatever that looks like, because when somebody feels fulfilled in their role, it’s a, it’s a positive cycle, you know, they feel they feel fulfilled, they feel seen, they feel known, they feel wanted and loved, they bring their best self, when they bring their best self, then everybody wins on the team. And so, you know, if that person is there for a short period of time, because God is bringing them there, it could be to heal from a previous toxic workplace or toxic boss, it could be a place of gaining courage and confidence, maybe, you know, they were pursuing something and something happens at their previous employer, or they this is their first time stepping into a role. It could be where it’s a bridge to the next thing, whatever that is, like, there’s just no sense as a leader to be upset when somebody leaves, if they’re good, they’re gonna leave. If they’re good, they’re gonna get poached. And it’s okay, it because God’s going to fill your hopper back up with other people that need whatever you have to offer.
Paige C. Clark 13:20
Yeah, and I think, I think there’s a tendency in today’s workplace to try to fit like a square peg into a round hole with it’s just like, constant like promotion, promotion, growth, growth, growth, growth, kind of kind of mentality. And whereas like some of the best leaders I’ve ever had in, in the corporate world are, have said to me, I want you to be fulfilled, and I want you to grow how you want to grow. And if that happens at this company, great, but if it doesn’t, like, like, okay, yeah, you’re free, go, go do what you need to be doing. Because I, you know, I’d much rather have a leader who was encouraging my growth in a in an organic way versus into a forcing kind of trying to make everything that way.
Carla H. Hayden 14:18
Right. It really comes down to alignment, right alignment, in your assignment, your company has an assignment, you have an assignment, this could be a season where those two things align. And then there could be a world in which those two things don’t align at some point. And so I I’m always going to be somebody’s biggest support while they’re in my company, I’m going to help to clear roadblocks and obstacles to their success in the company. But when it’s time for them to leave, I’m going to be their biggest cheerleader, you know, and I’m going to help them finish well, because they are going to be launching into something else, even if that’s something else is their own gig. Um, you know, I want them to finish well with where they are. Yeah.
Paige C. Clark 15:04
Oh my gosh, there’s so many good things. I’m like, let’s, let’s have you again on Carla. And we’ll just just talk about leadership in the workplace. Let’s see, I feel like that’s a secondary conversation that definitely needs to happen. But let’s talk about you. And so like, you’re in office, you’re in this new gig, you’re finding your flow, you’re finding your rhythm. What does kind of like the day to day of Carlo look like? And how do you make sure that you? This is gonna sound bad? But how do you make sure to keep your faith at the forefront and fit God into the schedule of someone else?
Carla H. Hayden 15:41
Yeah, no, that’s a really great question. Well, first of all, I will tell you that just like everyone else, I’ve had to adjust specifically over the last two to three years. And then me specifically, I’ve had to adjust over the last few months of like, like I mentioned that at the top of the show, like, I have to put shoes on now, I have to, I have to a lot for a commute time now where my commute was 10 steps, you know, 10, literal stairs from upstairs to downstairs, and then I’d be in my office. Yeah. I, the way that I go about it. So my everyday looks almost exactly the same in the sense that I wake up and immediately have a cup of coffee. I mean, I’m not coffee with Carla for nothing’s immediately black cup of coffee. It doesn’t have to be fancy, it could be Keurig. It could be pot brewed. It doesn’t have to be you know, I don’t I don’t actually have time for the pour over, like just gives me hot and straight. But cup of coffee. And then I do I have my my time with the Lord. And that’s always in the word, always every single day. But that is a practice and a discipline that is over 20 years in the making. You know, I mentioned that I have young adult children. Now, they weren’t always young adults, they were young at one point. And so I this has been a practice that I have developed over the course of 20 years over the course of multiple and varied seasons of time, a mom of young kids, a homeschooling mom, a mom that had a part time job, you know, a married mom, a single mom being kind of a, you know, just a cog in a wheel to now being a leader in a company and everything in between. And so, you know, the, the what that looks like for me is, I don’t even really think about it anymore in the morning, it is the first thing that I do. And it’s not always a delight, sometimes I’m exhausted. Sometimes I’ve stayed up way too late binge watching something on a school night. And I’m tired. And what I have found recently, is, when that happens, I still have my quiet time. But number one, I will choose to read the word out loud in my out loud voice. So that helps, it helps to keep me a little bit more focused. It also awakens my soul and spirit because there is power in the spoken audible Word of God. And, you know, we know in Hebrews, it talks about faith comes through hearing and hearing by the Word of God. And for me, it’s like I and even if I don’t feel it in my emotions, I believe in that power that’s happening. And so as I’m speaking out, and even if it’s just the Psalms, you know, it doesn’t have to be, you know, Deuteronomy, it could just be you know, and just saying it out loud, and allowing the Holy Spirit to hover over those spoken words and do the work within me and trust it that work. And I have found even just as recently as this week that I wasn’t feeling it when I was starting. But as I got into it, and just again, faithfulness and obedience, just as I got into it, I actually found myself weeping that came out of nowhere. Yeah. And I realized that really what it was, is it was just a tenderizing of my soul and my spirit. And that sometimes when you’re a nine to FiVER, you’re just going, you’re just going going, going from one thing to the next from one meeting the next one email to the next and, and, and then to take that time to stop. It’s a strange, it’s almost like a paradox. It’s like you’re to take the time to stop at the start of your day. And to invite God into that space. And what I love to be there for two and a half hours, yes, but that would require me to wake up at a time that nobody should be up, quite frankly. But, but I do what I can and I trust. I trust that God sees my heart in it, and it’s really it’s, it’s making that time. So yeah, I have it every morning and then I get ready for the day, take a shower, get dressed, put my makeup on. And all that time I’m usually listening to a podcast and so I’m usually listening to either a leadership podcast because As for me, leadership is my craft. And so I want to be better at my craft, I want to sharpen my my skills and my tools. And so I’m either listening to a leadership podcast that is put on by somebody of a shared faith. So not just any leadership podcast, but there’s a lot of great ones by Christian leaders, or I’m listening to a spiritual formation podcast, because sometimes my brain is overloaded with learning of like, how to be a better leader, how to, you know, improve employee engagement, how to do this, and that, and sometimes my brain is like, the can’t take anymore. And so I’ll listen to a spiritual formation podcast, I’ll listen to maybe a message that I might have missed from my church, or you know, some other church or, you know, podcast that talks about the word and I just let it I just let it kind of rain over me as I’m taking a shower, and I don’t Yeah, don’t try to take notes or anything like that. I just trust that what I’m supposed to hear, I’m gonna hear. Yeah. And then my commute to work is about 10 minutes. So long enough where I can enter prepare, as I enter into the day, at that point, I’m usually listening to like worship music or something, just to kind of, again, refocused my heart. And it’s not so long, though that I have road rage. long commutes I cannot. So it’s just the right blend. Yeah. Yeah. And so that’s my day. And then, you know, I’m usually in the office between 830 and nine and kind of there until about five, maybe six, depending?
Paige C. Clark 21:34
And, and how do you like, demonstrate your faith in what you do every day? In terms of your work and your job? I mean, I think that, you know, as Christians, we’re called to live a different life than the world around us. And the likelihood is the people around us are not of the same faith. So what does that look like for you?
Carla H. Hayden 22:00
First of all, it’s excellence in whatever I’m putting my hands to, not perfection, but excellence, it’s, it’s taking the time it is taking it seriously, I again, I look at it as being an assignment from the Lord. And I want to be a faithful steward, a good and faithful steward of what he’s entrusted to me. And so it, that’s number one, it’s, it’s not slacking off. It’s not, you know, using company time to do personal things necessarily, or, you know, even in this day and age of work life balance, it’s just making sure that I’m getting my work done, you know, that’s 10 o’clock at night, as opposed to 10 in the morning, so be it, but I’m getting my work done. The other thing is, it’s about my attitude and my posture, I think there is ample opportunity to be negative in this world, there’s a lot to be afraid of, there’s a lot to complain about. There’s not a shortage of reasons to gossip, or grown. And so for me, I again, take very seriously my role of being a marketplace, Shepherd, I’m leading those sheep, whether or not they know, that’s what’s happening, right. And so it is leadership by example, it is coming in. And you know, you don’t have to be super sunshiny all the time. But a smile goes a long way, a good morning goes a long way, just those things and, and just having a positive attitude towards problems, you know, having a solutions, minded, you know, being using my creativity to be solutions minded, versus just like getting into the muck in the mire with people. One of the things that I have implemented in the last number of assignments that I’ve had is I do a thing called Coffee with Carla. And what I do is I schedule one to one meetings with each of my employees. And I just use it to get to know them as human people. And so what I believe in those meetings, I mean, we talk about what’s your favorite food, and you know, what’s your favorite music and all that kind of what some would consider surfacey things. But then I get into what’s an accomplishment? You’re the most proud of? What is a fun fact about you? What Yeah, tell me about your Enneagram type of your working genius, and I really take the time to hear their story. I think each person is so fascinating. And when I give them that dedicated hour, where I’m face to face with them, locking eyes with them, I really believe and I pray, Lord, help me to see them the way you see them, because you delight in them, and you’re fascinated by them. And so help me to have a facial expression that reflects that. So that if nobody else in their life or nobody else in their day, sees them that they feel seen by me. Yeah. As a representative of you,
Paige C. Clark 25:04
that’s beautiful. And I think too, like, there might be a tendency to kind of overcomplicate faith in the workplace. But I will say like I had a co worker who, whenever she would message you on Slack, she would just be like, hey, Paige, how are you? Or how’s it going? And she wouldn’t get to the next work thing until I answered. Usually, when we’re sending message, Hey, how’s it going? Can you help me with this? Right, like and going down the list? And really, she started with the human approach. Yeah, and started and kind of doing that and adjusting the mindset, in meetings or on in one on ones where we’re like, okay, human first, work second, right. I think that has a really strong impact on our relationships with people.
Carla H. Hayden 25:57
It really does. And today, in today’s world, you really can’t have enough empathy for people. And you can’t encourage them too much. You know, these are the two things that for me, well, I guess three, excellence, empathy, and encouragement. That’s what I bring to the workplace as an imager of God. And I’m the only female on an all male leadership team in a pretty male dominated industry. And that’s taken some courage and confidence on my part to be fully female. In that space. Yeah. Which looks a lot like nurturing. Yeah. And what I have found is that, even if it’s foreign to them, they want that they want it. And, and so that is just something that I’ve, I’ve had to lean into and rely on God to give me the affirmation for, because in the beginning, I think it feels a little like, Oh, she’s very empathetic, or, wow, she’s really taking the more human approach, you know, and it’s not that the bottom line and the numbers don’t matter. It’s just that data is more than numbers, data is also story. And kind of leaning into that story side of things with people, not just what are you producing? What are you closing? What do you you know, what are you checking off?
Paige C. Clark 27:16
Yeah, and I think too, especially in today’s day and age, with like, being a female in the workplace, I feel like there’s been kind of a trend to have to match your male counterparts, instead of stepping into what you into your fullness as a woman?
Carla H. Hayden 27:38
Yes, I agree with that.
Paige C. Clark 27:40
I feel like that’s like, that’s exactly what you’re saying of like, it doesn’t look the same. And the fact that you are more nurturing and more, I guess, humanizing isn’t a sign of weakness, it’s a sign of fullness in your femininity, or whatever you want to call it. And that’s how you’re called to lead.
Carla H. Hayden 28:03
It’s true. It’s true. And we all have the same objectives that we have to meet as a company, right? But the way that we get there could be different. And so again, it goes back to aligning with that company’s values, aligning with how they want to get to the end, that’s really important for me, like in an interview process, those are the things I’m I’m vetting before I take a job, you know, before accepting an assignment is, you know, like, does this is this going to compromise who I am first and foremost, as a Christian? Secondly, is there a place for me here do Are they really going to allow me to be fully me? Yeah, and all that that means?
Paige C. Clark 28:46
Yeah, and I think for I mean, I can’t really speak for the male listeners out there. But I from, from what I’ve experienced, good kind of stewardship of your mail. And this in the workplace, looks a lot like strong and thoughtful leadership, in terms of setting the tone for meetings or for conversations on that level, and then also extending, I, I’ve experienced a lot of like, the males extending equal ground in a meeting, if that makes sense. Yeah, of like giving everyone a voice at the table. It might not be weighted equally in their minds, but the good leaders I’ve seen have accounted for all the voices in the room.
Carla H. Hayden 29:35
Right? Well, and again, it goes back to walking in excellence in your job, your work is going to speak for itself. So male or female, if you’re not doing a great job. Yes, it you’re going to have a really difficult time gaining the respect of your leadership. But if you’re if you’re doing a good job that’s noticed, especially in this day and age, so
Paige C. Clark 29:59
yeah, so So interesting. And I think there’s just like, again, we’re gonna have to have another conversation about male and female energies in the workplace and how to step into that, because that’s a whole
Carla H. Hayden 30:12
other thing. That’s a whole nother conversation as
Paige C. Clark 30:16
a few conversations.
Carla H. Hayden 30:19
Back up could be season three.
Paige C. Clark 30:20
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So stepping into your assignment, how would one know what their assignment is?
Carla H. Hayden 30:29
That’s a really great question. I, I can’t speak for everyone I know, for me, it has, it has kind of felt and manifested very similarly from from assignment to assignment. And usually it starts with some type of level of discomfort. And I can liken it to, you know, I’ve had three kids, it’s, it’s when you first start feeling those contractions, you’re like, you know, they don’t just come on suddenly, you know, like sharp shooting pain, it’s more of like, a little bit, that doesn’t feel so good. You know, but but you’re still breathing. Okay, you’re walking around, you’re carrying on with life. Yeah. And then it increases over time. And so when I start to experience that, it’s really, it’s, again, it’s an invitation from God into a conversation, like, what’s happening here. And usually, his response to me is like, just start noticing, just start paying attention. You know, and usually, after that, there will be emails that might come from people I haven’t talked to in a while, or, you know, things that might surface random things, podcasts, billboards, like, whatever, where you’re just like, interesting, I’m seeing two or three of the same type of thing, what’s happening. So it’s really just following the breadcrumbs. But for me, it’s, it’s that fanciness, that like level of discomfort, first, it’s having a conversation with God of like, okay, it’s happening. But for anyone who has ever birth to humans, you know, labor could be an hour, it could be a day, like you don’t know, you know, so just because you’re feeling that, I would encourage people, just that initial feeling doesn’t mean turn in your two weeks notice the next day, it’s just an invitation of like, Oh, something is stirring. And so my encouragement in those seasons is like, just stay focused, stay focused, and stay faithful on your job on your assignment, your current assignment, until you actually no. And then things start to open up doors usually start to open up, or I’ll put my feelers out and just say, hey, you know, I might, I might be back on the market soon. If you happen to know of anybody that could use my skills, my experience, let me know, and we’ll just see. Because even when a new assignment is given, like I think about David, like he was anointed king, and then stayed in the, in the, in the shepherd role for many years. Yeah. And so I think, you know, we just there’s, there’s a level of understanding the timing of God and things.
Paige C. Clark 33:02
Yeah, yeah, I made a pretty big, I guess, slightly traumatic job change last year. And if anyone wants to go watch my video of like, my current state of mind, it’s on my LinkedIn where I posted a very, like, I probably would not have posted that today. Where I’m like, Is my sweatshirt no makeup on, it was like, 11pm. I was like, highly emotional, but like sitting in my closet talking about, like, how, how I could be really upset about what was happening at work, but also at the same time, God’s peace, and that was so overwhelming. And that was the first time I have ever experienced, like, a peace beyond all understanding.
Carla H. Hayden 33:53
I’m so glad that you said that. Because that really is a big part of this for me. You know, I, I follow the piece, not the paper. So for me, sometimes my assignments have seemed like a step back in my career. In some cases, they’ve been a, a cut and pay or a reduction in responsibility. And, you know, I think, from a from a worldly human standpoint, it’s like, You’re going the wrong direction. You need to go up the ladder. And what I’ve said is, I my career has been less climbing a corporate ladder and more scaling a rock wall, like sometimes you’re moving just laterally, sometimes you’re going down and then back up. Sometimes you’re, you know, kind of taking two or three steps at a time just because you happen to get some good footing. And so yeah, I would say like, follow the piece. Don’t follow the paper.
Paige C. Clark 34:52
Gosh, that’s good, Carla. And I mean, it’s true and funny enough like I Um, my husband has since I guess, like, repented of his mindset and this in that season, but like, I was like Zen, I was good. I was like, God, you got this? Yeah. And he could not chill with it. He was like, so uneasy in it. And I was like, no, like, it’s fine. Like, but when is it going to be fine? I’m like, I don’t know, God knows, I don’t know. But it was funny to see like a really clear kind of black and white version of like, the two sides of the coin that can happen have like, he was following the paper in that regard of like, Hey, you don’t have another job. You can’t quit it. And I was like, no, like, that’s what God’s telling me to do. So it kind of like makes sense. And yeah. And going down that path.
Carla H. Hayden 35:52
Absolutely. And there is a world in which having other mature believers speak into that pray with you through it, you know, and just getting that confirmation. Another thing that for me has God has been so gracious to provide is I get an assignment Scripture before every new assignment. Wow. And I get to hold on to that in the transition phase. Because oftentimes, it’s not as clear cut is like, you’re done here. And now you’re going there there is there’s a phase there’s kind of like a pre during a post. Yeah. And so being reminded in those shakier times of like, I make the right decision, and having the actual word of God, that I can speak over myself, pray over myself put on a post it all the things he has given me one in every job in every assignment I’ve had since 2015. Wow. Yeah, that’s beautiful.
Paige C. Clark 36:48
And like something to center yourself on 100%, when like, the times get tough, because like, I feel like there might be the inclination as Christians to be like, Oh, I love my job every single day. And it’s always perfect. And, you know, birds helped me get dressed in the morning, but like, that’s not real. And so difficulty happens. What would you say to someone who’s like, I’m experiencing difficulty in my job? Does that mean I’m in the wrong assignment?
Carla H. Hayden 37:22
Not not typically. I would say that the Bible tells us that we don’t battle against flesh and blood, we battle against spiritual forces. And those forces are actively operating in opposition to us inheriting and possessing all that God has prepared beforehand for us to walk in. And so sometimes that difficulty that we’re experiencing, it’s not because we’re doing something wrong. As a matter of fact, it could be because we’re getting closer to stepping into the thing that is right. And I would just remind people that not all stress is bad. There is good stress, like when we think about, you know, people that lift weights, or do you know, weight bearing type workouts, that’s how muscle is built, it’s a breaking down, and then a repairing and rebuilding of those fibers. It’s not always the breaking down. Like we know, like, when it comes to trauma and things it’s like too much too soon, you know, that so we’re not, we’re not talking about chronic stress, we’re just talking about difficulties, inconveniences, pressure, it’s not always bad. It’s, it’s sometimes for our good and for our benefit. And when I think about that I think about well, then what is true in the body is also true for our souls and our spirits that sometimes God does allow us to walk through those hard and heavy times, because he’s using it as a season of training and preparation and strengthening because he knows what’s coming up next for us. And he is actively wanting us to get the reward. He’s actively wanting us to take on greater levels of responsibility. And that’s his way of preparing us for it. And so, you know, again, follow the piece, not the paper, you know, if if it’s hard, but you have that undeniable peace about it, then press in because that’s you’re actually being prepared for something great. upside.
Paige C. Clark 39:22
Yeah. And I think once you step into kind of like meditation with God and like with his word, you grow in discernment around God pushing you in a different direction. And then like earthly and spiritual forces pulling you are trying to create a divide. It does feel very different. Yeah. And a lot of it does. Yeah, and a lot of the times I think like where I’m like, Okay, I was a candidate to like, Okay, if I have to ask like, is this God, it’s probably not God. Like, is When I when I got married, I go, how did I know my husband was the right person? Because I didn’t even have to consider is this the right person? I just I just knew it was the right person for me to marry. And so when it comes to God, like, if I have to question like, is this God pulling me in this direction? It’s probably not.
Carla H. Hayden 40:20
Yeah, yeah.
Paige C. Clark 40:21
So you’ve been mentioning a lot about faithfulness in your assignment? What does that mean, to be faithful in your assignment? And not just to do it?
Carla H. Hayden 40:34
Yeah, I think it, I kind of take it back to what I had mentioned a little bit earlier about David, you know, David was a shepherd, first and foremost, and God was using that season of his life seasons of his life to not only strengthen him physically, but to prepare him for how to lead. He was leading actual sheep. And then he was leading the sheep of Israel. And I think about that, because, again, he got anointed, and then it was like, All right, you got to go back to work the next day, you know, and so even if in your heart or in your mind, God’s given you a picture of where you could be or what you could do, whether it’s in your nine to five or your side, hustle, or whatever, you still have today, you still have the work for today that you need to put your hands to. And so faithfulness looks like inviting God in and asking him, how do you want me to partner with you today? What are you doing in your kingdom in the lives of the people that I work with? Or even in my household? And and how do you want me to partner with you in those things? And sometimes that’s send a really well crafted email. And sometimes it’s take a coworker to lunch and listen, and sometimes it’s, you know, yeah, exactly, I could look like a lot of different things, it could look like good craftsmanship. You know, if you’re in the blue collar field, I mean, it’s going to look like that it’s going to look differently for different people. But what it is going to look like is recognizing that we do have a master that is coming back. And that is going to hold us to account for the things that have been entrusted to us, you know, I think about the parable of the talents. And whether you have been given one or five or 10, you have to live in accordance with what you’ve been given. If you’re highly talented and skilled and gifted. You can’t be lazy about that. Because God has gifted you with those things. For other people, the gift isn’t for you, you know, when a tree bears fruit, it’s not for the trees benefit, it’s for others to enjoy. It’s the same thing with the gifts that God’s given us. So whether you’re a writer or a singer, or you’re an executive, or you’re a construction worker, whatever that looks like, the gifts and the skills and the talents and the experience that God has allowed you to have are actually for the benefit of others. He uses it to benefit you in exchange through your paycheck and your benefits and all that kind of good stuff. But faithfulness looks like recognizing that you’re playing a part in God’s plan, and, and recognizing that you going to work every day that there isn’t just the work. There’s the work beneath the work. Yeah, that he’s inviting you into.
Paige C. Clark 43:38
Yeah, and I feel like, at least it’s true for me when I was kind of going through like the high school college phase where I was like, What does God want for my life? Kind of what we were talking about the beginning of like, this existential question. And I felt like there was a lot of it might have been self imposed pressure, I don’t even want to say cultural pressure, it was probably just my brain. Like that I kind of realized that got stuck in the mentality that like, if I wasn’t in ministry, then I’m not building the kingdom. And I feel like that’s the furthest thing for for like, from the truth because what what you’re saying is like, it’s not always just about like, what tangible things you’re doing for the kingdom, right? Yeah, because there’s, God works in other like a crazy amount of ways and, and I had a one of the members of my small group she even said, like, God might have had you just for that one. He might have had you there just for the one and if your whole life, you were in that job, and it was just for that one time, and that’s worth it. And that was like whoa, like that took me like, took my breath away. cuz I’m like, man like that is like one, can he do more than one? Of course he can’t. He’s got he can do whatever he wants. But like, maybe it was like a humbling moment of like, maybe I’m just being called to serve one person in my job. And everything that I’m doing is leading up to that moment, or maybe has like, already that moments already passed. And I’m kind of on the tail end of that. Yeah, it’s humbling.
Carla H. Hayden 45:32
It’s very humbling. And I think about the scripture in Matthew six that talks about that. God sees what you do in the secret place. And he rewards you openly. And I hope that that comes to bear upon people not as like, you know, but more of like, even when you feel like what does it matter, like, my boss isn’t even noticing that I’m, you know, spending the extra five minutes proofreading this email or you know, whatever that is. But God sees it. God sees everything. He sees the posture of your heart towards your work. So even if externally, you’re doing a good job, he’s also seeing the posture of your heart that your desire to love other people, your desire to serve Him and image him in that way. It it all counts, it all matters. And it’s all it’s all going to be worth it in the end. Yeah,
Paige C. Clark 46:31
yeah. I worked at a summer camp one year and they called it bumped the lamp. And like that was the going above and beyond and doing things with excellence was called bumping the lamp. Because here’s a bit of a throwback. The Who Framed Roger Rabbit up. And there’s a scene where Roger Rabbit and I can’t remember the main character’s name are like wrestling and tussling and getting into it and like this back storage room. And Roger hits the lamp, and the lamp swings, but the lamp was on. And they had to they spent hundreds of hours re animating that scene to get the light to swing over the scene. Right? This was back before like, really advanced animation was happening. And it was all because Roger bumped the lamp. And so every time I hear like go that extra little mile do the things with excellence. It’s just a bump the lamp. But no one would ever see that in this film. Now no one ever thinks of that Glee, and it’s not recognized. Gotcha, yes.
Carla H. Hayden 47:40
Why I fun fact about me, I read from cover to cover books, I read the acknowledgments section, I read the dedication section, I watch the credits on a movie. And even if I can’t read all those names, I do sit in awe at like, it took this many people like this isn’t. It’s not just the lead actor or actress, it’s not just the name on the front of the book cover that, you know, the author, it’s many, many, many people contributing to that work coming to fruition. And sometimes the contribution is, you know, thank you so so for watching my kids or for you know, for cooking dinner while I went in my hole to write or whatever. And I just think about that. So, you know, we’re gonna be on, we’re gonna be on credit scenes all over the place, and we don’t even know it. And so
Paige C. Clark 48:33
that, gosh, that’s beautiful. I actually I’ve thought very similar things with the credits and movies because I’m like, wow, it might not mean a lot to me. It probably meant the world to this person, and this person and this person and this person, and their parents and their parents and their grandma and grandpa and maybe their kids one day. Funny enough, my husband he had to get he’s a trademark lawyer. And so one of his clients had like a trademark problem with a in a movie. And so at the at the end of the credits in one of the one of these movies, it says like so and so is a trademark of Abba and my husband’s like, I made that happen. I was like, I felt so proud. I was like, Okay, so like, this is just like a little disclaimer at the end of the movie, let alone like people who work on the sound and the the props and the wardrobe and all.
Carla H. Hayden 49:35
It all matters. It all matters.
Paige C. Clark 49:37
It all matters. Well, gosh, you got into a lot of it. But I have a feeling I know what you’re going to say but I want to give you the opportunity to actually say it and add anything else you want to say. But what is something that our listeners can do to implement a faith building discipline or practice into their life or their work? work life, like this week as they’re listening to this?
Carla H. Hayden 50:03
Yeah, I mean, I would say, schedule your time with God, you know, have a daily quiet time, if you’re not a morning person, you’re not a morning person, but have a daily time with the Lord. And I really encourage people who, you know, maybe don’t have one yet to schedule it in your calendar, the way that you would a meeting, or an appointment, because that’s what it is it the living God wants to meet with you. He wants to share his heart with you. He wants to bring healing to you by speaking truth over places where lies, you know, might be residing, he wants to be able to share his heart with you for not only you, but for the people that you’re encountering in your job, and it’s going to be the most transformative meeting of your day. So make the time for it. And so I would just say that, and then, as I kind of mentioned earlier, read scripture out loud, like read it with your out loud voice. And even if it’s just, you know, if you’re in a place where you don’t have a lot of space, and there’s other people there, even just reading it out loud under your breath. There’s power in that. And so yeah, I would just say schedule your time with God. And read the word within your out loud voice and
Paige C. Clark 51:22
have it in your coffee with Carla so you can have like coffee with God. It’s your one on one time with God.
Carla H. Hayden 51:28
It is I have it. It’s been in like it’s literally in my calendar. And it’s just a recurring appointment every single day. You don’t have to reschedule it. I don’t I it’s every day even when I’m on vacation like that. That’s how I start my day.
Paige C. Clark 51:41
Yeah. Oh, that’s beautiful. Carla, thank you so much. And we will talk again. I’m like ready to dig into some of these things that we didn’t have time for today. But where can people find you?
Carla H. Hayden 51:53
Well, they can connect with me on Instagram. I’m at Coffee underscore with underscore Carla. And also on LinkedIn. I’m at Carla H. Hayden on LinkedIn.
Paige C. Clark 52:04
Lovely, thank you so much, Carla, for joining us and we’ll catch you next time. Sounds great. Thanks. Good. Thanks for joining us. If you liked what you were listening to make sure you subscribe and hit those five stars and we’ll catch you on the next episode.
