9 to 5 Faith Podcast: Episode 27

Paige C. Clark 00:41
Welcome, welcome, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the nine to five faith podcast. I am very, very excited to bring my new friend Sam on the podcast. He is a man of many hats when he was talking to me. I was like, dang, you do a lot. And I can relate to that. Sam, how are you doing today?

Samuel Sanestin 01:02
It was very well, thank you so much for having me.

Paige C. Clark 01:05
Now tell us about your hats. And then also tell us about which one is your favorite to wear?

Samuel Sanestin 01:11
Wow, are you making me do the hard thing. So I try to be as multifaceted as possible. During the week, I am a director of business for our financial firm here in Grand Rapids, Michigan, where I live. I’m also an associate pastor. So I’m, I’m usually doing that on the weekends, preaching, singing, leading with the youth outreach, the whole nine yards with that. I’m a life coach as well. My co host my own podcast called the NOC called the next drop off. And yeah, I guess those are just some of the few things that I’m involved in. And my favorite Wow. Wow, that is really that’s really hard. Um,

Paige C. Clark 02:03
it depends on who’s listening to this, right? Like our people for that case, associate pastor, if your boss is going to be listening to this, your favorite thing is work.

Samuel Sanestin 02:15
Oh, man. They’re also nice. And they’re also also great. But I would have to say probably my role as a director of business is probably my favorite. Yeah, probably my Yeah, probably my favorite role.

Paige C. Clark 02:30
For sure. I understand it though. Because like you, I wear many hats. And I always say like, I work full time in marketing. And I like to save. That’s what I’m good at. Like, I am good at working more in marketing. But that’s not what God has put me on this earth to do or to make impact. And so like, I’m good at marketing, but I also like my writing and my podcasting is what God has put me on this earth for. So they’re different in their own unique ways. So I definitely understand that. So tell me a little bit more about oh, you froze there for a second? Are you with me?

Samuel Sanestin 03:12
Yes, I am. I’m sorry. I was somebody was trying to call me I had to send it the voicemail.

Paige C. Clark 03:18
That’s okay. Um, so tell me a little bit more about the Director of Business and the financial firm and all of that good stuff.

Samuel Sanestin 03:27
Yeah. So, um, in the, you know, it’s interesting, because I was never, ever, ever, ever planning to enter into business into the financial services space. You know, when I graduated high school, I just told myself, you know, I’m gonna study to be a pastor, and I’ll study like, health on the side, I’ll get a minor of health, just to sneak that in there. And that’s it. And, um, I don’t know, you know, as I was, as you know, time started progressing. I really wanted to get the opportunity to grow myself professionally. I really saw a need for it in my own and my own life. And I saw that, you know, that’s a ministry in itself. And yeah, it all just kind of happened. You know, one thing kind of led to another I found myself, you know, in the property and casualty world at Allstate last year. And when this position opened up at some in my town, I just applied for it to see what would happen and I didn’t think I’d get the positions. I didn’t fit so many of the requirements. I didn’t have a finance I didn’t have a degree in finance or in business as it Yeah, you don’t have an arts degree. You don’t have a pastoral degree like, Okay, well, that’s different. But you know, I’m so thankful to the Lord that I’m here. He He allowed me to enter into the space. And yeah, so I’m currently in this role I’ve been in this role for about the past 11 months. So currently, yeah, so thank you so much. Currently, with what I do, I work with various financial advisors that we have within the firm. So the more public name of the firm is retirement lifestyle advocates. That’s what that’s that’s the name. We go by whenever we’re dealing with clients, people that are interested in and receiving our services. We’re in the retirement planning space specifically. But the side of the firm that I oversee is called Rocket production systems. That’s where with our proprietary proprietary throw, oh, man,

Paige C. Clark 05:48
I can’t praise Harry.

Samuel Sanestin 05:51
Oh, mercy, it’s been a long day. But yeah, with our model that we have, we advertise it out to various financial advisors, and we help with different advisors with marketing, book production, precious metals. client retention, oh, yeah, the whole nine yards. Really.

Paige C. Clark 06:14
I love that. I love that. And that is very foreign to me. But I absolutely relate. I always joke around, but it’s like, actually, like, secretly really true. The reason why I wasn’t a business get my undergrad in business versus communications is I didn’t have to take econ or statistics. Like that is the reason why I didn’t go through the business school. And I went through the liberal arts school is to avoid those classes.

Samuel Sanestin 06:41
Well, I mean, it still it still worked out. I mean, you were able to kind of maneuver around it. And you’re where you want it to be.

Paige C. Clark 06:46
Yeah, exactly. But there was like a degree in marketing. It was funny. The degree in marketing was from the business school. And the degree in communications was in the liberal arts school, which they’re very much similar is like communications is a function of marketing. But anyways, yeah, I totally relate with like the just being kind of out a little bit of a fish out of water, because I avoided that path. Like it was nobody’s business.

Samuel Sanestin 07:12
Oh, my.

Paige C. Clark 07:14
Now you said something really interesting that I kind of like want to pick at and I don’t know, if you’ve realized that you said this. But you said that you felt a need to develop, to develop yourself professionally. Can you talk more about that, and what that looks like? Because throughout everyone that I’ve talked to on the podcast, I feel like that there’s a wide variety of people and in their relationship, their like interpersonal relationship with their job, and with what they do. So can you share a little bit more about like, what that need felt like? And like, why you felt like it was maybe a missing piece of your of your story in the season?

Samuel Sanestin 08:00
Yeah, for sure. Um, wow, that’s a really good question. Well, I guess just to answer that, well, okay, so this might come out wrong, but it’s funny. I was. So this reminds me of a conversation I was having with my co host the other day. And usually, I’m the guy with the ideas and the planning and like, I’m like, I’m like really detail oriented. And he’s the guy who was like, you know, he, you know, he handles like, the tech stuff in terms of like, editing the podcast and stuff, but, you know, something that I was really no, getting out of mind is like, hey, you know, we need to outsource the podcast editing on to somebody else. And we were looking for somebody on Fiverr and that, you know, they will thankfully we found somebody and he was saying like, hey, like they need to be Christian because I don’t want unholy hands touching and he was like, okay, that’s reasonable. That’s reasonable. Yeah, I’ll take care of the details. I’ll take care of it. And you know, we found somebody and you know, it was so funny and you know, as I was sending him different people though, just to look at on fiber using and there aren’t a lot of reviews and x y and z and and he’ll and you know, some and I was like wait what’s really like what’s really like the thing you’re getting at like you said, you want to hold the hands to touch it but what’s going on these night? And basically like the synopsis of all of that is unfortunately many times when it comes to like the Christian space there’s like it’s really bad but sometimes just like an automatic decrease in quality. I don’t know if you I don’t know if you’ve noticed that.

Paige C. Clark 09:42
I I know what you mean, I get Yeah, like we’re I like my brain immediately goes back to like those really cheesy Jesus films in the 90s Yeah, like that’s where my brain goes.

Samuel Sanestin 09:55
Yes. Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly it. You know? The, you know, the cheesy or corny, like, you know, VeggieTales kind of, you know, that sort of feeling. And it’s like, oh, man, but and, and, you know, that’s, that’s kind of the that’s kind of the sense I was getting like for myself personally, like, I felt like, you know, I went to Bible school, I learned, you know how to really dig down, dig deep into the word, I learned how to present, you know, the truths of the Bible in a way that’s practical and relatable. But at the same time, I feel like there was a lot of administrative skills that I didn’t really have, in terms of, you know, working with a team building a team, casting a vision, you know, assisting like really helping others, like, you know, built being able to be built up, like, I guess, like, the essence of professional discipleship is what I was missing. And I felt like, man, you know, I need to get some hands on experience in the professional world, in order to have this translate into what I want my ministry to look like. So I guess that was like my mind.

Paige C. Clark 11:10
I love that I using that I get what you were. You’re totally saying like, I pictured it. I saw it. And I think Do you know the comedian? Angela Johnson?

Samuel Sanestin 11:23
I do not.

Paige C. Clark 11:24
She’s like, okay, so she’s, she’s a Christian. And then she’s a stand up comedian. And she goes, I’m a comedian, who’s Christian, but I’m not a Christian comedian. And like, the difference between those two things in terms of like, you have like people like John Chris, who is definitely like, a Christian community and where he like, you know, pokes fun at like, the church and Christianity and faith and all that stuff. But then, like, her stuff is not like that at all. And so she was saying, like, there’s the difference there. And I think that’s kind of what you’re going to a little bit is like, there needs to be like, not everything is, is just ministry. Like we need to have Christians in the workforce. Doing Business as Christians, not Christian business.

Samuel Sanestin 12:15
Hmm. Wow, that was like, Man, that was that man. Wow, that was a holy ghost bar. That hit like the nail on the head. Wow. Wow.

Paige C. Clark 12:25
That’s, that’s what I’m hearing from you. So you know, I just asked the translator. Um, but yeah, I totally agree of like, we need more. Not only business owners who run ethical businesses, which is what I’m like attempting to tackle in season two of this series, so TBD, hang tight on that. But we also need Christians in the workplace. To kind of develop that and be the hands and feet in the real world.

Samuel Sanestin 12:58
Wow, for sure, for sure.

Paige C. Clark 13:01
And I hear what you’re saying too, about kind of like the organizational piece to Fun fact, this is the first time I’m bringing it up on any podcast, surprise, surprise, this is the first time I’m talking about it somewhat publicly. But I am actually releasing a program that is going to help solve what you were just saying about is the issue of I call it soft skills for everyday experiences. And it’s going to be it’s going to be called be a better person. And it’s going to be those those softer skills that you’re talking about, like vision, casting, and accountability, and communication and leadership, all those skills that aren’t necessarily taught in any kind of forum.

Samuel Sanestin 13:50
Oh, wow. That’s, that’s all great. Like, as you’re saying that I would have just got a picture of this in my mind. It’s so ridiculous. Like, yeah, and, you know, it’s, I don’t know. And thankfully, I feel like there’s a shift. But as of late, I feel like more people are starting to get that sort of understanding. But I’m just thinking, like, you know, the old school, like the real old garb of Christianity, where it’s like, you know, oh, you know, we need to put plans together. We need, you know, Excel sheets, and we need Word documents and things like that. And you have one and you just have, you know, the Christians where it’s like, I don’t know how to do that I can have like a mean word of prayer, like, you know, I can offer a song or I can give a Bible study, like, that’s great, but we need you know, we need development in these other areas. And, you know, wow, I think what you’re doing is really great. I think a lot of people

Paige C. Clark 14:50
Yeah, and I think too, like there’s examples luckily enough, I go to like a pretty large church. It’s not a mega church, but it’s a pretty like establish big church. And what I really love is, you know, a lot of the times you have people who, and you have ministries that are ministry focused, if I like, you’re like, obviously, a volunteer, sorry, you have volunteer opportunities that are ministry focused, and not necessarily practically focused, which, which is what I’m hearing from you have like that, like, you know, but, but administration is one of the spiritual gifts. And so like, Oh, my God has done that I really appreciate is like, there’s a guy who runs a landscaping company. And he comes in, like, for a day with his whole crew for like, doesn’t charge the church anything and comes and do does the landscaping on the property. And I’m like, that is not like sing songs and children’s ministries, but it’s, you know, it’s something a little bit more practical, like within the Excel spreadsheet realm of everything. And I think that all of those gifts can be utilized for the Kingdom. Definitely. So you wear many hats, which makes it sound like you have very busy days and weeks now. Also, if you don’t mind sharing, share a little bit like, are you married? Do you have kids? Because I also think that radically changes this conversation that’s going to happen.

Samuel Sanestin 16:28
It does. I am thankfully single as a Pringle. So I am very grateful. I’m grateful for that gift that the Lord has given me.

Paige C. Clark 16:38
Gotcha, gotcha. Okay. Because, you know, it, it, it changes things, like having a spouse changes things, and I don’t have kids yet, but like, I have heard rumor on the block is, is that kids change things a lot. So I always kind of like to set that foundation. So you kind of don’t like I mean, I say it this way, but like, correct me if I’m like, misinterpreting it, but like, you kind of don’t have to report to anyone, like you kind of live on your own like, like you live on your own timetable. Yeah, you’re right, you’re right. I get it. I get it. Yeah. Like, I can’t just like go out and be like, okay, by me, like, you’re on your own for dinner, like Sorry, I’m going out, like on this unplanned thing. You have that freedom to be able to do that as well. I’m saying,

Samuel Sanestin 17:27
Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. You know, it’s, but you have a lot more opportunities. When you’re when you’re single as opposed that’s when you are in a relationship. But I mean, it’s a different season. It’s a different season. So yeah,

Paige C. Clark 17:40
for sure. But leaving that into take me through like what a day a week in the life of Sam looks like kind of through that lens and through the lens of like you wearing many hats.

Samuel Sanestin 17:54
Oh my Wow. Wow. That’s that’s that okay. That’s, that’s good question. Well, okay, so this, my week is definitely going to sound very different from probably yours and a lot of people that are listening to this, but I attempt to start my days at 3am. Yeah.

Paige C. Clark 18:22
Yeah. Hey, Mark Wahlberg, whatever.

Samuel Sanestin 18:27
Not even like the off on. It’s not. It’s not even like it’s not even like that. It’s just that I don’t know, I’ve tried my schedule so many different ways. But this just seems to be the way that works for me. Yeah, let’s hear. I’m excited. Oh, okay. So I usually wake up at 3am. I go to the gym at Planet Fitness when it’s empty. I work out for about maybe an hour and a half to two hours, depending on what I’m doing. I’m usually back home by 5am From there I am. From there I am, you know, just getting ready for the day, whatever I have to do. I’m reading my Bible, making sure I spend you know my time in prayer. So that’s usually like for an hour. I have breakfast, and then by around like 637 o’clock, I’m getting ready for work. I’m at work usually by by 8am.

Paige C. Clark 19:17
Right there. Do you work in an office or work remote?

Samuel Sanestin 19:20
I work in an office. Okay. Okay. Can Yeah, yeah, I work in an office with other coworkers. So, um, so yeah. And so I’m usually at work from eight to five and huge and my days look different when I’m at work. So most days, I’m just pretty like, in my office, you know, calls, a lot of, you know, Zoom meetings, and sometimes I have to meet with clients, but that’s neither here or there. But I’m usually doing that I’m usually on the phone most of the day, kind of, you know, talking about these different financial advisors that are spread out throughout the US By talking to them or to the publishing team or with marketing or just, you know, different colleges that we’re trying to do seminars after that, it’s, it’s a lot and and so usually when I get out of work at five, I’m back home by about 535 45. And, yeah, my time when I’m back home looks very different. I mean, so I have a, like a process scheduled for my day. But just because I’m wearing one hat during the week doesn’t mean my other hats come off. Right? Like, like, for example, you know, on Mondays that Monday nights and Wednesday nights, I’m, you know, meeting with my co hosts, you know, we’re planning for our podcasts, we’re doing all that. Sometimes, when a young person from my church might need counsel, they might need to talk to me about something. So I might have to schedule visitation, I might have to meet with them. Like, for example, last night, I had, well, not last night night, but yesterday in the evening, I had to meet with a young person, talk about a situation they were going through at home. Just hearing them counseling them. So it’s really like, wherever I can fit in, like the little things here and there. That’s usually you know, where they fall. And that’s usually my life Monday through Friday. And, and Friday, do Saturday, oh, man, it’s just, I almost had a nightmare. But I don’t mean that in a bad way. But I mean that in the most sincere way as possible, if it can even be taken that way. So Fridays, I usually get out of work at 12. So they’re nice. That’s nice. But somehow, my, my time isn’t that never for myself on board. But that’s just part of the part of it. So usually, there’s youth group at 630 to 830. There’s coordinating rides, more than so I’m usually on the road by 435 o’clock. I’m usually back at home by maybe 930 10 o’clock. And then there’s church the next day. So on Sundays, they haven’t so I go to church on Saturday. And so I’m, you know, I’m out all day from 8am to sometimes 8pm. So there’s church, doing the service at one church Jumping over to another one, and then there’s outreach with the kids. And then there’s doing visitations after that, and all of that, and I didn’t mention this, but I’m actually going for my MBA, so on Sunday, those are like my way cram, study, do assignments read, try to catch up from not doing homework, like from the previous days of the week. So those are my Sundays and then

Paige C. Clark 23:03
repeat. Pretty much sounds crazy. I mean, but I but I hear Yeah, I mean, yeah, every day looks really different. And but it’s also like, your regular go to route there is some routine, you know, within that. I tried the whole 3am 4am workout thing. Okay, yeah, this is what happened though, to me, is I would wake up and people are like, how do you do this? I’m like, I don’t know, ask my body because like, Paige has no control over this. So I’d wake up, I’d be able to go I would like go to the gym, do a full gym session. Like I’m not, you know, cutting corners or anything. During my workout, I’ll go hard, but I’ll come home and I’ll shower and then I’ll crawl back in bed and fall back asleep. No. I don’t know how to not do that. Because if I don’t, if I don’t fall back asleep, then then I’ll fall asleep around like eight or 10 like eight or 10 in the morning. I’ll just like fall back asleep even. Like, even if I get like, even if I go to bed at like 8pm And I’m like getting full. Like, you know, a lot of time for my sleep. If I wake up that early. I will fall back. It’s like no matter what I do in the morning. Oh, Mercy. Wow. which some of you are like you’re working out? How do you like, how are you still tired after that? I’m out. Oh,

Samuel Sanestin 24:30
it’s possible. I get it, I get it.

Paige C. Clark 24:34
But I applaud you for that discipline because I have tried that much to not non success. So shifting gears a little bit. It sounds like you know, you’re very very active and in your church, obviously you’re an associate pastor. But like with with the youth and all of that work, you know, that definitely can comes with its own kind of time and energy commitment. How do you make sure you have enough energy? Or how do you source that energy from God to be able to sustain yourself? Through all of those things?

Samuel Sanestin 25:18
That is a very good question. Oh, my Wow. Yeah, that’s a very good question. Because, yeah, burnout is very real. And I have definitely experienced that before many times. But, um, I guess, a big part of it is, is really recognizing myself and at any particular moment, like how I’m feeling, what are my thoughts? Like, what am I what are my inclinations, like, at the present moment, and also being intentional. I like I like to think of it as, as a well. And oftentimes, the Bible uses various illustrations with Wells and water and things of that nature. But, you know, I, you know, I just imagined that, you know, if somebody’s asking me for, for, for a drink, you know, like the story in John For, you know, with us, American woman, if somebody’s asking me for a drink from, you know, a well that I own, you know, I, you know, I’ll get the bucket in there, and I’ll get the water and I’ll pour it into their cup, you but you know, even though I’m getting it from a, you know, that particular Well, at that particular place, you know, there has to be a larger source where water can flow into, and, you know, so that my well can have access, and I like to think of my relationship with God. In a very similar manner, I can’t give other people something that I don’t have. And, you know, I’ve tried it before, and it doesn’t work. And I tried it again, and it doesn’t work, you know, my own way, our own way doesn’t work. And so something that I think is really important to keep in mind is that if somebody’s lacking, and oftentimes somebody’s wanting advice, somebody’s wanting counsel support, somebody’s wanting to be comforted, somebody was wanting direction, leadership, discipleship. And that involves a lot of time, energy, but it also involves a lot of, it involves a lot of spiritual maturity, if I can say it, that way, people are wanting something tangible, and I can’t just give them you know, a quick word from Sam, because, you know, my words will, my my words will easily fade away, you know, in the next five seconds, but if I’m giving people direct access to an experience that I’m having with Jesus, you know, on a daily, consistent basis, then that changes everything that changes the whole game, right? Because, you know, I may be tired, and I may be, you know, exhausted and maybe feel on my robes end on a particular day. But if I’m connected to Jesus, if I’m connected to him, If I’m continually receiving, you know, water from him, if I’m continually receiving, you know, the, the gift of the, you know, the Holy Spirit in my life, and if that’s no flowing out through others, I find that that’s a very helpful way to help sustain that sort of process.

Paige C. Clark 28:28
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I love that imagery of just the well, and just kind of tapping into that. Do you feel like you working kind of in the role that you’re working at, helps you relate in a better slash different way to the congregation that you serve?

Samuel Sanestin 28:56
Oh, definitely, definitely. Yes. Yes. I definitely feel i i 1,000%. That is the case. And the reason why and, oh, mercy, and this just goes back to like what we were talking about earlier with, you know, the old guard, like, you know, oh, you know, we’re gonna have a revival series at church and, you know, we need a player and, you know, like, a lot of people that are in ministry, or volunteer, you know, they’re there a lot of okay, not many of them now. Okay. I don’t want to say this as if everybody in ministry is like, lazy and only does stuff on on weekends. Oh, yeah. That’s not what I’m saying. But a lot of them, you know, don’t know what it’s like to add a nine to five job, a lot of them don’t know what it feels like to, you know, go to work all week and then come home and deal with stuff at home. And then by the time it’s the weekend, the off the temptation of I’m tired. I feel I want to stay in bed or skip church. Yeah, you know, a lot of ministers, a lot of volunteers, a lot of people in ministry don’t understand what you know, that feels like. And I feel like with me being in this position of being at a nine to five, well, at a eight to five, but being at a full time job, and being involved in ministry on the weekends, it’s like, wow, I’m able to kind of see both sides of these specific realms, you know, so it’s interesting. Well, thank

Paige C. Clark 30:32
you for that, because you just justified the entire purpose of this podcast. But But yeah, that was that was like my Inkling in starting this podcast was like that there’s a little bit of a disconnect before between people who serve in full time ministry. And that’s kind of like their job and their occupation. And the rest, I call them normal people. Not that people Minister are not normal, or people does. It’s just different. It’s just a different set of issues and a different set of hardships. I was talking, actually, I think his episode is coming out tomorrow, August 5, when when we’re recording this. But he was saying, like, he drives 50 minutes one way to church, like, they live in a very rural area, and the church home that they found it was 50 minutes away one way. And so I asked him, like, hey, like, what, if anything, what does your church involvement look like? And y’all can go listen to the episode to like, find out the rest. But I feel like, you know, it depends also where you live, like, I live in a very suburban area, and there’s building a new church right up the road for me. But like, for those, for those people who live maybe in a rural area, or that they call their church home, something that is much farther away from them, like, how does that practically look like? And like, how can they be the church in other ways? So I am glad to, I’m glad to, I guess have that affirmed. And in my hunch, from a different perspective, for sure. Now, in what ways do you carry your ministry hat and your associate pastor hat into the workplace? And like, have you had to have you know, are there any struggles with that? Or like, any kind of boundaries that you’ve had to set up for yourself in, in kind of crossing those two lines?

Samuel Sanestin 32:42
Yeah, for sure. Um, well, I guess. Well, I guess I’ll just start off with saying what’s similar. Something that I’ve, that I’ve come to find is that, though, one thing, well, there’s a lot of things but the one thing that really sticks out to me as something that directly parallels a ministry and to business is relationship building. Like at the core, like when we really get down into the weeds, all that ministry is and all that business is like, the essence is relationship building, it’s networking, it’s connecting with people where they’re at. And that’s definitely something that I carry with me, from my experiences as a pastor into the workplace, whether if it’s connecting with my co workers, connecting with prospects, clients, and anybody that I happen to come across anybody that may be on my team, that’s definitely something that I see that, you know, that just directly translates into the current position where I’m at now. And, and another thing is, you know, that’s another thing that just, you know, really goes with that is, I guess some, I don’t necessarily, I don’t want this to come out bad, but I’ll just say, I don’t really like lazy people. I mean, no, I mean, I love everybody, but I don’t like that’s

Paige C. Clark 34:12
my biggest pet peeve. So you’re, you’re in good company here.

Samuel Sanestin 34:15
Okay. Okay. Okay. Sounds good. But, you know, I feel like if we’re given a responsibility to do that, we need to do our best we need to put in the 110% that’s needed to make sure that it gets done. I cannot remember the exact verse but but, you know, there’s somewhere in the Bible where it’s mentioned that, you know, whatever our hands find to do, we need to do it with all of our minds, you know, not, not to, you know, make our name great not to make ourselves great, but you know, and everything in anything that we do, we are to glorify God, whether that’s in church, or whether that’s at work, and it’s really important because now Not only, not it’s only it’s really important not just to do our jobs to the best of our ability, but the reality is, is, you know, there’s a very good chance unless if you are going to win, you know, purposely, hey, I want you to come to church with me this Saturday or this Sunday, unless if you purposely invite somebody to church, more than likely, your co workers aren’t willing probably never stepped into a church and the only exposure that they’re going to have to Jesus to God, to the Word of God to spiritual things is through your witness. And, and, you know, if you’re at work, you know, if there’s a mercy, there’s a saying that, um, I’m not sure if you’ve ever heard the same where, you know, when the sun goes down, and I go down, courtesy, you know, if that’s the sort of mentality that people are having when they’re at work, you know, okay, you know, I, you know, I’m able to empathize with those that work and you want to go to church, but hey, I mean, at the same time, we have a spiritual responsibility. If, you know, if you’re going to church, like, you know, yes, no, well, WaveMaker chain breaker, yeah, amen. But, you know, you go into work Monday through Friday, and you’re Yeah, with, you know, your your co workers like, yeah, Thursday, Thursday, Wednesday, and

Paige C. Clark 36:21
all the rest of it.

Samuel Sanestin 36:22
Yeah, it’s like, wow. So it’s really important to keep a consistent sense of identity, no matter where we’re at. And just getting into what you were wondering about boundaries, boundaries I set up for myself is, you know, I mean, my co workers know that I’m a pastor, they know, I’m an associate pastor. And that doesn’t mean I’m like a Bible from like, you know, either. You either God, no heat up, but you’re living, right, you need to start praying, he needs to go to church, like, you know, that’s, some people aren’t like that, unfortunately. But that’s definitely not my approach with with, you know, with people in general. I just, I make it very intentional to the way that I lived in a way that I speak that people can tell that there’s something different about me, not in my own power, but you know, by the grace of God, of course, and, you know, people notice that I don’t curse, you know, people notice that I don’t I don’t drink. You know, sometimes we have Office gatherings. And it’s like, yeah, let’s get together for the Christmas party. Oh, where’s the eggnog and they’ll spike it or whatever. Yeah, exam doesn’t drink. That’s right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So yeah.

Paige C. Clark 37:39
Do you feel like the way that, like, you just carry yourself? Do you feel like it has inhibited or allowed more people to kind of approach you and like, for you to grow that deeper relationship?

Samuel Sanestin 37:57
I think it’s, I think it’s definitely something that’s definitely assisted me. And it’s definitely worked in my favor only because, you know, I, and I really, I really do think so. Because like, if somebody needs like, for example, if I have a broken leg, I’m not going to ask somebody else that has a broken leg to help me up. Like, we’re just gonna work both of us, we’re just gonna fall back down. Like, there’s no point I need to ask somebody that’s fully healthy, well, healthier than me to help me like, Hey, you with that, you know, you have to work and like, Can you pick me up? Like, like, like, yeah, and they’ll be able to help me. And I bring that up, because, you know, in a world where everybody else seems the same quote, unquote, like, I, there’s a lot of people out here that are living without hope, that are living without a purpose, without a sense of fulfillment. And, you know, in looking around at your social circle, it’s like, man, like, sometimes it can be pretty depressing. It’s like, man, everybody’s just kind of living, you know, and it’s just nobody’s really, you know, living with a purpose. And I’ve had instances where, you know, people recognize that have their own lines, and they come to me because it’s like, you know, you know, like, you’re here, like, they just see me like, Hey, I see you in the same situation that I’m in, but the mindset you may have or the way you’re approaching it just seems completely different. Like, like, what is it? Like, like, what is it that you have that I don’t, and not that I’m so much better than these people? You know, I, I put my pants on one leg at a time, just like anybody else, and I make just as many mistakes as anybody. I’m a very flawed, flawed person. But, um, but I’m thankful that that God’s allowed me to have such situations where I’ve been able to, thankfully be that person that somebody can look to and say, Hey, I need help, or hey, I What What, what’s your take on this? Or what’s your? What are your thoughts on this situation? I’m

Paige C. Clark 40:04
going through? Yeah, yeah. And I think that’s just like a mark of kind of God’s hand and power through everything. Because I, I have noticed that there have been instances where I think of, there’s a scene from an episode in friends, where like Rachel is working, like, has a new job, and her boss and her co worker, they smoke, and Rachel doesn’t smoke. And so they go on, they go on smoke breaks, and they like, leave Rachel out because she doesn’t smoke. And then like, what ends up happening, and I could see where there might be the inclination of humanity, not just like any one person, but there’s the inclination to kind of, you know, with you with what you’re saying, like, I’m a normal person, you know, I’m just, you know, this is just me. There’s the inclination for people who might have a skewed view of Christianity or Christians or, or people who have been hurt by people within the church, there’s the inclination for them to want to kind of hide and shield from that. And so like, it’s really encouraging for me to still see that God overcomes those boundaries that like, are those limitations that humans would would kind of naturally put up?

Samuel Sanestin 41:30
Definitely, definitely. Wow.

Paige C. Clark 41:33
And I mean, I’ve had that happen, like on a on a personal level with my friends of like, they don’t want to tell me things because I’m paged the Christian, but at the end of the day, Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, yeah, it happens, it happens. And so like, it’s, it’s encouraging to see that it is not happening in the workplace. And I think too, like, there’s the more progressive movement of and I mean, I say progressive, really loosely, of just like, you know, acceptance of everyone and, like, everyone’s habits and, and, and, and routines, and like, I just think of like people who practice their faith and, you know, you have your our Muslim, co workers who, who need to take time to pray, or, you know, maybe people who dress a certain way at work and what have you. I feel like there’s a more wide acceptance of people who might engage differently. And I think that has actually worked me possibly. My hunch is that it has worked to the benefit of Christians in the workplace as well, so that there’s not as, I guess, adamant discrimination against them.

Samuel Sanestin 42:55
For sure, wow.

Paige C. Clark 42:58
That was just a hunch. Also, I’m a friends fanatic. I love friends. Of course, that’s what comes to mind. And also, it’s like smoking. Like you could probably get away with that in the 90s, but not so much. Now. I would hope. Probably not. I work for an HR company. So like, all of this is like HR red flags, like, like a jar will be coming to you. I heard okay, this is such an aside, it has nothing to do with what we’re talking about. But I like I’ve been noodling on this and I’m like, I don’t know if this is legal or not. So I was talking to one of my friends who’s like an esthetician. And she was saying like she was employed by a company and this the shop, like spa, whatever. They actually fired employees, because they didn’t have a big enough social media following to bring in clientele. What? Oh, yeah, I was like, like, I feel like that’s an HR. Wow. I mean, HR disaster waiting to happen.

Samuel Sanestin 44:10
Wow. I mean, what was that, like previously stated, like in a contract or something?

Paige C. Clark 44:15
No, no. And they’re also like, not contract employees. They are employees anyways, so I was like, oh, that sounds juicy and touchy, and all of that stuff. So speaking of HR questions, do you have a team of people who report up to you? I do. Okay. Okay. So in what ways has your faith kind of influenced not only like your leadership style, but in the way that you kind of manage those employees and maybe hard conversations and tell me more about that?

Samuel Sanestin 44:52
Yeah, for sure. So when it comes to leadership, that’s something I’m really big on. I love talking about anything and everything. Leadership related, I, I am very much prone to look at Christ’s example of leadership. I, you know, just looking at the wit and the way in which he led his life and just, you know, looking at the way in which, you know, he really put time into the disciples, it was very much a servant style sort of leadership, and that’s something that I try to, I try prayerfully try to emulate in my own life. You know, not necessarily just show like telling people, like, I want you to do this, and you do that, and you do this, and you’re gonna do this, because I’m the boss. And if you don’t listen to me, you’re fired. You’re fired? No, like, that’s definitely, that’s, that definitely makes me look like a jerk. And that doesn’t help anybody else. Um, you know, I guess, you know, and I’m in a more practical way, you know, something, that’s something that Jesus often says in the Gospels is come and see, come and see, he often says, Come and see, he’ll demonstrate something, they’ll show how something is supposed to take place. And, you know, and then he’ll expect, you know, results to follow after that, when the disciples started following Jesus, they were watching, they were watching earnestly, and, you know, they didn’t just go out, you know, right away, start casting out demons and doing miracles and preaching or whatever. But they took their time they’ve watched Jesus, and the way in which he was building the foundations for his ministry. And then when the time came, he sent them out two by two, in every direction, starting, you know, to, to go about carrying on his work. And I very much tried to implement that model in the sense of if there’s like, a specific task that I have, that want somebody to do, like, for example, if I say, hey, I want you to put together a wealth allocation model for this client, and make sure that it’s adjusted for inflation by 4%. And throw in a little bit of Social Security Maximization on the side, and I want it done by the end of this week. And if I have somebody that’s like, what if I like, and so on. So I’ll walk them through and show them how it’s supposed to be done, like, step by step, I’ll like, have them in with me for like a meeting, have them watch how I, you know, kind of go about the process and say, Hey, this is how you do it, just you got to, you know, get the clients information, you got to get our source material and open up the Excel sheet, plug in the numbers, use this program, so on and so forth, just really leading them step by step in a way that’s not like, in a way that’s not like babying them. Because sometimes people can kind of get the sense of like, ah, you know, like, the way he showed me how to do this, it’s like, he has like, no faith in me or something like that. But I try to do it in a way that’s edifying in a way that kind of illustrates the sense that, hey, I’m trying to pass this off to you. Because not because I don’t want to do it myself. But because I believe in you, I believe in the potential that you have to succeed. And this job. So you know, let’s, let’s see it happen. So that’s something that I tried to emulate like leading by example, and calming down to the level of the people that may work under me. And assisting them with things that they may not understand and things of that nature. And if it comes to, you know, a difficult conversation, which has had to happen a few times, not only at this job, but previous experiences that I’ve had, I find that people respond better when they get the sense that you have their best interests at heart. Yeah. And something that I always I always say in my meetings is that hey, you know, I know why you’re in here. And you definitely know why you’re in here as well. What is something that we both can do to help you be more successful? What some, and we just, you know, and we go from like the from the base, like, Okay, what is it that you’re doing day to day that’s causing you to not be successful in this area, the mess up in this area? What are changes that we need to make? And I asked, Hey, is are there? Is there anything that I can do to help support you? Is there anything I can do to help you in this area? Do you need more accountability? Do you need me to set up timelines, realistic timelines, so we have to take off responsibilities from your plate we shot and so it’s trying to be as relatable but as at the same time practical as well to not being too loose?

Paige C. Clark 49:44
Yeah, for sure. And one thing like I mean, going throughout school, I like definitely took the servant leadership classes. But one thing that like, I didn’t realize until like, this week, I’m pretty sure I learned this lesson. Um, but it was how Jesus answered questions. And it was something like 90% of the time. Now don’t quote me on this don’t fact check me. But if something crazy like that, that he didn’t actually answer the question he answered with another question. Yeah. Cuz Jesus did that all the time. I was thinking about that. And I was like, oh, like, I’m also a life coach. And that’s what they teach you is just like, ask a bunch of questions. And so I’ve been like, kind of noodling on that concept of like, how can you help? Can you lead and how can you like, even in the workplace, but also outside of the workplace, lead better through asking questions. And that was something that I learned when I was kind of working. I wasn’t under her. She wasn’t my direct manager, but she was kind of my superior. And she would just ask me questions and questions and questions to dig deeper into the what and the why of what we’re doing. And I just realized, like, that’s a very effective way of kind of leading and all of that. So.

Samuel Sanestin 51:15
Yes, yes, very much. So. Yeah.

Paige C. Clark 51:17
And I love that just asking questions. Just ask questions with questions. Be like Jesus. That should be the new tagline ask questions be like Jesus. Well, Sam, thank you so much for coming on and sharing. Just your insight and your experience. It has been such a pleasure. One thing that I always like to wrap up with is what is one faith discipline or practice someone can do to help grow their in their relationship with Christ?

Samuel Sanestin 51:46
Okay, okay. I like to be practical, okay. Something that anybody could do is on your way to work or on your way back from work. And instead of blasting worldly, terrible music, instead of listening to little knives, flying a boss, you know, you know, instead of listening to Lozi, J Balvin. A lot of a lot of these people will know what I’m talking about. But

Paige C. Clark 52:14
who any of these. So

Samuel Sanestin 52:18
you set you set you you’ll be surprised to be molested are gonna be like, Oh, snap, he’s talking to me. Why? Speak to them say it. You need to repent. But, um, something that I would suggest is, why not listen to a short devotional on your way to work? You know, why not? You know, listen to a little bit of, you know, the Bible being read to you on your way to work. You’re on your way back from work, you know, just

Paige C. Clark 52:52
the Wi Fi podcast.

Samuel Sanestin 52:54
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely listening, listen to something, listen to things that will edify your spirit. When you find yourself in situations at work, you know, where you’re like, oh, you know, my on my boss and you feel like you want to do something or you’re you just feel like you’re having a tough situation at work, or wherever you’re at. Those, you know, those instances where you took the time to integrate the Word of God into your life will come back to you in those moments when you need it the most. And if you know, the Lord is going to do amazing things, so edifying your spirit on the way to work on the way back from work. Some people have a 50 minute drive, 20 minute drive. So you have plenty of more than enough time, so it wasn’t something that will benefit your students.

Paige C. Clark 53:40
I love that. I love that. Sam, thank you so much for joining us now. Where can people find you? Listen to your podcasts, all that good stuff.

Samuel Sanestin 53:48
Yes. Okay, so my podcast is called the next drop off. We just dropped a new episode this past week. Are you Christian or not? Yes, you can find us on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, you can go to the next drop off.com You can download our episodes from there. You can find me on Instagram. You can just type in Samuel Santos them on Instagram On Facebook, LinkedIn, I’m on all of those platforms. And yeah,

Paige C. Clark 54:19
and all everything will be linked below to in the show notes. Well, thank you, Sam for joining us. I hope you get a little bit of rest this weekend like kind of like fingers crossed and that because you sound busy also this weekend, but hope you guys can get some rest this weekend. I hope that you guys enjoyed this episode. And make sure to subscribe, leave us five stars and we’ll catch you next week.