9 to 5 Faith Podcast: Episode 28

Paige C. Clark 0:20
Oh, hello, Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the nine to five faith Podcast. I’m here with my new friend, Ashley. Ashley, how are you doing today?

Ashley Kazery 0:50
I’m doing great. Thank you for having me. Yes, and I love the

Paige C. Clark 0:54
color coordination that you have going on with like the red room, the red lip, the red earrings and the red top. It’s, it’s very much on point.

Ashley Kazery 1:04
I have a problem with that color. Yeah,

Paige C. Clark 1:08
I wish I had a problem with that color. It is that, like, I always get compliments when I wear it, but I also, like, don’t own anything in in the color red. So need to expand that wardrobe. So tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and who you are and what you do and all that good stuff. Sure,

Ashley Kazery 1:25
absolutely. So my name is Ashley, and I am from Clinton, Mississippi, so if you’re any type of familiar with Mississippi, it’s basically right outside of Jackson. I’m a professor at the University of Southern Mississippi in the education department, so I essentially teach pre service teachers. So our students who are going in to be teachers. I teach them how to teach reading and writing and assessment to elementary students. My husband and I are both educators. He teaches also as at Mississippi College, which is a Christian university here in Clinton, totally different. He teaches anatomy and physiology and biology, so a vastly different scales. He’s a little bit smaller than me, but we’re not going to tell him. I said that. Yes, and so we were blessed with two beautiful boys, Jaden Jordan. Jaden is 15, and kind of the story that I think is going to progress a little bit today during this session, is we actually lost Jordan last year, and so he was when that accident happened. And so that’s a big part of why I jumped into writing and researching and blogging and things like that.

Paige C. Clark 2:40
Yeah, well, I’m so sorry to hear that, but yeah, well, we’ll definitely kind of dig into that as as you feel comfortable, but that’s really exciting, too. So your husband and you work at different colleges. Are they near each other? Oh,

Ashley Kazery 2:56
no. So he actually works about five minutes from our house, which is very convenient for him. I have an hour and a half commute.

Paige C. Clark 3:03
Yeah, that’s rough. I saw you put that in our notes, and that is rough. How often do you have to go in, into the office? It really depends on

Ashley Kazery 3:16
the semester. Okay, yeah. So one semester I was totally online, so I just could go pop in and out whenever I wanted to. Last semester, I had two in person classes, and this coming semester, I have three in person classes, so I will have to drive Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursdays to go down and teach. So it really just depends on the classes that need to be taught. Yeah,

Paige C. Clark 3:39
yeah, and, and nothing about like the South. My mom lives in Georgia, and she commutes a pretty long commute. Y’all roads drive me absolutely

Speaker 1 3:49
nuts. They’re not great. I haven’t been to Mississippi, but

Paige C. Clark 3:53
if they’re anything like Georgia’s or like South Carolina’s, ooh, they they’re interesting. It does

Ashley Kazery 4:00
present a challenge, actually. Again, if you’re familiar with anything of Mississippi, I drive all the way down 49 highway, 49 and I mean, it’s a straight shot, so it’s great, okay, there’s stop signs or stop lights, you know, every the highway. And then they have been working on parts of 49 for things like the entire lifespan of my driving career. So it’s, you know, I mean, it just kind of is what it

Paige C. Clark 4:25
is. Oh my goodness. See, I live in Phoenix. And the good thing about Phoenix is that everything out here is pretty much new. So like, I mean, except, like, the old freeways, all the freeways are new. So, like, technically, there shouldn’t have to be a ton of work on them. Never seems to be that way. But, yeah, we’re on a grid system. And, I mean, y’all are not we. We always joke, so where I live, I’ve. Everything is grids and loops. So like the freeways, they kind of are like boxy, and they go in a circle, and you can get from point A to point B, and and all of the all of the like neighborhoods, since they’re also new, they’re all grid system neighborhoods. And in my town, there is a we call it like the drunken road, because it’s just a diagonal that like cuts through the entire middle of the town, and it like disrupts the grid. And so, like, we have two roads with the same name that go different directions, and then they end up meeting somewhere. And so always, always keeps it lively. But I give, I give props to my friends in the south, because I could not deal. I need to add that to my checklist of why I’m not moving to the south. It’s humidity, bugs, and now number three is going to be the roads.

Ashley Kazery 5:58
The roads, yeah, the humidity is pretty bad today. It was 100% yesterday. That’s 98 and it was supposed to rain. It never did. So

Paige C. Clark 6:10
that’s awful. Well, here it’s just hot, so we don’t have to deal with any of that, and I’m glad for it. So how long have you been working in this role.

Ashley Kazery 6:20
So as a professor, this is actually only my second year before that, I worked at the Mississippi Department of Education as the English language arts director, which I also had to drive all around the state. So the commute that is an hour and a half one way, really is not terrible for me, because honestly, for the past six years, I have been driving all over our state. Luckily, I am centrally located, so generally speaking, I don’t have to drive more than three hours one way, but commuting has definitely been something that has been a part of my life for a while.

Paige C. Clark 6:59
Yeah, and in this entire time, I always like to ask, like, where, where your job kind of intersected with your faith journey. And like, Have you always been a Christian as long as you’ve kind of been in the workforce? Or how did those timelines kind of align together?

Ashley Kazery 7:17
So that’s actually one of my favorite stories to tell here lately, so I’m really glad you asked. So yes, I have always been a Christian. My My father is a pastor, so I’ve been raised in the church. Obviously, there was a time in life where I wasn’t as close to God as I am now. And kind of those ebbs and flows as a young adult, you know, getting into adulthood. But as far as my position now, it’s a little bit different because it is a public university, and so they have pretty strict new policies and procedures in regards to, you know, sharing faith and just general things like that. Like I said, whereas my husband teaches at a Christian university, and so, like, they are encouraged to to approve for class and to have, you know, Bible studies and think things of that nature. So it is, yeah, but the story of how I actually got the position that I have now. So as I, as I said, My son had passed away, and I was traveling all over the place, commuting, going throughout the state to do professional development for teachers and coaching teachers, and just basically anything that teachers needed across the state. And so again, travel every single day, every Monday, not last year, but the year before, I drove three hours one way to almost Tennessee, and so again, it’s just it was a lot, and after we lost our son, obviously priorities and things shifted a good bit. And I was very concerned about going back into that role, because I took about three months off, and that I was very concerned about going back into that role, and just being gone so much and traveling so much, and because, again, we do have a 15 year old home and things of that nature. And so obviously it was something that we were all praying about, and but I honestly wasn’t really looking for anything, because, again, I didn’t want to have, like, a huge change, right, or something like that happened. And so I had talked to my boss, and, you know, we were kind of making plans and ideas and things like that. And legitimately, the week before school started, the University of Southern Mississippi called me, and I had applied to teach adjunct there, probably three years ago, and nothing came of it. And I guess they just kept my application on file. So they needed someone to teach a very specific phonics and phonemic awareness course that you have to have a master’s degree in reading or reading education to be able to teach, okay? And I was literally the only person. Wow, that, yeah, that had that degree that could teach that. And so they called, and you know, they were like, hey, you know, we want you to apply for this. It was a full time position. And so honestly, you know, I told them, I said, No, that’s I told them what had happened. And I said, that’s just a big change right now. I’m a little nervous about that. And you know, they said, Okay, we understand, but we just want to send you, like, the benefits and things that you would have here, yeah? And I was like, Okay, sure. So they sent the benefits. And of course, you know, you’re looking at all these benefits and at a state school, and you’re like, Oh, wow. You know, these are nice, yeah, the schedule is obviously very nice, that type of thing. And so I did go ahead and apply, and they called me immediately. And you know, so they wanted me to come right, but it was a pretty big pay cut. And so, you know, again, was like, I don’t think I can do that right now, you know, cut, but the the pay was set. And so they basically were like, well, what can we do to make you say yes? And so I said, Well, I don’t want to have to drive, you know, every day, like, Yeah, three times a week with probably my max and they were like, Okay, done. And so it was, again, very much a God thing. Totally just landed that in my lap, and it was desperately needed at that time, because that was the semester that I had all online classes, so I didn’t have to get up and go into the office like after this, you know, traumatic event had just happened, and I was able to to be at home and to kind of process things and work through things and be here for my family. So that is how I got to where I am now, which is, like I said, I mean, it’s one of my favorite stories, because all throughout my life, I have so desperately tried to manipulate and control my destiny or my purpose and what I want to be and what I want to do. And it was just a perfect example of, I could not have orchestrated that better. And so, you know, God, totally took him everything. And again, it’s perfect. I mean, I literally could not have done it better.

Paige C. Clark 12:15
Oh, I love that. And yeah, I think I’m actually working on a few writing pieces right now where I’m like, if you try to dream up the best thing that you could possibly dream of, you’re short shooting yourself because God has, like, his plan is so much far superior than what we could ever even try to dream up for ourselves. So that’s really beautiful, that that has like played out, especially in like, in your role, in your transition, especially in the midst of like, some really terrible, like, instances and situations and all that stuff. So my big question, because I used to commute 40 miles one way, um, I was quite the track. It was quite the journey, and that drove me nuts. I, like, was desperately needing to get out of that job. But I also think, like, part of it was the job as well. But how do you handle it? How do you deal with it? How do you survive, keep yourself sane, anything like that. If, if anyone’s listening who has, like a terrible commute, or, like a really long commute, or it’s just really far they they understand. So yeah, how, what are your kind of tricks of the trade to keep yourself level headed throughout it?

Ashley Kazery 13:36
So there are several things that I do, and I will say too, I am in the in the minority here, because I actually love to drive. I Okay, I love to drive. I love that quiet time that I get driving by myself in the car. And plus, I’ve done it for so long, it just, it does not bother me to be in the car and drive that long. But with that being said, especially if, if I because, like, I said before this position where I’m now only driving an hour and a half, which sounds long to people who don’t have a commute to me, that’s nothing, um, so what I essentially would do is I, I kind of have, like, I don’t want to say a schedule, but I have, like, a flow of yeah that I do, and so I always start off with listening to my favorite Pandora station is Hillsong radio. Okay, always start off with listening to that Hillsong radio for about 20 minutes, just to kind of, you know, get into the flow of my commute. Yeah, after that kind of depending on my feeling, I typically will pray for a little while, and that’s when I find that I actually have the best prayer times in the car by myself. I don’t know if it’s because I’m not as distracted. You know, as I am at home, or things like that. But it just really listening to that music just really kind of gets me into that mindset of, you know, worshiping God and being close to God. And then, you know, like I said, generally, have a pretty good prayer time. And then I typically either will listen to my Bible app, just to kind of make sure I’m getting that in. I have a, I hate to say this, but I have a love hate relationship with that, to be honest with you, like I love that I can have that up right, to have that lap and listen to it, but I’m the kind of person who I like to study, right? I like to write them out. I like to make notes and annotations, and so obviously, when I’m driving, I cannot do that, right? So I do, again, like to have that option, but that’s not something that I, I guess, rely on, so to speak, and so, like I said, depending on and to depending on where I’m going and what I’m doing. Sometimes I listen to a podcast. I do listen to, like proverbs 31 podcast that they have. Francis Chan is another podcast that I enjoy listening to. Yeah, I’m a huge Enneagram fan, and so there’s a couple Enneagram podcast that I listen to as well. What’s your number? I’m an eight.

Paige C. Clark 16:18
Okay, beautiful. What are you I’m a six, okay, a hard six.

Ashley Kazery 16:25
I’m a pretty heavy eight. And, yeah, makes life difficult, but, yeah, you know, yeah. Um, so anyway, a podcast, and then, generally speaking, like, if I have any phone calls or anything I need to make before I go somewhere, like, I’ll try to kind of get those things finished and wrapped up, and then I do try to always about 1520 minutes before I get to my location, go back and listen to music that is uplifting and something that’s going to help me go into where I am calm and Like trying to just kind of get that day started on a positive note. So I try to make my morning commute as calm and just as worshipful, and really kind of start my day with God again. I find that when I have that commute time, I’m able to spend so much more interrupted time, uninterrupted time with God, than I do, like, if, like, this summer, I mean, I haven’t been going to the office because it’s summertime and no one’s there, and so that’s been something that I’ve had to work on, not traveling and doing. So

Paige C. Clark 17:36
interesting. That’s so interesting, because I feel like a lot of people too, would, you know, use their commute or not count their commute, right? Like, not that we’re keeping score, but not consider that, like the time that they’re spent in, in the car, commuting and everything as as part of that, you know, sacred time with Jesus. But it’s really beautiful that you’ve found a way to, kind of like, make it your own little mini church service.

Ashley Kazery 18:06
It was definitely trial and error, because, I will say, for a long time, because I’m not a morning person, and so for a long time, I would, yeah, I would get in the car and I would, I would, I’ll just be honest, I have a guilty my guilty pleasure is gangster rap music. Absolutely love Snoop Dogg, okay. Like, okay, all those things so, but for a while, like, I would get in the car and think, like, oh, I need to wake myself up, so I’m going to listen to, like, some really upbeat, you know, music. And, yeah, and, you know, by the time I got to work, I mean, I’m like, like, Oh my God. And so I just discovered that that was not what I needed to do to go into to work and be the person I needed to be at work, if that makes it,

Paige C. Clark 18:54
yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think too, like, you know, you just have to figure out, like, for me, I was just angry because I’m a California born person, so I have California road rage, and driving just made it come out. And also, I give props to you that you pray during your commutes, because I always found like, when I would pray during my commute, I’d end up crying, and then I’m like, driving and crying, and that’s just never a good situation. So I give like, props to you that you’re able to balance that, because I have to

Ashley Kazery 19:31
be careful with that. If I feel myself getting too emotional, I will kind of change what I’m doing, because obviously, yes, you don’t want to go into work fluffy eyes and red eyes and like people like, Oh no. What happened? Just talking to Jesus, yeah,

Paige C. Clark 19:49
yeah, that’s that’s really powerful. One thing too that I found when I was commuting, no, I’m not. I’m working from home. You can tell by my very messy office that I spend all my time in here. Um, but when I was commuting, one thing I’d love to do is make phone calls. So I would call my mom one day, I would call my grandma the another day, call my other grandma another day, you know, just make phone calls. So, like, I’m intentionally reaching out to these people and like having conversations also phone calls Trump text messages anytime in my book. So I always love to just be on phone calls and like I had just, just these really dear moments with my grandma before she passed, of just talking on the phone with her all the time.

Ashley Kazery 20:37
I love that. Yeah, I typically save that for my ride home. Okay, yeah, so like my ride home is not as worshipful, because I just, you know, I mean, at that point I’m just kind of ready to get home, yeah, and so, but I do, I do spend the time at my phone calls and things, and I actually one of the things that I do, just because I’m so all over the place in my calendar. If someone tells me something, I keep, I still keep a paper calendar. I’m a paper calendar girl, me too, online as well. But I like my paper calendar, so I will actually like, let’s say you told me, like, Oh, I’m, you know, my mom is having surgery on this day. Like I immediately, I always have my calendar with me, and I write it down. And so my calendar is always open at work or wherever I am, and so I’ll see that. And that’s kind of how I try to intentionally make those connections. And I do have the time to do that on my on my commute home, yeah, because I don’t know about you, but you know, once you get home everything, you know, you have kids that have homework, you have to cook dinner, or you have to, you know, start doing things like that. And so on my commute is when I, again, can be very intentional about reaching out to people and making those connections. And then again, with my calendar, doing that to be very purposeful. Because I don’t know about you, but I know if I don’t write it down, I will, it’ll be in one ear and out the other, and yeah, but I don’t care, but it’s just we’re so busy and going on that if I don’t write down immediately, it’s not going to happen.

Paige C. Clark 22:05
Yeah, I always say, if it doesn’t exist on a list, it doesn’t exist in my head. Yes, because I’m the same way where I have to have it written down. And I’m, I’m starting to do some research for one of my books, and I’m like, I need to figure out a physical way to, like, put this research together, because if I can’t see it and touch it, I don’t want to have to scroll to find it like that’s just who I am. Now, one thing that I did when I was commuting was I would always also call my husband, and so we use that time as kind of like a decompression, like the small talk that you would have, like when you get home we have on the phone. And so, like, when I get home, we’re able to just kind of like, carry on through our life. Have you like, Do you do anything like that with your husband or with your with your son or anything like that.

Ashley Kazery 23:03
No, but, you know, that’s a really good idea, because it is. I mean, it’s hard, like, I think when you get home, it’s like, you have all these things to do, and, you know, so we might say, oh, like, how was your day? But at the same time, like, you really, you’re, you know, I’m cooking, so I’m not really focused on. So, no, actually, I don’t do that. I probably should. I like that. You actually even suggested that. Yeah, I will say with our son, he is, he’s, he’s a sophomore in high school, and he’s, just like most high school students, is so busy and so just wrapped up with everything that our time together is, generally speaking, when we are getting ready for bed. So like, when you know a certain time, we’re like, okay, you know, phones are getting put up. Everything’s, you know, because we don’t, we don’t let him keep his phone in his room. Yeah, lights and so phones are getting put up. And, you know, I go in there and we just kind of chat, and I have found that that’s our time to really, kind of, like you said, decompress and kind of talk about the things throughout the day. And because he’s then had time to, you know, come home, do his homework, he has practice for people in show choir, and so he had practice for show choir, and so all that’s done. And you know, that’s finally a time where he can kind of relax. And so that’s the time that we found that is best for us. Yeah, um, John, just be honest with you, ever since the ever since the accident, my husband and I have had a hard time, um, finding that connection time, yeah, just because everything, everything going on, all the emotions, all Yeah. And so that is something that since that, since you know, our sun path, that we have had struggles with. And so I really like that you suggested calling him. And. Chatting, yeah, probably really needed to hear that. No,

Paige C. Clark 25:02
oh, I love that, yeah. And sometimes, like, sometimes it’s just like, awkward, being awkward. And like, we would sit on the phone just in silence, and I’d be driving, and then if something popped into my head, I would say it, and then he would be like, yeah, yeah, okay. And then I could tell if he was, like, busy doing something, and be like, okay, like, let me finish my podcast, and then I’ll see you when I get home. But, yeah, it was a really great way to kind of decompress, shifting gears a little bit. And I want to talk more about, you know, this, this really horrendous thing that you’ve, you have gone through. And I want to talk about, like, a good segue into it would be like, how, how were you able to handle that? And like, be drawing appropriate boundaries with your work as well. So you can start from the beginning and telling that, but really, like, I’m just curious, like, you know, something hard is happening on the home front, you know, like, how, how can we, you know, set aside the appropriate amount of time to make sure we’re taking care of our families and ourselves, but also, like reporting to work, because we still have that responsibility. Yes,

Ashley Kazery 26:19
and I will say So again, all of us are in the education realm in our family. And so the accident that took his life happened in June. And so we did have the entire month of July and half of August to to kind of process some of that. Um, yeah. So it wasn’t like we had to, you know, immediately go back to work, which was a huge blessing, right? I And we’ve talked about too, like, I don’t know how somebody loses someone, and then they go back to work in two weeks. Yeah, it because they’re, I mean, to this day, someone will say something about something that happened in September of that year, and I’m like, I have no recollection of that. And so it’s that was a that was a big that was a big thing that the fact that we did have that time that we didn’t, you know, have to immediately go back to work. Yeah, all of our, like, I said, I started a new job and and I was very open and upfront with them from the beginning, and they were very accommodating. Like, I’m sure that’s why I had all online classes that semester, right, which, again, just worked out, and it was phenomenal. My husband teaching where he’s he’s been there for 15 years. You know, they point like, ask him, like, what do you what are you comfortable teaching? Like, do you need to teach later on in the day? Like, was, again, very accommodating with his schedule. Our son was a freshman last year, and even the school system was just so amazing with everything that they did. I mean, they reached out during the summer and said, hey, you know, we do have counselors at the school. You know, if you if he wants to talk to somebody you know, he’s more than welcome to if he just, you know, wants to leave class and talk to somebody just, you know, the teacher knows about it. I mean, so everyone was extremely like, I guess our community was extremely supportive. And that was something that I’ve said over and over again, was if we did not have our faith in God and we did not have the community that that we have, we would, I don’t think we would have made that right. And so it’s so important, and that is something that I’ve really stressed to people since then, is finding your people. And of course, you, it’s just one of those things like you, you really never know who you have until something happens. Yeah, yeah. And so there are people who,

Paige C. Clark 29:07
for better or for worse, yeah. And

Ashley Kazery 29:09
so there were definitely people who, you know, we thought would have been, or like you people you think would be super supportive and super there for people, and then they weren’t. And then some people that you don’t expect to be like that really came through. But definitely, obviously our faith in God was number one. Because from the get go, we said, you know, obviously, it was a horrific event, a tragic accident, like it wasn’t, he wasn’t sick or anything. I mean, he it was a tragic, tragic accident, and it was freak accident, and but again, like we know that we serve a sovereign God and we don’t like it, we still don’t like it. We’re still, you know, we have. Sometimes we’re angry, sometimes we’re sad, sometimes, you know, we’re just depressed. So many different emotions go with grief. But at the end of the day, I know that there’s a purpose behind it. I never know that purpose on this side of heaven, but I know there’s a purpose, and that helps me just kind of processing through that, if that makes sense, yeah, because it is something that’s so like, Yes, I’m angry. Like, I lost my baby. I mean, yeah, you know, I’ve gone through the whole, you know, this isn’t fair. You know, why did this happen to us? Like, yeah, all of those processes and thoughts and, and I’ll be honest, like there was a time when, especially the first, like two months, like, Yes, I prayed. But my prayers were obviously drastically different than Yeah, than like they are today, or they were beforehand. And, you know, I point blank, told God, I took a lot from job because, yeah, he was very like, he told, you know, God, that he was not happy and he was not pleased about this. And I did. There were several times where my prayer was, God, this is BS, yeah, you know, but I’m going to trust you, and I need you, and you know, help us to help our anger and our resentment and all these things not get in the way of what you’re doing. Yeah? And that was really hard. But again, I don’t want whatever the purpose is of this. I don’t want me to get in the way of that. Yeah, um, but yeah. So definitely our faith in God and our community, like I said, if we did not have those two things, we would not, we would not have made it. And, I mean, even just little things, like our neighbors cut our grass the entire summer, like we didn’t ask people like it just wake up and it would be cut like people again, like our son is in show fire, and so we have to pay for that. It was paid for, like, someone paid for it. Just not having to having people that were so there for us, that we didn’t have to worry about, like, little, minute things that you don’t think about was, honestly, I hate to say life changing, but at the same time, like, I don’t think we would be where we are today if we didn’t have that. Yeah,

Paige C. Clark 32:34
absolutely. And I think too, like, one of the things that I was thinking of, like, when you were saying all of this, and I think that I mean so many thoughts, the first thing being when hard things happen. And some people believe that, you know, when you follow Christ, bad things don’t happen. Okay, they do. That’s not true. Bad things happen to everyone, but I think I heard it put once that it’s the hope that we’re able to carry through the bad things that differentiates the experience. So, you know, as a Christian, yes, bad things are going to happen, hard things are going to happen, but it’s the hope that we get to carry because we have faith in Jesus, it’s the hope that we get to carry through it, that that is the game changer in all of it.

Ashley Kazery 33:33
One thing that really helped me, too, is so right after the accident happened, a lot of friends really pushed us to go to counseling, which, yeah, you know, strongly recommend, especially if something that traumatic happens. And so we started going and her, our therapist. First initial suggestion was, we’ll start journaling. And so my husband literally came home and would write down, like today. This person brought us dinner today. This person did this, and as I was doing that, that did not help me, that just kind of my thinking process was, I don’t want to relive my crappy day, you know, right, so, and again, the research side of me, because I’m a professor, I had all these questions. You know that I was, you know, I was questioning God, questioning his purpose, question all these things. And so I went from an in a research aspect. And so I started researching, and I got all these books on grief and all these books on loss that were Christian based, and read through the Bible. And so my questions began being like a research topic for me, and, yeah, really trying to process through that. And so during that time I wrote, I wrote a book about our about the situation, and it starts off, you know, with the story of what happened. And then. And essentially, because, like you said, we do always think, Oh, I’m a Christian. This shouldn’t happen to me, or oh, I’ve I was a good mom, so why did this happen to me and not somebody else? And again, just all those questions. And so taking that and really looking at, what does God promise us? God, there’s so many promises that God promises in the Bible. And one of them is not that we will have an easy life, right? And so really, that’s how I research that. So I researched God’s promises and put that in the book, and then tried to make it more applicable, ending it with, you know? So if you know somebody who is grieving like these are things you can do. Or if you are reading, these are some things that might help you. So I’m really excited about that. It’s actually at an editor right now, and so fingers crossed. So exciting, like, I’m hoping like October, November ish, back. That’s so exciting. Yes,

Paige C. Clark 35:55
well, maybe I’ll hold back on this episode and just hang out on it so we can get it released right around the time that that your book comes out. So fingers crossed. I think my other thing that I am kind of drawing in on all this is what we were saying earlier, where, you know, people’s true colors kind of come out in all in the midst of this. And I actually think I would argue that, of course, there’s the bad apples in terms of, like, the workplace and the schools and all that stuff like that stuff exists. But I would, my hunch, is to argue that more times than not, the schools and, like, the kind of bigger powers that be, meaning, you know, if you have kids, it’s the school, and you know, if it’s, if you’re in the workplace, then it’s kind of, you know, your HR and your bosses and everything like that, I would say, more times than not, they step up. And I think that it’s not seen, and so, you know, they might not get that credit where it’s due. But, yeah, that’s my hunch. Is that more times people show up in really powerful ways, like they did in your situation, versus just like being, you know, kind of flipping and just putting it to the side and be like, Oh, well, like, you know. And

Ashley Kazery 37:23
I would totally agree with that, but I think that, and one of the big things I talk about in my book is that we don’t talk about grief. We don’t talk about loss, because it makes us so uncomfortable. Mm, hmm. And I totally get that before, before the accident. I mean, if someone was crying, I would legitimately be like, let me pat you in the back and be like, Oh, I’m so sorry. Are you okay? Yeah, just because that, that emotion a lot of people it, they just get so uncomfortable. And so, yeah, one of the biggest things that I know we have tried to do is to not advocate. Is not the right word for it, but be a sounding board for that, because, again, we don’t talk about it and even the whole grief process. We don’t we don’t teach people how to grieve. You know, we teach kids how to communicate, we teach kids how to problem solve, we teach kids how to do all these things, but we don’t teach them how to grieve, and we don’t teach them how to even go through a process like that, because no one wants to do that. No one wants to lose somebody, no one wants to get divorced. No one wants to you know, there’s all kinds of grief, and we don’t talk about the processes of that. But absolutely, I do think people step up a lot more than we realize. But again, we just don’t ever talk about it. Yeah, and so people, and this is showing me, too, the isolation aspect that is something we’ve had to be so careful about. Because, yeah, obviously, in grief, in depression, in sadness, you just want to lay in bed, you just you don’t want to go anywhere, you don’t want to do anything, you don’t want to, you know, especially for a long time, we didn’t want to go out and have people, because obviously, and people still treat us different. I mean, you know, they it’s just as what it is, and, um, but so that we had, um, gotta be very purposeful about that, especially for about the first six months, because we knew we couldn’t isolate ourselves. Because that’s when, you know, all kinds of things happen, and the devil isolated, right? And legitimately, the to the accident happened on a Monday. We were at church, Sunday. And granted, we sat in the sound booth, right, but we were at church, yeah? And thankfully, a lot of it was our child, like Jaden, our oldest, he wanted to go like he wanted to go to church. And, yeah, I’m over here. Didn’t want to get the bed, you know, but I’m like, my child’s wanting to go to church. After this just happened, we’re going to go to church, yeah. And so we didn’t allow ourselves to fall in. To that trap of doing that. Now was that easy? Absolutely not. No, yeah, there were definitely days where I did lay in bed, you know, and didn’t go out and do things, but more often than not, that was just something that we really had to push ourselves, yeah, to do and I do feel like that was pivotal for our

Paige C. Clark 40:25
progress. Yeah, I can relate to that, in a sense, when it when it comes to isolation, I, you know, I struggle personally with really bad depression and anxiety, and there’s times like when I hit, like, a low, low I’m like, sitting on the floor, just like, staring off into space. And my husband’s like, okay, like, what are we gonna do? He’s like, do you want to go out and do something? I’m like, No, but yes, yeah. Like, no, I don’t want to. But yes, I know I should, and I know that, like, it will help move me to a place that’s not where I’m at right now, in a very physical way, so I can, I can understand that, of like, it’s like a no, but yes, like, No, I don’t want to do this, but yes, we’re going to do it. That is the other piece too. Like, when you were talking about just kind of the school and everything stepping up, it reminded me so when I was in high school, my mom, my dad left, and my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer, all at the same time, and I was kind of like the only person, like the oldest person at Home. So I went into caregiving, parenting types, type mode. And when that happened, you know, I think my mom had called, called the school, and just like, was like, Hey, this is what’s going on. And again, it, it didn’t get a lot of like, it wasn’t public that they had these situations, or, you know, it wasn’t well known, but like, the teachers and the administrators that stepped up into my life during that time was huge. And like, I will never forget, the the teachers who were like, Hey, if you can’t turn in an assignment, that’s okay. Like, that’s fine. Or like, if you need a moment, just like, let me know that you’re leaving and leave, you know, and things like that. And it’s, honestly, it’s, it’s really comforting and and full circle, that it’s like, it’s the community that we set ourselves up with, and it’s our people that are surrounded by us that really make the difference.

Ashley Kazery 42:41
I could not agree more, and that is something. Just the last few months, we’ve actually started a young adult small group with our church, and that’s one of the biggest things that I’ve tried to emphasize with them, because they’re they’re young adults. So some of them are in college, some of them are just starting jobs and things like that. And and I’ve tried to reiterate that is so pivotal, like having that support system, having people who you know are on your side. And just to give a little more background information, my son that passed away, we we had, he actually passed away on my husband and my other son’s birthday, so they share the same birthday, and we took our kids and six other kids kayaking, and so six other boys that are my oldest son’s age Were there to celebrate his birthday, witness the entire situation they were, you know, and that I had a really hard time with pearl, that’s probably I had a harder time with than a lot of things. And I don’t know why. Again, people are different, but I was so concerned that, like, I ruined their lives. You know that I in root and realistically, I know that’s not true. I do, right? But that’s still one of those things that just pops into your mind, and I’m like, Oh my gosh. Like, I have, not only have I traumatized my child because of this, but you know these six other boys are going to have that with them for the rest of their lives. Yeah, and just the the difference of those boys, like, there were two of them that, like, immediately went into, like, helping the situation, and, you know, really trying to help and really trying to be there in a couple of them panicked, you know, and, but those boys have been so instrumental with my son, I think moving on because, yeah, he has, and it was a shared experience, yeah, and even if they graduate college and don’t see each other again, you know, they’re always going to have that as a connecting point, which I think. Is going to help them stay connected. Yeah, throughout life and their families were even just absolutely amazing throughout the whole situation. And I mean, some of them, we were friends with them beforehand, right, like kids and everything, but a couple of them we have really, really gotten close to and it’s been a really good that has been good again, just because of that community and that support and and having somebody that is truly there for you, and not just, you know, oh, how are you today? And kind of move on, but truly, you know, like, whatever it is you need, I’ll help you. Then having that is has been like I said, just great, yeah.

Paige C. Clark 45:45
So when it comes to kind of bring it full circle, when it comes to experiencing this grief, and you know, we have our co workers who, depending on how you work. You know can be extended family, they can be really close friends, or they can be like nemesis, I guess. I mean, I hope not, but in those situations where there’s an individual going through this really hard time with grief, what is the best thing that like your co worker say like my co worker is going through this. How could I best respond, in your opinion, how could I best respond to what they’re going through and support them in in the best way? I

Ashley Kazery 46:30
think one of the biggest things for me has been people just being mindful, you know, I I’m not delusional in the in the essence of you know, everyone you know has me on their mind all the time. That’s not reality. So people at work, people at church, people just in general, you know, have said things or, you know, worded things a certain way that could be triggering. And they don’t mean it right. They’re right. They’re not being ugly, they’re not being vindictive, they’re not nothing like that. But it’s just that we don’t think about it. And when they realize that, many of them have kind of come back and said, like and I’ll just give you an example. Um, so over Christmas, one of my co workers at the University of Southern, you know, we’re off for like, a month for Christmas, so, you know, we haven’t seen each other, and, you know, in the hallway and, and they were like, oh, you know, how’s Christmas? I’m sure Christmas was great. And, you know, all these, you know, talked about how wonderful Christmas was and all this. And I said, yeah, it was good. And moved on. Because, again, I mean, she didn’t know me when the accident happened, like I knew she was not intentionally, being like, Oh, Christmas was so wonderful, you know, right? Because that was our first Christmas without Jordan. And so the next day, she came into my office and she was like, Ashley, I’m so sorry. I did not even think about that, I feel like such a but like, I cannot believe I did that, and I told her, I said, I’m, you know, I’m, I’m not upset like I understand that. I said, I really appreciate you coming, you know, and saying that. I said, but again, just being mindful of what other people are going through. And I think that even for someone who’s not going through grief, I mean, we never know what someone’s carrying with them. And yes, it’s easy to get in our one track mind and do what we need to do and just kind of live our life, but really being mindful of what other people are going through and the stress that they might be under or the things that could be going on with them. I mean, even if it’s someone going through a divorce, or even if it’s, you know, I have a friend right now that is going through a divorce, and I do try to be mindful to not, you know, say, like, Oh, my husband, you know, made coffee for me this morning. Yeah,

Paige C. Clark 48:58
like, Look how amazing

Ashley Kazery 48:59
he is, or, yeah, like, and so and again, we’re all going to do that because we’re not, we don’t think that way, right? But like I said, just being mindful and and being considerate and, like I said, I mean, you’re going to say things like, I’m going to say things, you know that, yeah, upset people,

Paige C. Clark 49:19
Oh, I’ve, I’ve said it. I have put my foot in my foot in

Ashley Kazery 49:23
my mouth in a heartbeat. But just when you realize that, you know, do be mindful. And just, in my opinion, what is like I said I have appreciated is just saying, like, Hey, I didn’t think about it, you know, I do think about you. I am concerned, you know. And just letting them know that they’re on their side, like they’re all there for them. And like I said, everyone’s going to make a mistake. Everyone’s going to say something. It just is what it is, yeah, but just again, being mindful of that, if you do realize that, and then just kind of identifying that,

Paige C. Clark 49:57
yeah, yeah. For sure, I’ll tell kind of, I. I mean, it’s a funny story now, because the person I said it to laughed it off. He was not offended or anything, but I put my foot in it, trying to be funny. He was saying how we were just like talking over lunch. It had nothing to do with anything but his I think it was his mom or his cousin who needed to get a kidney transplant, and his sister had to get a kidney transplant, and tongue in cheek, I went, Oh, well, I’d get you checked if, like, if I were you like, I would, you know, do something like that. And he was like, no, it’s actually like a genetic condition that, like all everyone in my family has, and I, I felt so bad. Luckily, he laughed it off. But, you know, those are those situations where you just absolutely put your foot in it, and of course, I apologize. And you know, just responding to that moment with grace and kind of replying, and I think what I’m hearing from you too is just like in those moments, especially in the workplace, in those moments, just seeing people as human first is what was coming to mind for me, because that’s something that I’ve had to learn of just, especially with managing people, is usually I’m just, like, a straight shooter, just go, go, go. And I just remember, like, anytime I send someone a message, and I’ve, like, gone, and I’ve typed the whole message, and then I just delete it, because then I go, Hey, how was your weekend? And I treat them human first, and then I jump into the the work part of it,

Ashley Kazery 51:43
yes, and that’s something that I think, even not in the workplace, that I know I have to work on, because I, like you said, I’m a straight shooter. I don’t do a lot of fluff. And so, like, I just need you to tell me what I need to know, or whatever, is a move on. And so I have, I will say, going through this has made me much more conscious of that. Yeah, treating people as humans first, because we all want to be treated, you know, start we want, we should treat people the way we want them to treat us. Yeah, again, just being mindful of and then it goes back to the Bible, like one of the things I’ve been studying is the fruits of the Spirit, because I personally feel like that is just such a hard thing to possess, and so I’ve gone through and studied them, and of course, like love is the very first one, and it’s, you know, you need to love others and to give grace, and just trying to be mindful of that. And to love is an action. You know, it’s not, it’s not just passive,

Paige C. Clark 52:44
yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, Ashley, thank you so much for joining us, and I am so excited to read your story and learn a little bit more about grief, because, again, I’ll admit that’s not a topic I know very much about, nor do I want to learn about, which means I should. So one thing that I always like to wrap up with is what is one discipline or faith based practice that our audience can implement today to help them move forward in their faith and grow closer to Jesus?

Ashley Kazery 53:23
I think it would have to be intentionally praying so and when I say that, I don’t just mean like setting us out of time to pray, but a lot of times, I find that my Bible reading and my prayer time can become almost like a checklist, you know, like I’ve done it for the day. And so when I realized that, you know, when God convicts me of that, I try to stop and and pray and ask God, you know, help me to to use this time to grow closer to you and to be more purposeful and to be more open minded and to truly learn and grow and not just do it, because it’s a duty that I need to do as a Christian. And so when I say praying intentionally you, even if it’s just what it might not, that might not be yours, that might be something else, but just truly asking God to help you and to bring that to your attention, I find that has really helped me to not use it, like I said, as a duty or a check off list, but to truly grow in my relationship with him.

Paige C. Clark 54:31
Yeah, I love it. Now. Tell us a little bit more about where people can find you about your book. Hopefully we’ll we’ll coordinate the timing so this comes out right around the book. But where can people find you online? I love

Ashley Kazery 54:45
that I’m on Instagram and Facebook as the greenest grass around the blog is www dot the greenest grass around.com and I’m also beginning to sell some of my materials on Etsy. Is also on that same name.

Paige C. Clark 55:01
I love it. I love it. Ashley, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate you telling your story and sharing your heart and all that good stuff that came with it. So thank you so much.

Ashley Kazery 55:13
I appreciate that you asked me. Paige, thank you. Thank

Paige C. Clark 55:15
you, and we’ll catch you guys next week.