9 to 5 Faith Podcast: Episode 24

Paige C. Clark 00:42
Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of 95 Faith. I’m here with one of my new friends Lauren Lauren, how are you doing today?

Lauren Vander Linden 00:51
Hey, Paige, I’m good. So good meeting with you.

Paige C. Clark 00:55
Yes, happy Friday as well. And we’re getting ready to enter into a weekend any weekend plans.

Lauren Vander Linden 01:03
Oh, man. You know, I am actually preaching at church on Sunday. So I need to take some time tomorrow and go over my sermon. But other than that, we’re just going to enjoy being outside while also trying to avoid the heat. So that’s our plan. What about you?

Paige C. Clark 01:22
I feel you Oh, I was just texting my husband. I was like, I need a haircut. I need a haircut so desperately right now. And so I was like, like, my stylus isn’t available. And I’m like, Who can I find that like, can get me in in a last minute, because I’m like, so close to picking up the pair of scissors myself. So either practicing Gree restraint or finding when we all Yeah, yep, exactly. Exactly. So can you tell our audience a little bit about yourself and what you do and why we’re talking to you today?

Lauren Vander Linden 01:58
Sure, so my name is Lauren Vanderlinden. And I live in Des Moines, Iowa. I work at Principal Financial Group. So we’re a fortune 250 company. And really our mission is to help make financial products accessible to all. We we have a lot of employers who lean on us for 401 K’s pension plans, Aesop’s any retirement products. We also have insurance and asset management. So I lead our annuities operations area and so any processing that is needed for people to purchase an annuity product rolls up through my organization. And I married my husband, Travis and I like I said, we live in Des Moines. We’ve been married two and a half, almost three years now. So we actually had a COVID wedding. I don’t know Paige when you got married.

Paige C. Clark 02:47
Tell us a half years ago now.

Lauren Vander Linden 02:52
Oh, wow. Okay, so you have a speed. You’re double. That yeah, we got married. Got married during COVID. And, you know, things have been going great ever since. And, you know, I’ve one thing that I think is important to note is that I have moved around quite a bit in life. made me who I am. But yeah, Des Moines is home right now.

Paige C. Clark 03:15
Right now has it all like, why Iowa? Like why Des Moines?

Lauren Vander Linden 03:21
Oh, yeah, so I was born here. Born and raised here. I lived in Texas for a little bit. I moved to Missouri in high school and college. And then I moved back to Des Moines. I I love it here. It’s a really great city. I think it’s kind of a kept secret. But the winter like tours, a lot of people, okay, from living here, and I understand that too.

Paige C. Clark 03:43
I understand that. A lot of my neighbors are from the Midwest and they are just escaping the snow. It’s the only reason why they live here. So

Lauren Vander Linden 03:52
yeah, Paige, where are you? I’m in Arizona.

Paige C. Clark 03:54
So it is hot and sunny here. It is like 113 today that Oh,

Lauren Vander Linden 04:03
yeah. Actually, it’s around 100. Here. The last week has been really hot that Arizona is where we escaped to in the winter. Yeah. Oh,

Paige C. Clark 04:11
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We lovingly call you guys all snowbirds. Because our freeways get a little backed up during the winters because of all the snowbirds. And it’s always good time. Absolutely. Great. So I know nothing of the financial space. Have you always worked in that space? Have you always kind of been doing this? Like how did that kind of fall into your plan of things?

Lauren Vander Linden 04:42
Yeah, in college, I either wanted to be a dermatologist or a lawyer. And then I did an internship, right. It never goes, how you plan it. I did an internship back up in Des Moines for an insurance brokerage firm. And I really just was drawn to finance I’ve always liked math. So I ended up majoring in finance. And then got a job with principal when I graduated from Missouri State, actually with my MBA. So, you know, everyone in this industry says, Oh, I never thought I would be selling insurance or in retirement like it was anyone’s dream. But I was in church, when I first started my career, and they were talking just about how, you know, God has ordained you and purpose to you for your job. And I was trying to connect parallels. And you know, there are so many examples in the Bible about storing up for the winter and consider the aunt who stores up food. And, you know, when we think about that, it really is the same for retirement, which is what I work in right now. But there’s a lot of applications and biblical discussions around money and how we’re using our money. And so that is how I connected that as I stepped into this field and continue working in it.

Paige C. Clark 05:58
Yeah, yeah, that’s amazing. I think like, yeah, there’s like two, in my mind, at least, there’s two camps of thought. And like, neither of them, I think, is wrong or right, I just think that like, there’s those who are working in their space for like, some greater meaning. And then one thing that I’ve been taught through just talking through the guests on this show, is that God can use where you’re currently at in order to bless you and other areas in your life. Absolutely. And that has been like a really cool realization that I think a lot in the church we talk about, like your purpose and your calling. And like when we say that, like, I mean, at least my brain goes to like, oh, what’s your job? When really like, your job is just one piece of it. And like, God can work through your job in a multitude of different ways that doesn’t have anything to do with your job to do with your other life.

Lauren Vander Linden 07:02
Yeah, that is so true. For a while, I felt I probably had that perspective, where I felt like, Okay, I’m, I’m just working, and this is how I make my income. And now like, what else do I have to do? Forgot? What, what else do I need to do in order to have my purpose. And while I still do a lot of things kind of on the side, and I have a lot of passions, I do feel like the Lord convicted me and just said, you know, I have you in this space. And this is your mission field. And this is the world that I’ve put you in. So don’t negate it. Right? Yeah. You know, this, this is very much a calling to. But yeah, it’s tough kind of knowing where the line is between your purpose versus your job, your nine to five. You know, everyone says, Oh, if you do what you love, you’ll never work a day in your life. And then like, well, I love going to the beach. So who will pay me for that? Actually, no one will pay me to do that. So I think I need to get a job. So you know, you find yourself at this crossroads isn’t my purpose isn’t my calling. And I think it all comes down to your perspective, kind of like you were saying, Yeah.

Paige C. Clark 08:12
And it’s not limited to just one thing. I think that’s something else that like, how we talk about it gets distorted a little bit, because I’m like, it’s not just, you know, a purpose. It could be. It’s the purpose for whatever season you’re in. Right. And so, um, you know, I think it was my first episode or the second episode that I did with my guest, and she was just saying, like, she’s working. I feel so bad. I can’t recall right now. But she was working in some just kind of like, random field that she like, had never anticipated herself working in. And yeah, like, she was able to work from home and spend more time with her son. And that was her purpose for this season. And I’m like, You know what I mean? Like, it’s, it’s not so, like, clear, and like cookie cutter, because I feel like a lot of the times when we hear people preaching from like the pulpit, it’s a lot like this isn’t my purpose is to like, be a pastor. And like, that’s their only thing that they’re doing and all that. But I would argue to say that like for the 90% of us, other Christians who don’t work in full time ministry, yeah, our lives don’t look like that.

Lauren Vander Linden 09:26
Yeah, it’s funny, you say that my boss actually got saved while I was working for her a couple years ago, and now I don’t, I did not lead her to the Lord. That is so great having that connection after the fact. And she told us that at her church, you know, in their discipleship class, they said, Okay, so you just got saved. Most people after they get saved, they feel like they need to quit their nine to five, and you know, go live out their purpose in ministry or pursue something. They said, We love that passion, but don’t forget that you know, God has you where your you are. And if we all quit our nine to five and did ministry, we would be really ineffective at getting into those places where lost people are.

Paige C. Clark 10:10
Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. I love that. I feel like there’s a more to her salvation story, or I mean, maybe there’s not but like anything else that like you have to say about like ministering to your colleagues and your boss and all of that in, in a secular industry.

Lauren Vander Linden 10:33
It can be so hard. You know, I actually had kind of, I don’t know, if a faux pas the right way to say it the other day that I, I thought that someone was a Christian I referenced like, oh, just leave it in the Lord’s hands. It’ll all work out. And I could tell upon saying that they were, you know, they didn’t receive that very well, just by their body language. And, you know, it got back to me that they felt I had mentioned religion and come to find out they’ve actually lost their faith. So it’s really tricky, especially when you feel like you’re being wise and and talking to the right people. Some of the really practical ways that I insert my faith into the workplace is when someone asked me about my weekend, I don’t leave out church. That’s a great way to talk about church. If I’m preaching, I’ll talk about I’m preaching at church on Sunday, or I’m using this example. And then one thing that I’ve done is I actually have integrated the Craig Groeschel leadership podcast, okay. He’s the pastor of Life Church, and he has a really great leadership podcast. And it’s actually for business leaders. It’s not just for Christians or for ministers, I got permission from our HR area. And someone let me do it, right. I didn’t fill out a formal write sheet or anything that I got permission from our HR area, to show these podcasts to people who are wanting to be in leadership or informal leadership. Yeah, the number of people who I’ve had asked me, Hey, what was that guy’s name? Or what church like, I actually kind of like listening to him. It’s been really cool to see that. So those are just some ways that I infuse that into the workplace. Yeah, but you, Paige,

Paige C. Clark 12:23
I mean, it’s rough for me. I, I mean, not that I’m a closeted Christian at my workplace. But it is very difficult to be able to speak into the lives of people who have very strong opinions against Christians. And not saying, you know, I’ve been, I mean, there have been situations where like, things have definitely been said, against my faith and my beliefs and everything like that. Not pointed towards me, but just like, more generally speaking. And it’s, it’s difficult also, because one, I’m completely remote, I’ve never met any of my co workers in person. And the other part too, is kind of the team structure of how we’re kind of laid out is very much so kind of independent in in terms of like, you show up, you do your work. If you have a problem, you go to your leaders. But other than that, you’re kind of on your own. So it’s a really interesting dynamic to kind of find myself in but I’d say more times than not, not that I’m closeted, or shy about my faith or anything. But it’s definitely way more difficult to kind of infuse any talk about Jesus into my, into my like, regular conversations, but they know I run this podcast, so if they’re listening, you guys are welcome to church anytime.

Lauren Vander Linden 14:09
That’s great. I know. Okay, that’s what

Paige C. Clark 14:12
I was just gonna say. But that’s about like the extent that I’ve ever been able to talk to my colleagues about what I do and my failure.

Lauren Vander Linden 14:20
It can be so tough to because you really don’t want to be off putting in your approach. And yet, if I if I try to new supplement or diet pill or whatever, that changed my life, I right, of course, talk about it with the people that I see every day. Yeah, you know, Jesus has changed our lives and it can be hard to talk about. I know John Maxwell, he always he he’s coached a lot of senior leaders that yeah, fortune 500 companies and he will not talk about his faith until he’s added value to their life. So before he wants to talk about about, you know, his life and what’s impacted him, he’ll, you know, pause and wait and just build a relationship and build that trust. And I think that there are times where the Holy Spirit prompts you to share your faith and you need to be obedient. But more often than not, it is that slow process of just trust that’s most effective.

Paige C. Clark 15:18
Yeah, no, I completely agree to and like, if you look at Jesus and His ministry, and like, of course, like Jesus knew all and so he was able to speak more into people’s lives in a much quicker fashion. But I think of like, how, how was Jesus able to, specifically minister to people and like, I guess, like, turn them around, I was gonna say, convert, but I’m like, that’s not the right word. But like, you know, get them to kind of repent and turn around in quick ways. And it was, but it was through knowing them. You know, the woman at the well, who had many husbands, you know, so to speak, and all that I don’t like Jesus demonstrated knowledge of her and her experience, one because he’s all knowing. And so he knew, but like, as a model, to be able to get to know or to be able to minister effectively to the people around us. It first comes through knowing people.

Lauren Vander Linden 16:21
That is so true. So

Paige C. Clark 16:24
I once watched his one YouTube clip, I can’t remember who it is, gosh, my brain is just, it’s already on weekend mode. But I was watching this one YouTube clip, and it was this guy, he was a Christian guy. And he he goes around and prays for people and just kind of interviews people about their faith. And he goes, you know, who you never hear people talk to is like, the corner preachers, and like kind of hellfire and brimstone people and on the street. And so he went up to them and started asking them questions. And I was like, you know, what, like, just seeing the humanity in, in everyone, you know, like, yeah, in everyone was he was able to, like, go up and like, pray for these people. Not in a way that was like, stop what you’re doing, but in a way, just like meeting them where they’re at?

Lauren Vander Linden 17:24
Yeah, that’s so impactful. It’s interesting, because in our world today, you know, there’s, there might be a lot of offence or a lot of bitterness, and we categorize people. But I would want someone to just come and talk to me if they had an issue. Or if they disagreed with how I lived, or if they wondered why I lived, how I lived. Even if they don’t decide to do that to write I want someone to just talk to me about it. So kudos to him for just yeah, I’m going up and being willing to have the conversation. Yeah.

Paige C. Clark 17:54
And with people who you might disagree with their approach and everything. And one thing I say to my husband, a lot is, like, think about how much you think you’re right. About, sometimes it comes up in politics, but like even like, even with your faith, think about how much you know, you’re right. That’s how much they think they’re right. Yeah. And like when you’re able to kind of like sit with that. And just like marinate on that, you realize you stop demonizing the other.

Lauren Vander Linden 18:34
Yeah. Oh, that is so good. I thought about that when it comes to I mean, I think politics is probably the best example that we can all write to. But I just remember seeing a post from someone I know who had voted different than me in the last election. And there what they were saying was exactly how I was feeling. And I thought, okay, so we are more alike than we are different. Maybe we disagree with the solutions. Maybe we think that, you know, we’re not bought in on the other candidate for whatever reason, right? But you know, we, we all want a better world. None of us want to be deceived. None of us want people in power who are going to manipulate us, you know, and if you can focus on that commonality that is really powerful. That’s how you’re going to see change in Unity. Yeah,

Paige C. Clark 19:23
yeah, for sure. And I think too, like the the one thing that that I kind of rely on, especially when it comes to politics, but I also think like, for the majority of people, of course, there’s the people who like just up and turn their back on God and like Kherson and all that stuff. But I would say the majority of people, you know, don’t fall as like Satanists. But I think like, for especially in politics, though, we all kind of agree on the desk. destination. Yeah, for the most part, we are agree on the destination. It’s the how you get there. Yes, that matters. Yeah, for example, and like not even saying what I believe, but like, think about like the topic of like abortion, for example, people who want abortion to be, you know, freely accessible and easy. What are they doing? They’re caring for the mother. Right? Like they’re like, Okay, like, we want to make sure that this woman is taken care of. Well, people who are against abortion go like, Oh, no, we want that too. Right? Like the destination is the same. Yeah, but how you get there is very different. Same with like religion. And I’d argue to say like, most people want to end up in heaven. Right. But like, yeah, we know,

Lauren Vander Linden 20:50
people want eternal life for me like, right, most people question What happens after death?

Paige C. Clark 20:55
Yeah. And so like, I think the biggest disagreement is like, how do we get there? Like how, like, what’s the how we want to end up in heaven? What’s the how? And so I think like, when we’re able to, not to say there are multiple ways to get to heaven ain’t preaching that Jesus. But I think people are asking themselves that. And I think that when we are able to realize that, like, we’re kind of all asking, or after the same destination, it kind of like, calm, like, puts a calm in the room and gets everyone kind of like on equal ground a little bit.

Lauren Vander Linden 21:32
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think a lot of people when I see them get fired up the most, they’re fired up because they think the other person, party, whatever issue it is, doesn’t understand what we’re fighting for. And if you can say we have common ground of what we’re fighting for, then I think you’ve you’ve taken the first step.

Paige C. Clark 21:53
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So now, kind of realigning to the beginning of our talk, when you were saying like, Oh, you’re doing a sermon this weekend, which is very exciting. What does your like weekly church involvement look like? And then also also tack on to that, like, what does your daily relationship with God look like?

Lauren Vander Linden 22:20
Yeah, I love it. Before I answer that page, I have to laugh that we have already broached religion and politics, which are the two things you’re not supposed to talk about in the very true on the podcast,

Paige C. Clark 22:34
very true. But I will say I will say, it depends on what side you are on. Because, because that was kind of what I was talking about earlier is like, like, I am not okay to talk about my religion. But if you are agnostic or you know, atheistic and everything, it is okay to kind of curse God or like, roll your eyes at Jesus believers are something so you are allowed to talk about it, but it has to align with the current. What’s the hot ticket of the moment?

Lauren Vander Linden 23:13
Yeah, and sometimes you just wish that like the freeway worked both ways. Yeah, I know that there was a traffic jam on one side. But as Christians, that’s one of the best ways we can shine our light is, though they’re trying to offend us. We refuse to take offense. Yeah. I mean, and we’ll even cater to their offense. Right. And, to an extent, yeah,

Paige C. Clark 23:36
I think also just like looking out for those things to where like, you can speak truth and accuracy to situations. I’ll give you an example. My work. I work for an HR solutions company. So we are all about the rep is representation, legality, fair inclusion, all of it like that is like, there. Okay. Like more so than other companies, I will say. And so one thing that my company does that we have a really great communications team, I’m on it. It’s fine, guys. Sorry. No, we have a really solid communications team and even an internal communications team. And like my company has a couple 1000 employees like it’s a pretty big company. Yeah. And and one thing that they put out like a ton of internal comms meaning like, anytime you want to know like when there’s an there’s an all hands meeting that comes from internal comms for those listening who are like, I don’t know what that is. Or like, if there’s like, if everyone’s getting the day off, or the day after Thanksgiving, like they’re the people who kind of arranged that make sure it’s communicated to everyone. And so around Christmas of last year, because I have no This just a tendency of just in just not in our industry, but just like, culturally speaking of, you know, like taking the Christ and a Christmas like, you know, doing that whole thing of like, Yeah, not really understanding like what Christmas is about. And same with Easter. And there’s been like, you know, when you talk about Hanukkah, or like any of like, the big Jewish holidays or Ramadan even right, like you get a full an accurate picture of what those religious holidays mean. Whereas like Christmas and Easter, you don’t really. And so I paid specific attention at my work for Christmas and Easter this year, this past year. To see how they talked about Christmas and Easter. Yeah. And if they accurately portray the religious holiday that it is, and they did, but like, oh, yeah, they did. They like said, like, oh, you know, this is a Christian holiday where they believe like, Christian, or Jesus was born to a virgin Mary, or like when Jesus when Christians believe that this is when Jesus was crucified and all of that stuff. And I was just like, looking out for that, because not that I wanted to do a gotcha moment. And in case they didn’t, but really, I wanted the representation of Christianity to be accurate in my workplace. And so that is just like a little something I like if you guys have anything like that at your work. That is something you mentioned to as well.

Lauren Vander Linden 26:40
I love that. It’s so cool that you were probably in a position where you could have had influence too, but they were already on it.

Paige C. Clark 26:48
Yeah. So we’re already on it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. The question for you.

Lauren Vander Linden 26:55
Yes. So it’s, you know, what is my church involvement look like? Right? Okay, this is, this is? I’m excited to answer this question. So when I first moved up to Iowa, I was a part of a church plant, I still am at that church. But the church was launching, it was in a new church. And our pastor I had known from when I was younger, his dad was actually my pastor growing up. And he was moving back to Des Moines and starting a church. And I was moving back to Des Moines for my corporate job. And I was on the worship team at a pretty large church down in Missouri. And I told him, You know, I’m happy to be on your worship team, happy to be at your church. And I can send you resumes of people who are on the worship team, or, you know, raise the hands of people who would be good worship pastors. And eventually, he was just like, yeah, you’re gonna be our worship pastor, like, I don’t have, you know, budget to hire, I don’t have contacts, no one’s moving to Des Moines for this, like, you’re going to be it. And reluctantly, I stepped into that role. And honestly, it was, it was great for a season, I probably let it go on a little too long. I think it’s important to not confuse spending time with God versus spending time working for the church, or, you know, volunteering in any capacity. Both are important, please, if you if you’re volunteering at your church, and you’re not spending time with God, before you stop volunteering, figure out a rhythm for spending time with God. Don’t just blame volunteering, and quit everything to do your church. That’s an important piece of being a part of the body of Christ. But for me, that line definitely blurred. Yeah, but I felt like just because I was doing things for the church, I was spending time with God, and it can really leave you feeling depleted. And you know, for me, I was I was Go Go Go busy all the time. And I didn’t do a great job of setting boundaries. Something that I learned is that, you know, the person who’s asking you to do things, they’re not wrong for asking, right there. They don’t know your capacity. They don’t know if you want the opportunity. Or if you don’t, you have to set that boundary for your own life. And that was one of the things I learned. So working a nine to five job that as time went on, it got harder and harder. I probably should have stepped down from the leadership position a while ago because I was volunteer. Yeah, you know, God has timing for everything. I felt like he was calling me to step down very clearly. I delayed it a little probably a little too long, and had a conversation with my pastor just saying, hey, I’ll need to step down by April of next year. And I felt like I at first I was gonna say actually, I could probably go till September if needed. I really felt in my spirit. Don’t say that. April of next year, like yesterday of next year is what it’s going to be So I held firm on that date. And sure enough, I started and author school, the same week that I stepped down from serving as the worship team leader. And I felt like God was preparing me for that. Had I been disobedient, I’d never would have written my book. So I think it’s all a balance of spending time with God and making time to volunteer at church, but you can’t do it all. And I probably learned that the hard way.

Paige C. Clark 30:28
Yeah. How do you think that churches can not better cater to people who work full time, but, like, offer the bridge of understanding to that?

Lauren Vander Linden 30:47
It definitely depends on the church environment that you’re in, I think it takes some conviction on your part to say, even if you don’t understand why I can’t serve this week, this is important for me, and I don’t have a good reason. Like I’m in town. I don’t have anything going else going on. I’ll be at church. But today’s my Sabbath. And I know that if I don’t take this day, I won’t, I will not be able to meet the needs that God’s placed in front of me for the next week. So some of that takes conviction from us to say, I’m not doing anything wrong by saying, no, yeah. One thing that I am pretty passionate about, and thankfully, my pastor has been understanding and always was when I was in the dual role. You need a Sabbath. And for a lot of church people, if you’re doing stuff on Sunday for the church, and you work full time, I would caution you to not make that a weekly thing where you’re doing stuff on Saturday and Sunday for the church, right? You need a Sabbath and your church should be encouraging you to have a Sabbath. Yeah. I feel very strongly in that conviction. Now, there might be pastors who say, well, in the New Testament, we learned that Jesus is our Sabbath. So we can, you know, forget the law of the Old Testament, but you would never say that about any of the other 10 remnants. Yeah, you would never say that murder is now. Okay. So my personal conviction is that churches need to encourage people to take a Sabbath and understand when they do,

Paige C. Clark 32:24
yeah, yeah. And I think too, like I’ve been really blessed at, at the church that I’m currently at, and that the way that they treat their volunteers is they treat them as volunteers. Yeah. You know, like they’re not, whereas like me, I’m like, like, recovering people pleaser. And like, I will always like, like, I just Magnus start working with our young adult ministry. And I just met awesome. Yesterday. Yesterday, I just met with the young adults director, and I was meeting with him. And he was talking to me about like, oh, like, here’s, like, the different areas that you can serve. Here. I’m just like, but where do you need help? Because that’s where I’ll be like, I’ll help you. Like, I don’t care. Like if like, I have to, you know, break down chairs, like, I can do it, I will happily do it. If that’s what you need, you know, always identify where the need is. And they’re like, oh, yeah, we’ll get you on the schedule. I’m like, Well, why? Why don’t we need a schedule? I’ll just show up every week. Yeah, there’s things like that, where all I have to kind of like, remove myself from that. But yeah, I think it’s I think it’s a church culture. And I’ve never been like on staff or like in full time ministry, but I think it a lot of it is how I can only presume but it’s how church leadership trickles down the message to like church staff about these are, these are our volunteers. Right? Right. Like, they’re volunteering our time. And so, I mean, my my pastor gets all throw punchy about, that’s what he calls them throw punches. Yeah, like the worst. The hard way is the hard truth. I’m gonna butcher hard truth at the right time or said the right way or something like that. But he, he stood up said the other day, it was something on tithing and giving and everything like that. And he says, like, this was actually just this past Sunday, but he said, to have one kid in, like in ministry, for the whole year cost us $1,000. Wow. So we if you have three kids, that’s 1000. That’s $3,000 for the year. Are you giving that much because if you’re not you’re taking away from the church. Wow, like super thrilled. Yeah, I mean, specifically to like the members in the law. long enough, not the first time people there, but but I think it comes from the top down of that message of like, you know, he talks a lot about volunteerism and but the way that they treat the volunteers, or like their volunteers and not like their employees, because I have seen it done that way,

Lauren Vander Linden 35:18
completely. So, so different. And you know, there would be people when I was leading the worship team who they would feel so sad, or, you know, they would feel so bad, like declining a week or taking a week off. And I’m like, Okay, I care about you, more than I do what you can bring to the church. And that’s hard when you’re leading worship, and you’re like, I care about you so much. But if you decline, we don’t have a drummer. No. But you always have to keep that at your forefront, like you as a person are worth way more to me, like you as a brother or sister in Christ is worth way more to me than if we have to do an acoustic set this week. Right. And, and sometimes I think the pressure of churches being excellent, which we absolutely should be, we definitely strive for a culture of excellence. But that pressure can keep us in a place where sometimes it’s easy to to use people. And I think it’s just something we have to be mindful of. Because yeah, I don’t think it’s something anyone intends. Oh, yeah. And 100% what you’re saying, I feel like our church has a good volunteer culture. And I think my pastor does a great job. I would hate for any of this to reflect poorly on where I’m at. Oh, yeah. It’s just something everyone has to be mindful of. Because whenever you’re on a mission to reach people, we as Christians should all agree that that is the number one mission. Yeah, but like, we cannot be Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible all the time. Like, our cortisol does not handle it. Right. It’ll spike out of the wazoo. Yeah. So I think it’s just important to keep that in mind as you’re serving. And if you’re ever leading someone who’s serving,

Paige C. Clark 37:01
yeah, and I think too, it’s like, you know, that own personal like responsibility of like drying up those boundaries, like you were talking about earlier. Of like, they’re not mind reader’s, like, no, they, they are just operating how they know how to operate. But like, you can inform them and educate them of like, where you’re at, like, I, earlier this year, my husband had had a cancer diagnosis like a cancerous tumor. And at that time, like he was volunteering every other Saturday, and I was the Saturdays in between. And sometimes we doubled up and any Saturday that we both volunteered, we did not see each other on Saturday. And it was just like a time suck and an energy suck. And I just like told the, you know, volunteer coordinator for where I, I help out in production, I was just like, listen, like, I need to just not have my brain here. Like, I need to be putting my whole energy at home right now. And that was fine. And guess what? In September, I’ll probably be back. So you know, it’s, yeah, it’s a balance that like, but it’s something I had to draw for myself. And I would encourage any of those people listening, who finds themselves in the situation of like, hey, like, did you draw a boundary for yourself, not not to get out of volunteering, but to also make sure that your whole self is healthy.

Lauren Vander Linden 38:27
I think you hit the nail on the head, I want to tell a story about someone in the professional environment. But just to respond to that. And, you know, it’s easy to look at what we’re doing and say, Well, I have other dreams and the volunteering at the church might be holding me back. If you’re not working on those other dreams, volunteering at church is not the thing holding you back. Right? Volunteering is a really important part of being in the body of believers. But it’s coupled with setting that boundary. Right. And so the the boundary story that I want to tell you so I work for a fortune 250. Similar to your business page. It’s a large company. I worked in investor relations for a period of time, which is when we do earnings calls with the stock market. Right, right. So at that time, it was earnings call season, and our new CFO had just been announced and she was about she was kind of stepping into the role. And you know, this would have been like her first earnings call. And we scheduled the meeting at 4pm to go over things now. earnings call, you’re usually working until 10pm for two weeks straight, right, right. So we scheduled a meeting at 4pm within the eight to five work hours and she declined it and said I can’t. Connor has a basketball game. So I needed to go see my son’s game. And I just could not believe that our new CFO was able to set a bell Laundry like that and still be promoted to CEO. She was setting boundaries like this her whole career. And I’m thankful that my companies still decided to promote her. But she set that boundary. She got that meeting invite, none of us knew her son had a basketball game. Right? You had to set that boundary.

Paige C. Clark 40:18
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I think to like, things that come up with like, work and whatnot. I mean, me working in social media, like, especially in the beginning of my career, that was like a really hard boundary, mostly because like, I took on way too much work without saying, you know, my own boundary, but like I do working weekends. And you know, not that like that time wouldn’t, you know, get off set somewhere else. But I didn’t have that boundary in my life to be able to take a Sabbath where I like, take a whole friggin day, and like, do a whole lot of nothing. But like, even so. So I work in like, the production side, or I volunteer in the production side at my church, which means I run their social media live streams, which is also what I like, I don’t run live streams, but I’m on social media every single day, because that’s what I do for work. Yeah. So I’ve told people and like, this is like the firm thing. I said, I will volunteer Saturday, or Sunday. Right? Right. I’m not working on social media. One day of the 10 days, yeah, right. Right. Like I need at least one day to not do it. Like, you know, I always say like, if it’s a pinch, and you really need someone, like, sure we can talk about that. But like, this is something that I’m setting for myself of like, hey, like, I need a day off of working off of social media. And yeah, it’s just like how you go forward and how you set those boundaries. And I think to like, even stepping into a secular workplace might not be a basketball game, but it’s working on the weekends. Sorry, like, unless you work for like Chick fil A or a bank or something like you’re you might have to work a Sunday like, right or whatever day you decide for your Sabbath. Yeah. So you know, that’s a hard boundary to set. But I always advise people do it at the beginning, because it’s easier to do it at the beginning and hold it up and like start something new. Yeah, I totally agree. That’s just my own two cents.

Lauren Vander Linden 42:21
I totally agree. It’s so important. It’s cool to see that we’re on the same page with it to it. You definitely you know, you need both. I hate to see people use it as an excuse to not serve. But most people I’ve found, they’re using serving as the excuse to not Sabbath. And you need both.

Paige C. Clark 42:41
Yeah. I’ve never really thought of that. But like, I think that’s like a really good point. Like, yeah, it’s about and I mean, especially for like the people who are doing the surveying, like above and beyond, you know, kind of like what your typical churchgoer is probably doing. I think those are the people i What is it? The Enneagram tos, the TOS, who are the helpers? Oh, the twos are the helpers and the threes achieve. So yes, the twos and the threes, we need to have a talk like, yeah,

Lauren Vander Linden 43:14
I am a three and I’m a three wing two. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That actually, it’s interesting, because I know in our dialogue before the podcast, you know, one of the questions you asked was, what’s one of the hardest things you struggle with with your faith? And mine would definitely be earning my salvation earning right standing with God. Thinking that, you know, a performance based faith. If I if I didn’t read my Bible today, it’s a, you know, a day negative one. Yeah. Today, if I didn’t read it in the morning, because it needs to be first fruits. It’s a down. And my grandma really spoke some truth into my life recently. And she was a pastor’s wife. My grandpa was a pastor. And she just said, Lauren, I couldn’t get up early for that, you know, 21 days of prayer, or even just like they had a Friday morning prayer service. She’s like, I felt like I was going to throw up the rest of the day. Like, I slept in. I went and did my job. And then I spent time with the Lord when I got home. And I think remembering that, you know, if you convince yourself that by volunteering more and more and more that you are somehow in better standing than the person who has set boundaries, I hate to break it to you. You are only wearing yourself out.

Paige C. Clark 44:37
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then also like, it’s like a heart posture. I mean, like, you know, it’s like the work thing like none of us want to work like but like, we end up we do it and same with volunteering. You’re not always going to want to volunteer but like, it is something that like you know, that is sorry, you know No, that is something that we are called to do as the body of Christ. And, you know, taking it into that versus like, I’m achieving, like, I need to get this done. I need the a plus I need the gold star. You know, there’s different heart postures. And I think at the end of the day, like, that’s what it really comes down to, at least for me.

Lauren Vander Linden 45:21
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So important when you’re serving, and you hit the nail on the head, the heart posture. Yeah. And anything, right?

Paige C. Clark 45:28
Yeah. Now, Lauren, thank you so much for joining us. I always like to end up and our show with one very fun question is, what is something that our audience can walk away with today after listening this episode, and they can go and do to help them grow their faith, whether it’s a practice or a discipline, and not doing it for the gold star, but doing it for something else doing it for our faith, growth and relationship with God?

Lauren Vander Linden 45:58
I think one of the biggest things is, especially for people who are working full time jobs, or have really busy schedules, you know, maybe your kids wake up early in the morning, as early as you and you just can’t fit in a Devo. Don’t underestimate what one verse when two minutes of prayer, what one worship song where you turn it on, and you you’re able to shut out the rest of the noise can do for your spiritual health. I’ve seen that in my own life where when I even just don’t go to bed unless I read one verse of the Bible. I am amazed at how God uses one verse to reset me and reset my heart. Get me in a better, you know, posture, have more faith for things, you know, God’s Word is living an active. So don’t underestimate what even just one verse can do. Don’t get in the mindset that because you can’t spend an hour on a Saturday morning and God’s word, that he’s not going to be able to change your life and impact your life through it. Yeah. And then just another tangible thing with that. For me, listening to worship on a regular basis, or even just Christian music really helps keep me connected to the Lord, when maybe I am not prioritizing quiet time with God. And of course, I always want to, but I don’t. That’s just the reality of it. But I always noticed the difference when I start listening and not that all secular music is bad. But when I start listening to two different things, worship music is what resets that mindset I heart and it helps me be the best version of me without really thinking about. Yeah, so I would encourage your listeners to do that. Yeah,

Paige C. Clark 47:46
that’s a great point. I I definitely work out to worship music

Lauren Vander Linden 47:50
and Christian music. Yeah. And KB you listen to KB?

Paige C. Clark 47:53
Yes, yes, I have k, maybe I’ll put like this in the episode link, but I have an entire playlist. And it’s all it’s all clean Christian. But it’s like it’s a good playlist and I need to 45 minutes long, but it’s like a good workout playlist, and I call it sound good jams. And that’s like my workout, but I usually go to so I have to link that in this episode. Yeah, yes. Now Lauren, where can people find you? Where can they learn more about you get in touch if they want to follow you and your musings.

Lauren Vander Linden 48:29
Yes. You can find me on Instagram at Lauren dot Vanderlinden. I have a long name. My husband was Dutch. So you can find me on Instagram. You can find me on YouTube. If you search Lauren Vanderlinden I have sermons that will come up. And I actually have a book coming out in the spring of next year, spring summer of next year. And I’m so excited. I think it’s really going to help people and it’s all about forgiving, releasing bitterness and moving on from past hurt. Oh,

Paige C. Clark 48:59
I love it. Thank you so much, Lauren for joining us is a true true pleasure. And we’ll catch you guys next week.