9 to 5 Faith Podcast: Episode 16

Paige C. Clark 00:41
Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of nine to five faith. I’m here with my new friends, Alex and Grace; how are you guys doing today?

Alex Tran 00:52
Great. Wow. Well, thanks for having us.

Paige C. Clark 00:55
Yes, I’m so excited to talk to you guys. Because also we get to nerd out a little bit together. Because our background in business and everything is so similar that we just kind of get each other. We don’t know each other, but we get each other. Yes. Yeah. So yeah, so can you tell us a little bit about yourselves?

Alex Tran 01:16
Yeah, Grace, why don’t you start? Okay.

Grace Tran 01:18
Yeah, we, um, so we live in the San Francisco Bay area, like the Silicon Valley. And both of us are very passionate about empowering other believers to live out their faces. So this is why we connected page and why we’re so excited to be here. So in terms of work, Alex works at a company called Udemy is customer success. He’s a customer success manager and basically helps. I mean, you can explain it.

Paige C. Clark 01:45
better. What do you do?

Alex Tran 01:48
Yeah, so I work in tech. I’m a customer success manager, which essentially means I help our customers become so successful that they are influenced to retain with us; my job is to preserve revenue, and get revenue for our company at the end of the day, to put it very simply,

Grace Tran 02:10
and to help them succeed and whatever their goals, our businesses,

Alex Tran 02:14
right, so yeah, so that’s the professional side of things. On the more personal side of things. We are small group leaders at our church; we’ve been leading for, I don’t know, gosh, like individually and also together for, like, a few years, like maybe two, three years already. Married we’ve been married since this December 2020. Yeah.

Grace Tran 02:39
And for me, for work, my background is in marketing. So I used to work in tech. And the middle of 2020, both broke before we got engaged and felt the call from the Lord to transition into full-time ministry. So actually led our marketing efforts for a local church. It’s like a multi-site church here in the Bay Area. And then last year, I felt another tug from God to actually step out in faith and start getting more creative entrepreneurship, full-time content creation, and just ministry in general. So both of us now lead a podcast called Let’s unpack that with Alex and Grace. And yeah, we just love encouraging people to

Paige C. Clark 03:20
live out their faith. That’s awesome. And I kind of love the name of your guys’ podcast; when I saw that, it made me laugh so much because I’m like, That is such, like, a Christianese term where it’s like, let’s unpack that, like,

Alex Tran 03:32
no one really said, small group. Let’s unpack that.

Paige C. Clark 03:37
No one says that I’m in this writer’s group. And they have a tendency to say, say more words about that. I’m like, I know what you mean. But also, other people might not.

Grace Tran 03:50
So I say if it wasn’t words,

Paige C. Clark 03:53
right? Like, let’s unpack that. Because yes, that is very awesome. Well, thanks for kind of like that little intro. And also, you guys got married in December 2020. Like, holy cow,

Grace Tran 04:05
Pico COVID. And it was fun. The most strict district, I think, is probably right.

Paige C. Clark 04:09
Oh my gosh, that’s true. Yeah. Tell me about that. Like,

Grace Tran 04:15
it was, was it a courthouse wedding or, like, so? Get in the shuffle. It’s okay. It’s pretty fast. So technically, it was, like, locked down. But we were like, still wanting to do we had a very small, like very intimate, we had like 20, maybe 25 People in arms and just like our closest people. Yeah, we also did a hybrid with Zoom with, like, people on Zoom. Yeah, we were able to host it, thankfully, with our church because, like they had been learning through COVID, how to do church online and how to do hybrid.

Paige C. Clark 04:50
Gotcha, gotcha.

Grace Tran 04:52
Yeah, it was. It was a wild time, but God pulled through. It’s great. That’s awesome.

Paige C. Clark 04:57
I love the stories, and I’m like surprised I’m surprised zoom didn’t come out with like a spin-off product of like, like, zoom events, but it’s like for like parties and everything like we like parties or weddings or like even funerals and stuff, like something that would be like custom made.

Grace Tran 05:20
has a great,

Alex Tran 05:21
it’s a great target addressable market.

Paige C. Clark 05:25
Well, I mean, not even; it was January of this year. My grandmother had passed away. And there were still a lot of people who like couldn’t make it, not for COVID reasons, but just like couldn’t make it, and we still zoom-called everyone in who couldn’t make it to the funeral. And I’m like, you know, zoom if you’re listening. Hit me up. Alright. Sponsor podcast. Yeah,

Grace Tran 05:52
I feel like now, too, it’s changed the landscape of events; people will often ask now, is there a virtual option? Whether it’s like a wedding or like a work event? Really? Yeah, at least here in the Bay Area. For when we had, we did a ministry night a few weeks ago. It was like a launch party slash ministry night for our podcast. And we, yeah, I know, people say like, Oh, can’t make it physically. But can I join online? Oh, we’re not gonna have an online option. But thanks for assuming.

Paige C. Clark 06:21
That’s so interesting. Oh, my gosh, I like to think about that seriously because I know, like, I know, like work events and stuff, but like, conferences, but like, maybe not. Like, I don’t know, like, team building stuff and everything. It’s like, having it hybrid? Like, I don’t, I don’t know. I don’t know how I feel about that.

Grace Tran 06:44
It’s just different here. I mean, even for Alex, your work situation is hybrid and like people on screen, but also people in person, and it just depends.

Alex Tran 06:53
Yeah, I feel like it’s just different regionally to Yeah, yeah. Every place has its own unspoken rules now.

Paige C. Clark 07:02
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh, we can totally, like, feel like we could talk for hours about, like, the tech space and, what happens in there? We can unpack that. Absolutely. So how I like to kind of frame this up just takes me through what a day in the life looks like for you guys. And like how you move throughout your week and your regular day? And, like, Where does God fit in? And where does work fit in? And all that good stuff?

Alex Tran 07:37
Yeah. I guess. Do you want the ideal version? or the

Paige C. Clark 07:43
actual version? No, the actual version? Do we keep it real here? Oh, okay.

Alex Tran 07:47
Great. Well, so in the beginning, God created the world. So, in the morning, I, fortunately, am pretty consistent with my quiet times with God. So what that looks like is I don’t time it or anything. It’s just whatever my first meeting is. But I usually am always in the Word. I like to, so I read the Word. Meditate on it, pray on it. And then I take walks; I love taking walks. Fortunately, we live in a pretty safe area. So we’re we can go out safely to take walks. So I usually put on my air pods and take a walk about a 30-minute walk. And I just listen to worship music and even sing worship and pray during my walk. And I do that pretty consistently every morning. And then work comes. That’s where I’m just doing work. And I wish I could say I involve God more, and I want to do it more consistently. But what I’ve done in the past is I’ve looked through my calendar on my phone and just prayed through each meeting. Like God, what do you want me to say to this person? The situation sometimes even asks God for miracles about difficult work situations. But yeah, I just go about doing my work, and then every day looks different Yeah, every day is .different. My right. There’s no standard day for me. But the one consistent thing is that the morning

Grace Tran 09:38
Yeah, I think you can also mention if you’re comfortable, but the ways that you like minister to co-workers and even your managers and like how you integrate favorite that?

Alex Tran 09:47
Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, so we do have some Christians at work, so I meet with them, not on a consistent basis. CES, I wish it was more consistent, but I meet with them just to get to know them and hear about their life story. And we pay for each other as well. So whenever we have, Team off-sites or whenever there’s a more in-person event, then yeah, we make an appointment to meet, if it’s virtual is just over Zoom, and we get to know about each other, and we pray for each other.

Paige C. Clark 10:26
Yeah, awesome. And Grace, tell me a little bit about that transition for you of going from a secular workplace into ministry and then kind of onto your own; I feel like that is three very distinct and very different kinds of environments. So you’re working.

Grace Tran 10:46
100%. That’s what I was gonna say. My answer to this question is it looks so different in the different seasons of my career and work, and I was just even reflecting on, like, how back when I worked in tech,

Paige C. Clark 11:02
I,

Grace Tran 11:03
I had a very interesting it was, like, so clear, like when I brought my Bible to work, or my journal to work, I actually was not distracted. I know other people feel differently, but I wasn’t distracted. Like, I have to get to work right away, I think. I don’t know. I was just in a different headspace back then, like, I read my Bible and read journal; I did my quiet time in the cafeteria, like before I started work. And that was the best way for me to, like, get my head focused. I’m like, What is God telling me today? What do I need to focus on instead of like, rushing to, like, oh, I have to make my commute? And then I’m rushing in my quiet times, you know? But yeah, and then when I try to intrude into ministry, oh, sorry. I’ll go back later. But I transitioned into the ministry; it looked a lot different because now the ministry is everything on the outside is like, everything regarding writing looks like God glorifies or seems like it. And so it’s very easy. I think I was telling Alex this, like, when I joined our church staff, I was like, wow, it’s very easy to, like, lose your true genuine, authentic relationship with God. Because yeah, your performance for God and yeah, kind of subconsciously justify, like, Oh, this is for God, like, I’m spending time with God, but you’re not really like going deep with him necessarily. Yeah. And no one does that intentionally, either. But a common thing. And then now that I am doing, like, more creative entrepreneurship, and I think a lot of people actually are launching out new businesses, I’m seeing, it’s definitely been like, so. Uh, really rewarding, and also challenging at the same time, like seasons, I feel like I’m able to tailor my schedule, like, okay, my energy, like, in the morning, I want to just like focus on God, like really spend time with him, I’m not going to try to book meetings in the mornings at all. So I try to do all my meetings and all my interviews and whatnot in the afternoons. And then that way I can, like, be more intentional with my time with God and just like, making sure I’m not trying to rush or hurry or produce out of my own strength, but I’m really like, daily surrendering to God and asking him to lead my steps as a, as an entrepreneur. And I know you get this too; it’s like very easy for you to want to just rush and like produce things. Let’s just get this done. There are so many things to do. And you can very easily lose yourself in that cycle if you’re not conscious and intentional about the rhythms. So yeah, I feel like it’s looked like faith and work is looking very different. Um, those are just examples of time with God. But, like, even integrating it versus, you know, working in a secular workplace looks different. Working with other Christians looks different, and working.

Paige C. Clark 13:48
You look different, too. Yeah, for sure. And to be honest, Grace, like, you’re not the first person who I’ve talked to who has struggled in working in a ministry or working in a church with that kind of balance and that ebb and flow of, like figuring out, like, yes, you do church on Sunday, but like, are you working? Or are you, like, attending and participating? You know, it looks really different.

Grace Tran 14:14
And I’ll say it’s really hard to separate, like, even now and not even on your staff, but it’s like, right, because you have that experience and you kind of almost like know too much. Yeah, I have a different lens on it. And I was listening to a podcast from Carrie Neuhoff and John Mark Comer, talking about, like, as founding pastors when they left their churches like how hard it was for them to just receive because we’re so used to like decades of being a pastor and like owning and being responsible for all the mistakes that would happen yeah. So yeah, for me personally, like that’s an ongoing, like, journey and processing, but I do with God of like, Okay, God, what, what are you how are you leading me to really like make sure my soul is filled and not just like making the motions but not really necessarily like receiving from you? Yeah, yeah, and

Paige C. Clark 15:01
I think too, and I’ve never worked on staff at a church. But I think my idea of kind of how people go into it is this idea that, Oh, it’s gonna be great. It’s gonna be wonderful because, like, everyone’s Christian and, you know, while that’s true, it’s also like, well, it’s almost a little more difficult because everyone’s Christian, but also everyone’s, like, flawed. And so you’re in this like, really intense space where, like, at work, Alex, you and me, like, we know that, like, if we screw something up, like, aside from and in our own integrity, right, it’s there’s not as much of a focus lens on some of those screw-ups. Yeah, yeah, I

Grace Tran 15:47
would say wherever you work, there’s its own unique set of challenges. You’re never gonna enter like paradise, and like, everything is perfect. Because, yeah, for me, personally, I’ve seen that a lot like what you were just saying about ministry, and, you know, everyone’s broken and flawed, but you’re also like, a family and Christ, but you also like, are disciplining people that you’re working with, and everything’s blurred together. So it’s, it takes a lot of wisdom and discernment. And just making sure your heart is in the right place. Whatever you’re doing. Yeah.

Alex Tran 16:19
Yeah, I feel like in the tech space, it’s at least where I am in the San Francisco Bay Area. And working in tech, it’s, it can be difficult to be a Christian because you have a lot of values that are counter to your values. I mean, I can already think of many controversial topics. And yeah, we won’t get into that.

Paige C. Clark 16:45
I mean, we can get into that. I have plenty to say too. So only if you want to, Alex, but I’m locked and loaded on that if you would like to.

Alex Tran 16:56
Yeah, I mean, like LGBTQ. How do you respond to that? As a Christian? Right? Those are things I’m wrestling through, like, what do you do when your workplace celebrates that? Transgender? These are very sensitive topics. Right? That we had to wrestle with? Yeah. And then, and then yeah, there’s at work. It’s the competing priorities and the pressures and the deadlines and all that stuff that goes with it, it’s, it can be difficult to involve God in it. Because for me, I went on, like doing a PowerPoint deck or writing emails, I don’t really think about God as much as I should. It’s more like, I just gotta get this done.

Paige C. Clark 17:42
Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, like, I’ve definitely encountered issues that you’re reflecting and, and then some more, that, you know, we’re not mentioning of, I feel like, you know, the LGBTQ is kind of just right there on the surface that, again, it’s very nuanced, and very, you know, personal and situational. And it is hard to balance kind of your own values and your own kind of moral compass when you’re being asked to participate in maybe even a celebration of these different things that you might not agree with. And that’s hard.

Grace Tran 18:28
Yeah, definitely. I feel like that’s when your faith is really tested, like, Okay, what am I going to stand for right now? Do it graciously and lovingly, but also not compromising who I am and what I believe in. I always think of an example, I won’t say who he is, but he’s one of our friends. He was an executive at a company very high up and very worked very closely with the CEO, and he’s strong. The guy I’m talking about was a strong believer or a strong believer. And he told Alex’s testimony about, like, how, during pride month, everything was being celebrated. And he, he couldn’t like to sign his name. He just couldn’t compromise. It didn’t want to. And he stood up for that. And he actually expressed like, this is like, I like I support this team and everything, but for this, cause I personally, like my values don’t align with it. And I thought that was so bold. I was like, yeah, that is so great to be able to see an example of, like, boldness and almost a little bit like being in a persecuted, you know, right culture. I know, it can’t compare it to the actual, like, the persecuted church, right, um, countries, but in a way, I think, small in small ways. Christians, we often feel that way when we’re in a culture that celebrates things that are not, you know, aligned with biblical values. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think it’s like,

Paige C. Clark 19:58
I feel like there are small ways in which Christians get challenged that people who have a more secular view of the world might not even think of kind of the internal kind of head buddy that goes on. Like, I think of something as simple as, you know, putting your pronouns in your email signatures, and if you’re mandated that

Grace Tran 20:34
don’t get us started. Yeah, we’re talking about

Alex Tran 20:37
opinions. Yeah. And

Paige C. Clark 20:39
I mean, here’s the deal. Like, for me, I’ll give my opinion. And you guys, feel free to jump in if you would like. But like, for me, I’m like, I am not against you doing that, if that is what you choose to do, if you want to do that, that is fine. Those beliefs are counter to my understanding of how God created the world. So I do not subscribe to kind of that. Who’s Jordan Peterson? Like? Go Gosh, I’m losing the Word as compelled speech. There we go. I’m not, you know, on board with that level of compelled speech. And so you know, there are very real implications where, you know, someone’s like, no, just put her on, on your, on your email signature, like, what’s the big deal? And then for me, I’m like, No, that actually, like, it means a lot to me to be called a daughter of God. And I hold that really in high esteem.

Grace Tran 21:47
Yeah, it’s really, really tricky. We are actually two; I’m thinking about this topic a lot. Because she this past week, I recorded an interview with one of my friends who used to live a very openly gay lifestyle. But Jesus met her and encountered her so powerfully that she left that relationship. Wow. Plus, years, and now he’s a full-time missionary in Mozambique. And yeah, we’re really excited to, like, share that episode. But it really just reminded me again that there’s so much confusion in our culture, right? Like, there’s so much that the enemy uses to make it seem very good on the outside seems like everyone has sepsis or must be right. And the sad thing, the danger, I think that we see, especially in Liberal areas, is, like, it’s very easy for Christians to forget, like, What does God actually say about these things? Because you’re constantly surrounded by these influences. And so yeah, there’s a lot of deception. That’s why it’s more important than ever, I feel, and we talk about this a lot. Like, like, increasingly, we see darkness in our culture. And so it’s more important for us to guard our hearts, guard our minds, and make sure we are very consistent and investing in our relationship with God. Because if we don’t every day, we have so many things coming at us that are trying to lie and take us away from God’s truth. And yeah, just like how does compromise?

Alex Tran 23:14
Yeah, I feel like it this can really reverberate to many different areas that seem neutral as well. So like, here, I can only speak for the Bay Area, but there are a lot of compromises with money and career sleeping around. Yeah, and it’s very easy like me working in tech, it’s very easy to be swept into that. Fortunately, I’m married, so I don’t write mostly brown, but I often hear about it often. Yeah. But like one example is something as neutral as money. Like even as Christians, we hang around so many, like Christian tech people, but they have a bent towards making more money. Not it’s like wrong with it. But sometimes, it can be an idol if you’re too obsessed with it. Right? Yeah. You’re not being watchful of your intentions and where you’re placing your attention,

Grace Tran 24:19
right? Yeah, like because money and anything like jobs, career, anything, it’s like a neutral thing. But when it becomes idle when you’re so obsessed with it, you’re casually talking about it, like every single conversation, and yeah, that is like a sign, you know, like, oh, make sure you’re not putting your foundation security on these things that the world is gonna tell you as like, this is what you need to live a fulfilled life.

Paige C. Clark 24:39
Yeah, and one thing, too, that I have really been kind of just mulling over, especially in the conversation of, you know, gender and sexual orientation and all that is, and it has to do with our careers too, is where do we get Our identity from, and I think to like, our culture doesn’t necessarily accept this idea that we get our identity from something that is much bigger than us. And that, like, My identity is not who I sleep with or how I want myself to appear to the world; my identity is in Christ and in Christ alone. And, you know, you’re talking about money, and you’re talking about promotions, like even that stuff, I’ve noticed, it’s really hard to avoid people who are unable to detach their personal identity from their work identity.

Grace Tran 25:42
100% Yeah, I think I noticed this, or we talked about, like, noticing this when, like, you meet someone for the first time. And the first thing they say, it’s like, it’s like, they’re almost telling you their LinkedIn profile. Like, I do this, I’ve done this. And I, it’s like, Oh, interesting. Like, why are you so adamant about others, like talking about all the things that you do? When God actually cares about who you are? Not what you do, like, you just care about what you do. But that doesn’t define you. Right. But it’s so ingrained, especially in Western, I think, American culture, we’re always talking about work. I hear a lot from, like, when I used to work with like, people in like Spain and Europe, they would always say, like, over there people talk about your family, or you like to do for fun, and they don’t talk about work nearly as much as Americans or people in the Western world. Yeah.

Paige C. Clark 26:34
Alex, anything down there? No. Yeah, I think too, like, I don’t know if either of you guys has, like, encountered this, but with kind of the job promotions. I’ve told this story on the podcast before, but like, I remember, we had a mandatory like, job ladder worksheet that we had to fill out. Like, where do you see that? Sorry? Yes, it was mandatory.

Alex Tran 27:05
Wow. Nothing? I’ve never heard of something mandatory except compliance training. No, no,

Paige C. Clark 27:11
no, this was like, like, you had to fill it out as part of, like, your yearly review. And you had to fill out like your, you know, career journey ladder thing that of like, what do you want to do? How do you want to get there? And what are the checkpoints along the way that you’re going to make sure you are getting there? Like, I just want to bring home a paid check. Oh, can I continue to get paid? Like, that’s my career group.

Grace Tran 27:41
It just shows again, like, the differences, kind of like what you were saying earlier, like, people don’t think about how much that small thing might mean to someone with different values. Because I’m thinking from, you know, his point of view, they’re probably like, oh, like, this is a great culture building thing, like we are employees when you support them in their career path. Because that is an increasingly big thing that people look for with their managers is like, do you support me not just in my role, but like my whole career journey? But I totally agree. I think back to when I was working in my second environment; I would cause like questions like, what’s your five-year plan? What’s your 10-year vision? I’m like, I

Alex Tran 28:19
know, my one-day plans.

Grace Tran 28:24
I have no career ambition. I mean, I just want to do a good job. But honestly, I’m here for a quest mission. And I’m not really like thinking about getting to the director level. I don’t even know if I want that. Yeah, I’ll just say the same thing, even for him, like not being sure, like, when people ask him.

Alex Tran 28:43
Yeah, honestly, I used to like earlier in my career, in the early 20s. I was; I actually did have a 10-year plan. And then I got older, and I realized, oh, wow, nothing really happens. So I’m just like, scrap that. Yeah, I had plans to go to Harvard Business School and, you know, go into consulting. But yeah, I definitely haven’t done any of that. Nor do I want to, or was I going with that? I just,

Paige C. Clark 29:17
you know, titles and, yeah,

Grace Tran 29:19
like there’s so much importance and value that society assumes that you should just have, and that’s just what we get confused about as Christians like, oh, shoot, should I care about that was wrong? Yeah, I might not care about that. But I do think that when it comes to planning and vision, I think God will give you his vision for your life. So don’t if anyone’s like listening or watching can relate to that. One thing I’ve been learning, especially in my own entrepreneurial journey, is that, Oh, the vision that God gives each person is different. And that’s why this whole time, I haven’t felt like I fit in a box because we’re not meant to all fit in the same box. So yeah, don’t measure your ambitions or your dreams or whatever it is with what society tells you You should have because there’s no, like, right answer. Yeah.

Alex Tran 30:03
Yeah. There’s a Bible verse that I’ve been meditating on recently. That’s speaking to me this season. I forget where it is in the Bible, but it’s something like contentment with godliness is a great game. And I feel like we don’t. We don’t live in that kind of society that values godliness, righteousness, character, and then contentment. Yeah, yeah. Just like, Hey, I’m happy where I am. I am content. But we’re always, especially, you know, being in tech too. You’re subconsciously chasing the next thing, your next role, promotion salary increases. But honestly, God just wants us to be content. And now that I’m older, before I have plans now, I honestly just want to do stuff I enjoy. I just want to, like, work in the intersection of my passions, my talents, my personality, and the need and the needs of the world. I think there’s a graph that shows all that. Yeah.

Grace Tran 31:15
Can I add one quick thing? Like, yeah, it’s related, but a little bit of a tangent, but I just felt like, I felt like God like really impresses on my heart. I like when we talk about, like, contentment, and just like not these things that seem countercultural, right, like one example I was thinking of in tech, especially as we’re always talking about year over year growth are measurable impact, like what’s, don’t tell me like what you did tell me your impact, like, there’s so much value on that. And, again, on the outside, it’s like, oh, yeah, that’s really good to think about your impact and measure your growth, like we all want to grow, grow this good thing. But I felt really convicted like this past season; God was speaking to me about sometimes the kind of growth he’s doing actually doesn’t even look like growth on the outside. You can’t even perceive or measure it. You can apply that not just in ministry or business or work, but also your personal life, your spiritual growth, you know, some dry season you’re in, you’re like, what, what the heck, like, why am I not seeing more fruit? And I just think that thinking that society and a lot of our workplaces drilled into us, like we have to always be outwardly growing. And seeping into some ministry mindsets, it can become unhealthy. If we’re like, constantly expecting, it has to always look a certain way when you look at the Bible. And Joseph had a dream, but then he went to prison. Everything went backward for him, seemingly right. But God was just preparing him for that, that call calling and saying with David being anointed, right, but then he was still a shepherd. Right? And it’s like, I think as Christians, we often, like, forget that growth and what’s like, good in God’s eyes. It’s just not it’s not the same as how we measure that in our society.

Paige C. Clark 33:03
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I completely agree. And I can completely relate to everything you guys are saying because I feel like there is this real pressure on people who are especially in kind of more white-collar roles to just kind of buckle down and, like, predict your future. And I remember, like, when I was in, like, this review, when I was like, filling out that mandatory worksheet of like, where are you gonna be in five years, I was like, I don’t want to be working here in five years, like, like, I want to, like have my book published in five years, like it like me in five years has nothing to do with this, this or my job, like, has nothing to do with that. Right?

Grace Tran 33:48
How honest should I be? Right?

Paige C. Clark 33:50
All right, like, do you want? Do you want my honest truth? Or like, just kind of, I think you, you should, I should be saying here. Yeah. So but I,

Grace Tran 34:00
I think it’s also like those points, though, are revealing to you what are the things that God really has is stirring in your heart. Because I remember having that exact conversation, I would say, now is 2023. It was like 2018 2019. So about four-ish years ago, like my manager back in my, my tech role, asked me that same question, like five years from now, where do you see yourself and I was like, honestly, I didn’t say like ministry, like, explicitly, but I was like, I really, how this passion. I don’t know what it looks like, but I want to inspire people with my stories. I feel like, you know, I just have a lot of stories and experiences and things that I learned that I want to like use to inspire people to live out their potential and live out their calling. And I remember how ridiculous it sounded when I said that I just felt so silly. But then four years later, it’s not even five years yet, but four years later, this is actually happening through our podcast through what we’re doing. And that’s another arrangement to anyone listening is like, don’t feel like, Oh, those ideas and dreams have nothing to do with what I’m doing now. So it must not be realistic. Because it really is. It could be like God’s planting seeds. And he’s just excited to show you how it’s going to come to fruition later on.

Paige C. Clark 35:16
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think too, like, that kind of awkwardness. It’s, it puts Christians who have to answer those types of questions in a weird place because I can explain it, but the person on the other side probably doesn’t understand. Right, right. Yeah. You know, I want to say I want to tell my stories and habit and change people’s lives. And they’re like, Okay, like,

Alex Tran 35:43
I want you to meet your OKRs. Right.

Paige C. Clark 35:46
Oh, my gosh, yes. And so, you know, it’s, I think, I think that like, awkwardness is like a reason why I don’t want to speak for you guys. But a reason why, for me, I’ve, like, held back in speaking my faith in the workplace, and I hope my behavior has shown, you know, that I love Jesus. But I, it’s all awkward to speak to it because people just don’t understand.

Alex Tran 36:17
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I talk about faith a bit at work, but I don’t share Jesus that much. Obviously, behaviors and actions speak louder than words. But I think I, I feel like I’ve been thinking about Revelation lately, just like the second coming of Jesus. And I think we all feel like there’s a, there’s more of a sense of urgency to take bigger risks. And so, even today, I was talking with my manager about our podcasts and how she never asked what it’s about. But I did say it’s about my faith. So

Grace Tran 37:01
she’s seen all your LinkedIn posts. Oh, I’m sure she knows.

Alex Tran 37:04
Yeah. No one asked. It’s so awkward. But I’m just more outward about it. And unashamed. Like, yeah, so one thing is one practical thing I do is on LinkedIn, as a customer success manager, you tend to have a more LinkedIn connection. Yeah. As you grow in your career, clients, yeah. Yeah, with my clients. So and just like the companies you work for and just the people you meet to. But one thing I do is share my faith on LinkedIn because the algorithm is great. And it gets more views than Instagram or Facebook. And also, it’s such a vast mission field if you think of it that way. Because many people on LinkedIn aren’t Christian, but on our Facebook and Instagram, our friends are mostly Christian. That is so true; I definitely share my faith, I give glory to God whenever something good happens, and I share it. Yeah. And it’s just a way to make disciples of all nations.

Grace Tran 38:12
Yeah, I think on the topic of specifically work, like, if you think of all those platforms, LinkedIn is the most, like work-centric, that’s where everyone’s saying, I’m humbled to announce my promotion. And like, you know, everyone’s kind of like, side-eyeing each other, like competing and trying to climb the corporate ladder or climb whatever ladder, you know, and, and if you see like a countercultural pose on there, it actually stands out even more. So even when Alex was talking, I was thinking about, like, the layoffs or many waves of layoffs that happened, right? And I remember both of us posted things that are like just reminding people like, hey, layoffs are really hard. And we’re so sorry for people who are going through it. But I also wanted to, like, give you guys a gentle encouragement and reminder that your worth is not in your work. Your performance doesn’t dictate who you are, and, like, wrote things that again, I think, I think we did mention our faith, but just wrote things to be a light in the darkness because there was so much grief going on and people being so angry, so anxious. And I think when you see that happening, maybe like just ask yourself or ask God what some ideas are. What are some ways low-hanging fruit that I can step into that place of darkness and be your reflection? Are you the light of your reflection on your truth?

Paige C. Clark 39:32
Yeah, and that’s one of the reasons so I wanted to start this podcast because I’m like, I feel like there’s like a lot of, like, secret Christians out there. Like, not so much.

Alex Tran 39:43
There definitely is, yeah; when I posted on LinkedIn, a bunch of them came out.

Paige C. Clark 39:49
And I think too that’s just like an encouragement for us to step out in boldness, you know, and step out and courage because like the bait, yeah Because like people will help me too, or like, yeah, that’s me. And then you can have a further group of community than you had originally anticipated. And also just like make more of an impact on your workplace.

Grace Tran 40:15
That’s huge; I’m very passionate about that. Like, the fact that most people try to, they’re like, Oh, I know, I have to be on a mission for God. But then you’re trying to do it alone. When whenever you go on a mission trip abroad, you always go with a team; you always have people praying for you intentionally, like, we’re not meant to do a mission alone. And I think a lot of people get that, get that wrong. And then they’re like, Oh, why is it so hard to feel frustrated, because like God designed you to, like, partner with other believers, whether it’s maybe it’s not in your company, necessarily. It could be in your industry, or in your area, whatever it is, but I have seen personally, like, so much fruit come out when I’m not doing things by myself when I’m, like linking arms with other believers in my workplace or in my area, and just being like, Hey, we’re both doing this. We’re both trying to, like, bring heaven into this workplace. So how can we like do that together? Yeah. And I always, like, make the analogy of, like, The Avengers, you know, like, you see, like, Captain America is so cool. And like Hulk, so cool. But then they always have weaknesses, everybody has weaknesses, and only when, like, they all come together. That’s why it’s so powerful whenever we see superhero movies, and like, everybody comes together, like, get each other’s backs, because that’s exactly what we’re designed to do as Christians. And, you know, Alex has a lot of, I don’t know, if you want to share, like, some testimonies of how you found Christians at your workplace, and then how you, like, started praying with each other and just feeling that encouragement. Like you’re not alone. You’re not the only Christian trying to like to do your Christian thing.

Alex Tran 41:44
Yeah, in every company that I’ve worked for, I made it a point to connect with other Christians. Some companies harder than others, I would say, like the company now, probably, I can count the number of Christians on the one hand, unfortunately, you know, of that I know of yeah, that have come out. So to speak. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, really just, I make it a point to connect with them, to pray for them, pray with them, get to know them, and just rally people together. I think one of the most memorable times I’ve had was; I’m not going to name names and companies. But at a previous company, one of the executives, like a C-level executive, was Christian, and he invited me to go to what was a work conference. So he invited me and a bunch of other Christians who go to his hotel room and just have fellowship and pray for one another. And that just sparked, like, so many things for me. And after that, I began to intentionally connect more with Christians. And yeah, really rally and pray, pray with each other. And I’ve sort of carried that over to other companies, too. Yeah. And

Grace Tran 43:07
then that’s also recently found out that one of the directors on his team is Christian. He’s like, what I had no idea, but because she had commented on one of those podcast posts, she was like, Why is she Christian? So it’s like, always, the more like, you’re just naturally a light. And the more you like, pray, pray for, and seek out other believers like God will highlight and bring them into your life and might not be immediately, but like, I do think it’s so powerful to look for that and know that you’re not supposed to do it alone. One other, like many testimonies to, I remember, like, talking to this one particular person, like I knew he was Christian, but I would, you could, you could tell he wasn’t very like confident about, like, bring his work, bring his faith to work. He was like, Oh, this is where I work. And then faith is kind of like on the side, like my rifle thing. But then many months after, I talked to him because we just connected, and I was like, sharing with him, like, you know, there’s a lot that I feel like God wants to do in our workplace. Many months after, he just suddenly randomly reached out to me and was like, Hey, Grace, I really feel like God actually wants me to start bringing my faith into my work more like, I kind of had this like vision or thought of like, just praying together and like maybe starting a prayer group. And what’s crazy is like, literally, I think it was that week, like the week before. I had the same conversation with another girl I was talking to who said she was starting to also like pray more and intercede for our workplace. And so I was like, Wow, that’s crazy. Well, let me like, connect you guys because you guys had the same vision. Fast forward. It’s been like, I think, it’s been at least six or seven years. And that group to this day is still existing in two people, but three of us, I guess, three of us meeting together every week. And it grew to a global thing where like, I think, 3040 People now from all over the world are tuning into that prayer and intercession group every week. And it just goes To show, like, you know, in our workplace, we talked about the importance of meeting and collaboration and, like, not doing double work. You know, it’s the same in God’s kingdom, like the more we seek out connections and work together, the more we can synergize and be like, wait, I have that vision. You have that vision. Let’s do it together and see what he does from that.

Paige C. Clark 45:18
Yeah, that was a very marketing term, by the way. Synergize very marketing. That’s a tough

Grace Tran 45:25
business jargon inner. Okay, no,

Paige C. Clark 45:29
no, I did get this resigned. Oh, like, my ears perked up. I was like, yeah, that’s like one of those 10 Point words. And if you’re listening to this, and like, you’re hearing this, like, maybe it’s, it’s you, who needs to be that light in, in your workplace? And to step out in bold this, because if, if it’s not someone, then who, right? Like if it’s not going to be you, then who’s going to do it? And, maybe God wants to use you as kind of that. You know, that hub to kind of turn things around?

Grace Tran 46:07
Yeah, exactly. It’s like that cool. Like, be the change you want to see in the world is, I think thing when you’re thinking if you there’s burnout in your heart, like, where’s my where, why isn’t this happening? Why isn’t that happening? Like it could very well be God is asking you to be the one to start and initiate and lead something and don’t put pressure on yourself. It has to look like this amazing, big movement. And just like that little step of obedience, that’s what really matters. And yeah, I’ll come up to God like what he wants to do. But yeah, I think often we get in our heads about like, Oh, I’m gonna like a powerful leader, or, you know, I can’t; I’m not a minister, like people are gonna judge me or, you know, I’m gonna say the wrong thing. And that’s just the enemy trying to dissuade you from doing God’s work. Yeah. Oh, yeah, sure. That’s why it’s so powerful to link arms with other people because then they can you can encourage each other instead of Yeah. What about, like, I can’t do this?

Paige C. Clark 47:01
Yeah, that’s absolutely beautiful, too. And a fun fact, that’s how this podcast started because I had this idea for five years, five years. And

Alex Tran 47:11
wow, congrats. Taking the step.

Paige C. Clark 47:15
Thank you. I was like, Yeah, this still doesn’t exist in the world. Post, pre, and post-COVID. So I might as well do it. So that’s how we landed here. All right, you guys. And to kind of wrap up this conversation. I always like to leave our listeners with something that they can walk away with and implement in their lives today, this week, this weekend, whenever they’re listening to this, to help their faith grow to help their discipline, and spiritual practice grow. So what can they do? What do you do that they can do in their lives?

Alex Tran 47:55
Well, there are so many things, gosh, which just choose which one to pick. Okay, really practical one. When you’re communicating with people, whether especially through email or we use Slack, pray for them. Super easy. Pray for them. Ask God, what do you want me to say? How do you want me to write this? And just that’s just the practice of involving God in your daily life?

Grace Tran 48:26
Yeah. For me, I would say, oh, gosh, I’m so tempted to do too, but

Alex Tran 48:31
I will just do one.

Grace Tran 48:35
Yeah, I would just say, ask God, how can I partner with you, God in whatever you’re already doing? How are you showing me how you’re already moving in my workplace or in whatever sphere of influence? God doesn’t expect you to create your own waves like you don’t need to create something out of anything. Like he’s already always moving and working. It’s just about hopping on his train, like getting surfing the waves that he’s already making, and asking him like, what’s my role in it? And you’ll be very surprised, like, once you start intentionally asking God, he’s gonna open your eyes to see how he’s working and how you can be light and how your why he picked you to be there at this specific time and place. So yeah, I think that gives you a lot more clarity and vision for your kingdom purpose,

Paige C. Clark 49:28
wherever you are, and be willing to act on it. Yes,

Alex Tran 49:31
yes.

Paige C. Clark 49:33
Awesome. You guys. Thank you so much for joining us. And where can people find you and find the Let’s unpack that podcast?

Grace Tran 49:40
Yeah. So the podcast is called. Let’s unpack that with Alex and Grace. There are actually a lot of lessons packed by podcasts. So it’s the one. I mean, you’ll see her. Yeah, so yeah, he’s talking about all sorts of things just like real life. We love talking about faith and work too. That’s actually one fact. It’s one of the reasons why we even met was because I was talking about faith and work, and Alex slid into the DMS. That’s a story for another time. You can find us on Instagram outside with the trans. That’s my last name, Tran. And also Facebook and all the other social media. So

Paige C. Clark 50:16
awesome. Thank you guys so much. And we’ll have to do this again. absolutely for sure.

Alex Tran 50:22
Yeah, yes. Thanks, Paige. Yeah, thanks.

Paige C. Clark 50:26
Thanks for joining us. If you liked what you were listening to, make sure you subscribe and hit those five stars, and we’ll catch you on the next episode.