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  • 9 to 5 Faith Podcast: Episode 7

    This is a transcript from episode 7 of the 9 to 5 Faith Podcast with Paige C. Clark.

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    Paige C. Clark 00:36
    Paige C. Clark and you’re listening to the nine to five faith podcast. All right, everyone, I am here with my friend Felicity and I cannot wait for you to hear all the genius she is ready to share with everyone. How are you doing today?

    Felicity Buddig 00:53
    I’m doing well. It’s Ash Wednesday and pouring rain in Chicago and it’s cold. So sights that things have been fantastic. Paige, it’s a pleasure to be here with you.

    Paige C. Clark 01:05
    You too. So can you tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do what your day looks like, all that stuff, how you spend your time.

    Felicity Buddig 01:15
    So I am a writer, author, speaker, mentor, mom, wife, stepmom, animal lover, cook chef made. And I own a brand called cheese u which is a brand for midlife women who are looking to reinvent and rediscover who they are. So that’s a little bit about who I am. And through all of that, we just keep juggling my girlfriend. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 01:52
    I was talking to a friend and she’s like, we don’t find balance, we find harmony, there’s no such thing as balance. We can only figure out how the chaos works together. 100% There is no such thing as Beyonce. You always have flow yoga be damned. So can you tell me a little bit about kind of your faith journey and kind of what that has looked like over the past few years?

    Felicity Buddig 02:20
    Yeah, that’s a fantastic question. So I was born and raised Catholic. And I think you probably hear that a lot. Like I was born and raised Catholic, we Catholics are either all in on it, or we were born and raised, and we don’t practice. And so that was the longest part of me. I was born and raised in didn’t practice. But it wasn’t until God put me on this journey. He was like, I’m really gonna make things hard for you. Because yes, and he put me on a really, really hard journey really, really hard, painful way emotionally. And then the light bulb finally went on, and I’m like, okay, so I get it. And that’s over the past, I would say, God, seven or eight years, I’ve been growing my my faith, my relationship with God. i It’s beautiful. You know, it’s been painful. It’s been, you know, screaming, why, you know, people can read about that. And my upcoming book, how hard my life has been. I feel like Job, if that makes any sense. If you’re familiar, okay. So people who are familiar with like, that’s like, how my journey has been, like, Why me? And then the light bulb comes on. And then I’m like, Okay, so now I understand. But he’s like, going to make it a little more tougher for you. And so that’s that forgiveness component. For my personal story, but that’s it. I do go to church to get the Eucharist. But I mostly practice just a little bit of here, a little bit of there. I haven’t found a place to call home. Yeah, brick and mortar. Because that’s home. This is our temple. We know yet, but the brick and mortar I haven’t found yet.

    Paige C. Clark 04:14
    Yeah. Yeah. And where did your company kind of find its way in that journey? And is there like a melding of the of the two between your faith and kind of what you do on your day to day?

    Felicity Buddig 04:30
    Yes, yes. So I’m, I’m a survivor of domestic abuse, violence, just childhood whole life has been really bad. So when I left my ex husband, years ago, I made a promise to God that I was going to build a community for women that they could turn to for support and guidance on their own transformational journey, because I didn’t have that I really think women need a community that accepts, you know, diversity and all that. So with that’s where the community component came into, and then how I can serve as God through that, because that’s sort of my next promise with him is we’re starting to, we’re, we’re speaking God language in the community. So it’s always been more or less that. I don’t want to say woo or walk language, but it’s, you know, for whatever reason, our culture has made it very uncomfortable for us Christians to be able to speak loudly that I believe in God. Yeah, you understand what I’m saying? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, we are being punished for that. And so I would do universe source, blah, blah, blah. And so, my social media manager, she’s a Christian gal, and I’m like, let’s just start doing it. It’s gone. It’s gone. And that’s my way of, I’m like, I’ll push it. And that’s what you’re doing as well, too. And I think that’s what we’ll have to keep doing. Because,

    Paige C. Clark 06:04
    yeah, man, that’s, that’s so true. And I think to like that, when, when we speak about our experiences, it’s received differently by people who are non believers, then like, standing on the streets, street corner with a picket sign, right, like, because we’re speaking from our experience, and like, if anyone listening is in sales and marketing, we always know like, the heart sells, right? Like, your service and product might solve a problem, but why they chose to go with you is because of your story and your heart and your conviction. And I think that can be like really easily applied to like how people view Christians and in the workplace. Yeah. And, yeah, and so what, what kind of is a day in the life of Felicity look like, in terms of your work, but also like how you incorporate God into into your work, but also like, into your household and your family and your practice? And all of that?

    Felicity Buddig 07:19
    Yeah, you know, so we are a blended family. And I have a 15 year old son that is, on his own discovery of God, he AI is killing me. Because as a mom, we just want to say, I’m just I’m going to be, this is 100% My language right here, when when you have a child that is going to fight and resist God, and you can see the struggle he’s going through. You just want to save your child and just say, just open up the book, put the say apart, right. And he’s like, resist, resist. And so I’ve had to surrender that. And I’m like, you’re on your own journey, buddy. I so what I do in my home is I pump Cristian. We have a whole house radio. So we have, which, by the way, I love like Carrie job and Brandon Lake. I’ll camp through Laos. I’m like, because my husband doesn’t is not he doesn’t practice anything. He remover doesn’t. And so I’m like, surrounded by a bunch of heathens. And I’m like, Yeah, I’m like, we’re gonna pump it through them. And they don’t mind it. Yeah. So it’s not a continuous loom, which I don’t mind it. But I get up an hour early every morning, and I pop on my air pods, and I turn on Spotify, I’ll turn on the halo app, I’ll do that. I’ll turn on Spotify. There’s a couple of people that I like on Spotify. I’ll do that. And then the Hello app, and then I do my own personal prayer. So I get my early in the morning, and I think when we can start our day with that, and ask God to grace us with with his excellence shaped me the way I’m supposed to be through his vision. You know, it for me it. I’ve noticed a huge difference. Yeah. Giving up and scrolling through emails.

    Paige C. Clark 09:19
    Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh, one thing that actually you said ash, Ash Wednesday, it is Ash Wednesday, and it is the beginning of Lent. And one thing that my we always try my husband and I tried to do the same thing for lent the same kind of sacrifice or, you know, the same fast for Lent, just so it’s like a little bit easier that like, I’m not eating chocolate cake. Well, he gave up sugar like, because that would just be mean. But what we’re doing is no tech nology in the bedroom. So no phones, no TV Like I even like my Apple watch like nothing, no laptops, no iPads, nothing. Not only I just wrote a blog about it, but like, not only does it like help your marriage, but it also helps your sleep and it will hopefully help your spiritual life to like, kind of compartmentalize that one piece.

    Felicity Buddig 10:22
    I think so I think so. And you might be on to 40 days of sex, like, yeah, be changing them in life.

    Paige C. Clark 10:31
    Well, there’s actually, so my background is actually in psychology, I have a master’s degree in psychology. And it is very, very true of people who married couples who don’t have like TVs, or use their devices in the bedroom have better sex lives and better intimacy than those who use their phones and watch TV in the bedroom.

    Felicity Buddig 10:54
    I completely agree with you on that. And my husband, that is one of our marriage and family therapy. That is that he is like, I want her off that phone. That’s my way of decompressing. Yes.

    Paige C. Clark 11:07
    Yeah. So So I mean, let’s go, let’s go there. In a world that is very connected, and very online, how do you find time to not only just like in the morning, but how do you find time throughout your day or throughout your week to kind of unplug and like reset with God and like also your relationships with other people?

    Felicity Buddig 11:33
    Um, so I have my morning routine. And then I repeat that in the evening, God and then, you know, I’ve always talked to him. Right? As if he’s like, around, I’m like, Hey, dude, like, no, but you know what I mean, like, what’s going on? But I think when it comes to unplugging, I do my best unplugging in water. So I’m a bathtub girl or hot tub girl and I have both so but there has to be some sort of music, some sort of, I don’t want to say other stimulation around, but just where I can just release whatever attention it is. And then from my, you know, the relationships, we there’s no phones for dinnertime. There’s no technology for dinnertime, it’s put your phone away, you know, Sunday, Sundays, I am doing the Bible in a year app with Yeah, Father Mike through the Hello app. So I take my Sundays. And that’s my Sunday morning. I pop my air pods on and I do that. So yeah, that’s awesome.

    Paige C. Clark 12:40
    We are like kindred spirits. So because I love water as well. I like to say like I’m part fish. And I have a big bathtub and to be installed soon a new pool. So I feel you have like, it’s just like a red. It’s different. Water. People know though. Like, if you’re listening to this and you’re like, You’re weird. You’re probably not a water person.

    Felicity Buddig 13:06
    Exactly. You might be a fire element, or earth elements because I’m an earth element gal too. I love going I love to hike. I love going through the woods. You know, I like that smell. It’s very grounding. But water is so calming and cleansing. I mean, we’ll look what Yeah, I mean, it just it goes back to. I mean, that’s where they started baptizing people was right. So for me, I am a water girl, but you’re gonna love your pool. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 13:35
    I’m excited. But like pools are like, extremely expensive. That’s something they didn’t warn me about as a kid. And right, all my neighbors, they all have pools and we don’t because also like we don’t sit on like 200 grand in our bank account, because that’s how much tools costs out here. If you want like a semi decent one. I was like, You know what, I can wait to save up. If any of my neighbors need house sitting. I will gladly house it if I can use their pool.

    Felicity Buddig 14:04
    So I have a secured pool story for you. Oh my gosh, let’s hear it. And this is this is. So we are in Chicago and we were on an acre. So we built this big, beautiful pole. And we’re surrounded by all evergreens and we don’t look at a neighbor. And so we are pull up and we open it April 21. And we close it at the end of October so we can heat it. Yeah. And so this October this past October. I mean, we had that baby up to like 90 some degrees. It was like a ginormous hot towel. Yeah, it was amazing. And we all loved it. And then I got my gas bill and it was pushing 2000 And I just was like

    Paige C. Clark 14:46
    oh my gosh.

    Felicity Buddig 14:49
    Which we knew it was going to happen. I mean, like seeing it on paper dollar signs going up in the air and the smoke, but I gotta tell it, it was just the best and we had over two So yeah. Oh, it

    Paige C. Clark 15:02
    was beautiful. See out out here in Arizona, we have to actually cool our pools during the summer. Because if you don’t, it’s hot, it’s 120 outside and you’re swimming and like 95 degree pool water because it’s so hot. So we either ice or you have a cooling system.

    Felicity Buddig 15:21
    Yeah, exactly.

    Paige C. Clark 15:24
    So good, though. Um, so. So what? What are some of the struggles that you encounter? When it comes to like practicing your faith and, and kind of involving involving that into your business and into your home life? And like, how do you make sure you fit it in? And how do you make sure that like, it stays like centered on the gospel?

    Felicity Buddig 15:54
    I think, you know, it’s, it’s in my business. It’s in my home as much as I can get it in my home without being a tyrant. Right. I would I would like it more. I think one of the biggest struggles is getting into a Pew is, you know, I’ve made it to a couple Catholic masses, and I’m having a hard time with, with, with with the Catholic Church. So yeah, I really am. It’s not the it’s not the big see, it’s the little see that right. Yeah. And I appreciate

    Paige C. Clark 16:29
    your honesty and vulnerability about that, though, because that’s not an easy thing to admit to, in my opinion.

    Felicity Buddig 16:39
    Well, thank you. Because I’m, I’m very transparent about it. I’m yeah, I’m like, your mask is so dry. Yeah. Number one, the masses dry? Like, why don’t you like spice up some of the music, you get a younger crowd in here? And then number two is, are we going to see the fall of the Vatican? Like the I mean, look at the stuff that the Archdiocese have covered up over the decades over the centuries? And so I’m like, who’s infiltrated the Vatican? Yeah, sorry. Go there. i Yeah. So I don’t know if we’ll see it in our time. Yeah. But I do I have a real hard time. So that’s one of my biggest struggles is just finding a brick and mortar place to worship. I think, if I could do that, I think you’re gonna, I’m gonna have a bigger sense of community for myself, and for my family, and for my son. And that’s one of the biggest struggles is finding it because you know, nondenominational I think it’s pretty, but, you know, a Catholic mass is, is beautiful. I mean, yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 17:46
    I think there’s definitely, as as much as this, you know, small teach, small c church can be broken, because it’s run by broken people, right, like, is broken people trying to put it together? I think that, like each, you know, if you’re Catholic or Evangelical, I think they each have like, their own, like, beautiful elements to it. And I actually actually worked in Ireland for a while with a with a ministry out there that was working to, you know, minister to the kids, kind of like, like their equivalent of like, high school aged kids. And what was really beautiful as this ministry was going forward, was that it was ultimately nondenominational in the fact that our I guess like an denominational, yeah, so like it didn’t, it didn’t associate itself with the Catholic Church or with a Protestant church. It was Unitarian. Yeah, very neutral in that approach. And that was actually that allowed them to reach so much so many more people in their ministry. Because they said, you know, like, they agreed on the big, the big list of things, you know, the Jesus, the Trinity, you know, there’s agreement there. And the rest, you know, can be figured out within your own heart. But but it opened up so many doors to be able to like, kind of stand straddle that line, I guess.

    Felicity Buddig 19:31
    Yeah, I agree completely. Yeah. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 19:35
    Yeah. And I and I hear what you’re saying to with with finding community and I think that like, I hear you and I hear what you’re saying is like, one one is not easy to find community and find those people. But also, like I hear the desire to do that within you when you’re talking about it. Have you had have you Have had kind of a glimpse or like a taste of a really powerful or strong community within within the church.

    Felicity Buddig 20:09
    I have never Wow. I know I have never and I’ve watched so many Hallmark movies. And I have never, you know, I just I haven’t and I don’t know if that’s just I wasn’t, you know, sometimes we are closed off to certain things I could have closed off. I haven’t maybe found the right. Time. That wasn’t the right place. Yeah. You know, so I’m exploring out here in my area. And, you know, I’ve connected with some really great women out some of the churches because there’s a wonderful Unitarian Church, right down the street with me. Beautiful, female pastor that’s reforming prisoners and everything. Yes. Yeah. It’s so close. Yeah, there is a block that I have. There’s some Yeah,

    Paige C. Clark 21:03
    yeah. But I think it’s beautiful, though. Because like, even though and and forgive me, if I’m like, mischaracterizing what you’re saying. But like, even though you haven’t experienced this kind of community, like you still feel a sense of being drawn to the need for community. And I think that’s a really interesting, like, a really interesting highlight of the human experience is that we’re designed to do it together.

    Felicity Buddig 21:36
    110% Yes,

    Paige C. Clark 21:38
    yeah. And I think when we have our faith, depending on what kind of because to bring it back, we’re talking about work and like, how our work intersects with our faith. I think that you were saying your social media manager is a Christian. But then there’s also those people who are not believers, who we encounter every single day, I would say, I encounter more unbelievers than I do in my regular life at work.

    Felicity Buddig 22:08
    Yeah, we’re seeing a lot of that, to be honest with you. You respect it. I respect it. i Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 22:15
    Can you talk more about that experience for you?

    Felicity Buddig 22:19
    Yeah, I had a social media manager, I absolutely love her. She does more stuff on the side. And I don’t think there’s a relationship with God, because she’s kind of made mention on the verbiage that we are switching to, and she said, It’s gonna offend the people that aren’t. And I said, Well, it’s going to attract the people that I want to attract. When you have to think yes. You know, I am very spiritual. I am spiritually gifted. I am. Yes. So I can see both sides of the spectrum, right. But I’m going to do it my way. And they’re going to do it their way and there is no right or wrong. But if you are feeling empty, feeling lost, feeling unfulfilled, there’s a reason for that. And my relationship with God has completely turned that around.

    Paige C. Clark 23:13
    Yeah. Oh, gosh, that’s so true. And, and what I see, especially, I mean, it literally happened last week. So it’s like really opportune, that we’re talking about this. But for me last week, I don’t know what I was looking at a video or something on Facebook of a video and it was talking about Christians. And I made the mistake of going to read the comments. If you are in a negative place, stay away from the comment section because it is not a good place that fosters positive positivity. And I was reading through it and I was like, I was like, so heartbroken of like, what people write in these comment sections are kind of like the revelation of their true feelings and their true selves. While they might not say that to you, in a cubicle, they’re saying it online, and I got really disheartened. And then the Asbury, are you familiar with what’s happening as a university? So um, that’s happening. And I like kind of compare the two and I was like, we are so hungry for God, like, but most of our culture does not know what to call it.

    Felicity Buddig 24:35
    Or they suppress it, because what happened to Kanye? I’m sorry, to open it up there. Yeah. We are suppressing it. We are suppressing it and suppressing and suppressing it and it’s become such bad juju to speak that we I am proud to say that I am a Christian. I believe in God. It is I mean are images of women protesters during the the abortion thing and I don’t even want to go there with right? It’s right or I’m just the signs that they were holding up was just, it was grotesque and it wasn’t coming from a place of love. You know what I mean? And I think, for me God’s intention, if you are following him or following the word, it’s out of a place of love. And we’re not seeing that today. Yeah. And comments are scary.

    Paige C. Clark 25:36
    Yeah, it was, it was brutal. And I have learned my lesson. But it also gave me kind of a glimpse into the battle that’s even happening. Like in the spiritual realm, for us, and for people who are believers and people who are not believers and, and that battle that is going there. And I was even in the workplace, I work in a very kind of corporate environment. And like, there’s been many times where I hit my knees, and I’m like, God, I don’t know how to respond to this in a way that is honoring to you, but also that reflects you in these examples, and I think that’s some sometimes really difficult.

    Felicity Buddig 26:26
    What’s interesting, yeah, yeah. What would your coworker say? How would they react?

    Paige C. Clark 26:31
    Yeah. And, and being put in situations where you’re obligated to reply or to answer in a certain realm, but also you’re like, that’s not God honoring in my faith. And I think that’s something that like people struggle with. And something you know, your social media manager, kind of called out is like, here’s gonna be people who are turned off by this.

    Felicity Buddig 26:59
    Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you’re meant to, like, just change that. And I think we have, there’s an opportunity there. Yeah. I mean, we, we see what’s going on in the world. And, you know, we can hunker down and just pray, or we can be willing to stand up for what we believe in.

    Paige C. Clark 27:21
    Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And, and so what I kind of wanted to circle around about is one I have like, so many logistical questions, like my marketing mind is kicking in is like, when did you make this change on your social media? And what have your metrics and change? Like, what have your social media metrics looks like since you made this change? And have you seen an improvement in being more upfront about what you believe in?

    Felicity Buddig 27:52
    Social Media Engagement? Yes, I have seen improvement metrics. I had to fire that person. So I don’t know yet. Yeah, okay. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 28:01
    I got you. I got you.

    Felicity Buddig 28:04
    I was just gonna say, I found that out. I’m gonna talk to her. Because I do I want more of it. I want more of it. I do. And I would like to pair up and collaborate with some wonderful women that I see on Instagram. Like, she who worships there’s bands out there that I’m seeing, you know, my uncle page is to be out there speaking to communities of just groups of midlife women, letting everybody know that you know what you’re going through right now. It’s okay. There’s no shame to feel about it. We all have a story. We all have a struggle, but we do it together. And that togetherness was brought to you from Yeah, yeah. And I would love to pair it with some of the Yeah, the I think it’s called she who worships or something like that. It’s, you know,

    Paige C. Clark 28:59
    yeah. One of the accounts. Yeah. So going into like what you do a little bit more like why midlife women? Like what is what is significant about that sector of women?

    Felicity Buddig 29:15
    Why am one one I’m so at 42 I had my awakening, I had my earth shattering like what the hell happened? I was raised like how my family is like, what? And I went through some intense, intense, really good therapy surrounded by some really great therapists and shamans and I went back to my roots in Mexico to do some healing part of my spiritual gifts. I have the ability to see past life stuff with me so I was able to go back to Mexico and work with shamans and I were current shamans here and I Um, I think with midlife women, when we do hit that point at 42, we start to open our eyes and realize, like, I’m not everything that made me happy that it’s not your eyes are open, you’re realizing that, especially in our generation, we were trained to just do it all. And we’ve heard a lot of women climbing that corporate ladder. So there’s a lot of feminine going on right now. Currently, too. Yeah. So we’re backing off. And we’re finding side hustles. And yeah, and a lot of us are just learning to set healthy boundaries, expectations, and just starting to dabble in new adventures. And I think it’s beautiful.

    Paige C. Clark 30:41
    Yeah. Talking about the corporate ladder. And I’ll add this with the caveat of I know Jesus can do anything he wants. So if he wants to be in the corporate space, he will be in the corporate space. But in the regular American kind of business corporation, as it currently stands, do you think there’s room for Jesus?

    Felicity Buddig 31:15
    It’s sad, isn’t it? Yeah. It is.

    Paige C. Clark 31:21
    The answers probably no.

    Felicity Buddig 31:22
    Yeah, it really is. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Sad.

    Paige C. Clark 31:31
    You Yeah. And how and how do does Jesus show up at you know, I’m reaching out to a bunch of people to get, you know, all walks of life on this podcast of like, all different backgrounds. But with the common thread of like, they believe in Jesus, and I’m hoping to get some human resource professionals and some employment lawyers on here because, like, I, I don’t think it’s happening so much now. But I I can see it happening in the future of where it’s gonna be silenced. And that’s hard and, and scary of, you know, not being able to talk about your who you are. It’s not even your faith. Because when we are in Jesus, we are a new creation, and he lives in us and so not being able to be who you are in Jesus in the workplace is

    Felicity Buddig 32:28
    unfair. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. I think you need some rebel rousers. I’m like that, yeah, you’re like, triggering my rebel in me. And I’ve learned that in my little cubicle, and you’re gonna yank me out?

    Paige C. Clark 32:44
    Wow. Yeah.

    Felicity Buddig 32:47
    You know, um, I would hope not. I would hope I would not, especially with where we’re shifting because we are spiritually shifting into a new. That’s a whole other conversation, but we are spiritually shifting, the Earth is shifting. Things are happening. I think we’re, you know, I have faith. Yeah, I do. I really do. I have faith. And I’m going to tell you when it gets bad, the old saying there are no atheists in a foxhole. Yeah. And sometimes God has to rock our foundation heart before we had been there. And we’ve had many years of just good times. And so he’s like, we’re gonna make it hard.

    Paige C. Clark 33:30
    Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And because in the heart is where you find Jesus, I’m actually I’m actually working on a book of like, how to find Jesus in the easy, because I feel like that’s where most most people struggle with their faith, or struggle with the intentionality of their faith is when things are going good.

    Felicity Buddig 33:54
    I gotta think about that, that’s good. That is nine. Or you know, it all starts at home, and then we, because we just become our own individual self, right. So it really is your own personal journey.

    Paige C. Clark 34:09
    And I like to think to your saying kind of this uprising, I wouldn’t put it there yet. But kind of this merging of, of Christians, and I guess I would just say like moral Christians who are stepping up into the place that had a very hard boundary line before, and they’re, they’re stepping over and kind of crossing that of like, we don’t need just more Christians. We need more Christian Christian business leaders. Because then through that they’re able to operate their business in an ethical and moral way and allow for their employees to have the freedom to be able to practice their faith.

    Felicity Buddig 34:59
    I’ve got some I’m ready for you to interview. So my chiropractor, I go and see a chiropractor, so we won’t forget this. Well, I will connect you. And I love walking into that office because the Christian music is playing, you’ll heal some of the employees going, oh my god, I can’t take it anymore. And we can freely speak about what ever Yeah, politics COVID Just its freedom. But I’m telling you, it’s a small business. It’s yeah. And maybe that’s where we need to put the money in. But I walked in, and they are not afraid to talk about it, to listen to it. And I don’t see any uncomfortable people besides a couple employees, and there’s still plenty more to be honest with you. So

    Paige C. Clark 35:46
    yeah, my hair stylist was the same way where she she had, she has since sold her business, which I am like heartbroken about because I’m like, I have to go find someone else like this. This does not keep itself up, I have I need someone with professional help. But she was the same way where anyone was able to talk about everything and would always have worship music playing on in the background, and like you knew what you got when you went there. But also, it’s a very successful business. And she sold it and you know, it’s still successful. And so, yeah, I think we just need more Christian business owners to be able to, we need to raise them up to be able to help just sustain faith in the workplace.

    Felicity Buddig 36:37
    I think so and not be afraid because that was me as I struggled with the fear part of it, oh my god, I’m gonna put this out. I’m going to write an article about this. Oh, my God, I’m going to, and then it was a deeper epiphany that I had talking to God that I’m like, Okay, I’m going to serve you this way. You have gotten me this far and have given me these amazing gifts through My trials and tribulations. I can serve you this way by speaking it to women. And so for me, it was really fear based. And then I was just like, I’m just gonna do it.

    Paige C. Clark 37:14
    Yeah. Yeah. And, and too, I think that when we step into a spirit of boldness, we realize that those who we were those who would be offended, they don’t really know you. Because I think like, even I fall into this trap a lot of kind of watering down my face, especially when I’m like in at work and everything of like, I don’t want to talk about it as boldly as I know I can. And it’s, it’s really for fear that I’m going to be pocketed into a certain bucket, and people will see the label and put me in that bucket. When really the truth is, if they know me, and they know my heart. I probably don’t fit in that bucket.

    Felicity Buddig 38:12
    Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 38:14
    Most of us don’t. Yeah, the only people use, the people in the bucket are the people you see on the news. And that’s why you think the people in the bucket go there. Right, like, the stereotypes that that we encounter.

    Felicity Buddig 38:27
    Hmm, exactly. Yeah. That’s very, that’s very interesting.

    Paige C. Clark 38:33
    Yeah. So to kind of wrap up this conversation, I always like to ask my guests, what is one thing that our listeners can do to implement implement a faith building practice or discipline into their life? What can they walk away with today?

    Felicity Buddig 38:52
    One thing that we can do, yeah. Talk to God. Just talk, just start by talking. It’s it simply has to just start with talking. And I think from there, it usually just kind of grows and flourishes if you start talking. You know, we want to live in his excellence. Yeah, no. Yeah. be groomed into his excellence. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 39:20
    Oh, that’s so powerful. So powerful, because I think people think that when we talk about a relationship with Jesus and a relationship with God, people miss out like, what do you do in a relationship? You hang out with them, you spend time with them, you learn about the other person. They learn about you. Of course, God knows everything about you. But there’s, there’s this give and take in the relationship and it’s not just like, yeah, he knows everything about me. It’s like, okay, what do I know about God? And do I talk to him?

    Felicity Buddig 39:54
    Yeah, yeah. And dive into the scriptures. I mean, you’re talking to Right now, somebody who was a Catholic because she had to be, and just didn’t have a relationship with him for a long time. And then finally started to and dive into the Scripture. poke around. Do your own homework. Yeah, don’t Yeah. I mean, if anything, if you are that, uncertain about who he or she is, is he in my eyes? You know, I’m just poke around, dive into the Scripture. I gotta tell you, there’s some great podcasts out there. There’s some great apps out there. Jeff cavan’s is awesome. He has helped me understand the scriptures. I usually have to listen and then go to YouTube. Right. And he’s helped define the difference between, you know, living in his excellence. There’s no ego. No ego. No I on that.

    Paige C. Clark 40:55
    Yeah. Thank you so much Felicity for joining us. You’re beautiful. It was great. Thank you. Thank you, then. Awesome, and we’ll catch you guys on the next episode. Thanks for joining us. If you liked what you were listening to make sure you subscribe and hit those five stars.

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  • 9 to 5 Faith Podcast: Episode 6

    This is a transcript from episode 6 of the 9 to 5 Faith Podcast with Paige C. Clark.

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    Start of Podcast

    Paige C. Clark 00:00
    This is Paige C Clark and you’re listening to the nine to five faith podcast. Hi, everyone. Welcome to this episode. I’m here with my friend Carla. Carla, how are you doing today?

    Carla H. Hayden 00:48
    I’m doing so good. It is the beginning of March. We’ve made it. We’ve made it through February, the shortest and yet the longest month?

    Paige C. Clark 00:56
    Yes, it is crazy that like, we’re still only like two months into the year and it feels like it’s been a long year thus far.

    Carla H. Hayden 01:07
    It’s been a long year.

    Paige C. Clark 01:08
    Yes. Well, so glad to have you on the podcast. And so glad to have this conversation. Because again, I say this a lot. But I can’t relate to celebrity speakers, or infamous people, I can relate to normal people. And I think there’s a lot of people out there who are normal people. So let’s talk about life in a normal person’s, and then normal person’s world. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

    Carla H. Hayden 01:37
    Yeah, so I am a single mom of three, I have three young adult children. And my nine to five, if you will, is I am actually in a new assignment. I just started a new job about three months ago, I’m the Chief People Officer for a financial advisory firm here in Indianapolis, Indiana. It is a hybrid office of about 35 people, which is almost completely opposite of the assignment I was in for the last two for the previous two and a half years, which I was the chief operating officer for a fully remote team for an online membership community. And so it’s just really been interesting to kind of adjust back to having a local network and having to put shoes on every day.

    Paige C. Clark 02:27
    So you are working in an office

    Carla H. Hayden 02:31
    I am it’s actually hybrid. So I try to be in the office. At least three days, it’s really been more like four days a week. But I do reserve Fridays for working from home and trying to do very little to no meetings so that I can kind of keep that as my deep work day. It doesn’t always happen. But I’m also chalking that up to I’m still in my first 90 days, I’m coming up on my 90 days next week. So that’s always a whirlwind of activity anyway.

    Paige C. Clark 03:00
    Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think that no meeting days are always good at my company, we have no meeting Fridays. So every single Friday, we get out and everyone respects it even even so much so that people like apologize when they have to slack you about so I know. Like I respect I respect the boundaries, but I’m like, you know, like it’s its messaging, it would be like if you were in the office, and like you had to ask me a question like that is fair game equally.

    Carla H. Hayden 03:30
    Yeah. That’s so good, though, to have a culture where people really do respect those boundaries. Yeah. Because it it’s so what I have found after being back in an office environment after two and a half, almost three years of not being in one is I do enjoy the buzz. I enjoy that energy and kind of seeing people and having those unintentional connection points have, I’m getting coffee, you’re getting coffee, how was your weekend. But I do find for myself, I have to put like my headphones in and just really focus because I tend to be like, Oh, who’s walking by? Oh. So

    Paige C. Clark 04:10
    I’m the same way. I’ve seen something floating around the internet where it’s like someone who has assigned tape to the back of their chair and said, like, Please don’t disturb me, I will talk to you and lock you up. I worked.

    Carla H. Hayden 04:23
    It is a unique thing for me because my title My role is Chief People Officer. And so I do feel torn on on a lot of days where my job is the people, I’m the Chief of people. And so if the people need me, I want to be available. And also there is tenacity type work to be done. Even in my job. It’s not all meetings. And so I do have to be a grown up about my own schedule and just block those times. And just like what you were saying with your office, it’s people are pretty respectful about

    Paige C. Clark 04:57
    that. Yeah, yeah. And when thing I noticed when you were just talking is you talk about their your assignment, which that language really intrigues me. You’re not saying my new job or my career, it’s your new assignment? Can you tell them more about that?

    Carla H. Hayden 05:13
    Yeah, I think this came about a number of years ago for me, and, and it really came from a place of seeking the Lord for, you know, I think a lot of us sometimes grow up in a faith or even come to faith. And we’re wondering, like, what is my call, what’s my calling, and it’s this really big, ominous, like, if I get it wrong, it’s like, hitting the wrong button. And really, God just in his kindness, and his graciousness towards me, really led me down a path of understanding that my, my calling is the same as yours as a believer it is to bring glory to God, it’s to be an imager of God, that’s my calling. But the way in which I’m going to do it could look very different than the way it’s going to look for you. And, and that really came to a place also, when I went through some a relational change. I was, as I mentioned, I’m a single mom, but I wasn’t always a single mom. And during that time of change, and transition and grief, I was really seeking the Lord for like, is, is this it? So I now have to check a different box on a on a piece of paper that, you know, when it comes to my status. And is that it like that’s, that’s the end of my call. That’s it. And what I realized is that even things like marriage, like parenting, like your bank account, those types of things that are important, and weighty in this world, but temporal nonetheless, they are just our assignments and assignments, they come and go, they have start times and end times. God doesn’t always allow us to be privy to what those dates are, right. But it really comes down to understanding that no matter what your assignment is, God is calling us to faithfulness in that assignment. And so that’s really the way that I have approached my jobs, but also just the various seasons of my life. I look at each season and each opportunity, each door that God opens as an assignment and and then seek Him for how to be faithful in in that particular. Yeah, where he’s placing me.

    Paige C. Clark 07:39
    Yeah. And I think that releases so much of the like, kind of paranoia of like, Oh, am I doing what, what God’s wanting me to do? Whatever this is like going back and forth with all those questions, and what really grounds me and all of that is like, there’s nothing I can do to screw up God’s plan. Yeah. That is a very, like freeing sense of like, even if I suck at this assignment, like God is still God at the end of the day.

    Carla H. Hayden 08:13
    That’s right. Yeah. And he is, he’s so gracious. And he’s so merciful to us. And assignments are really opportunity, their opportunity for reward their opportunity for promotion, I don’t just mean that in the job sense. Like, you know, promotion, even when you think about growing up and going to school. You know, you’re moving from grade to grade. And it’s every time you’re stepping into a new grade, there’s some things that you’re like, oh, yeah, I learned that in the last grade. And I’m taking that with me and some things that are just brand new, and you’re not going to be an expert on it on day one, which I think for a lot of us is a really uncomfortable place to be. But it should be an invitation that draws us into a greater intimacy with God of, okay, this is new, but you are not, you aren’t in the dark about how to operate in this assignment. You’ve prepared this for me beforehand. And so my role is just to walk in faithfulness and in relationship with you through this assignment until the end, and that end for some people is, you know, like my mom, she worked for the same company for 50 years, she had one employer her entire adult life. And I’ve probably had 50 employers you know, it’s the opposite. And so it’s it’s not the same for everyone. And I think that that’s just if I were to issue a permission slip today for people you know, by where to put on my mom and Hayden hat and issue a permission slip it would be just be faithful to your own assignment. And, and that comes from the Lord.

    Paige C. Clark 09:50
    Yeah, I think God is doing something I don’t know what it is. But I think he is doing something in the workplace in kind of this idea of like A higher turnover rate for employees, because you don’t hear of people spending 3040 years at a company anymore. You don’t. And it’s not necessarily the regular workplace. And so I think there’s something to be kind of said about that. I don’t know what it is, but I think there’s something there.

    Carla H. Hayden 10:22
    You know, I, I’m really glad that you brought that up, because my role is one of leadership. And I love, love, love leading leaders. And one of the things that I would really encourage leaders in today, Christian leader, specifically, is this idea of that you in your role as a leader of a company of a team of a group, whatever that is, you’re really called by God into an assignment of being a marketplace, shepherd. And so it is. So such a privilege and an opportunity to shepherd people in whatever season they’re in, if that’s their first job, their first big girl job out of college, that’s your opportunity to shepherd a young person in how to carry themselves in the marketplace, whatever your industry may be. If you’re shepherding somebody who is walking toward retirement, you have such an opportunity to help them finish well. And then everyone in between, you know, doing a good job in there every day, and people who want to get promoted and grow in their leadership and management. And, you know, the way that I look at it is, I, there’s just no reason to be upset when somebody wants to leave your company, because they have a, quote, better opportunity. You know, I’ve always, I’ve always really approached my leadership of people as, okay, the Lord has sent you to me for a certain season of time, and maybe that’s six months, maybe it’s six years, whatever that is, but it’s, it’s still just a fraction of time. And how can I help you show up as your full whole self in your job, do you contribute high value to your job, and, and whatever that looks like, because when somebody feels fulfilled in their role, it’s a, it’s a positive cycle, you know, they feel they feel fulfilled, they feel seen, they feel known, they feel wanted and loved, they bring their best self, when they bring their best self, then everybody wins on the team. And so, you know, if that person is there for a short period of time, because God is bringing them there, it could be to heal from a previous toxic workplace or toxic boss, it could be a place of gaining courage and confidence, maybe, you know, they were pursuing something and something happens at their previous employer, or they this is their first time stepping into a role. It could be where it’s a bridge to the next thing, whatever that is, like, there’s just no sense as a leader to be upset when somebody leaves, if they’re good, they’re gonna leave. If they’re good, they’re gonna get poached. And it’s okay, it because God’s going to fill your hopper back up with other people that need whatever you have to offer.

    Paige C. Clark 13:20
    Yeah, and I think, I think there’s a tendency in today’s workplace to try to fit like a square peg into a round hole with it’s just like, constant like promotion, promotion, growth, growth, growth, growth, kind of kind of mentality. And whereas like some of the best leaders I’ve ever had in, in the corporate world are, have said to me, I want you to be fulfilled, and I want you to grow how you want to grow. And if that happens at this company, great, but if it doesn’t, like, like, okay, yeah, you’re free, go, go do what you need to be doing. Because I, you know, I’d much rather have a leader who was encouraging my growth in a in an organic way versus into a forcing kind of trying to make everything that way.

    Carla H. Hayden 14:18
    Right. It really comes down to alignment, right alignment, in your assignment, your company has an assignment, you have an assignment, this could be a season where those two things align. And then there could be a world in which those two things don’t align at some point. And so I I’m always going to be somebody’s biggest support while they’re in my company, I’m going to help to clear roadblocks and obstacles to their success in the company. But when it’s time for them to leave, I’m going to be their biggest cheerleader, you know, and I’m going to help them finish well, because they are going to be launching into something else, even if that’s something else is their own gig. Um, you know, I want them to finish well with where they are. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 15:04
    Oh my gosh, there’s so many good things. I’m like, let’s, let’s have you again on Carla. And we’ll just just talk about leadership in the workplace. Let’s see, I feel like that’s a secondary conversation that definitely needs to happen. But let’s talk about you. And so like, you’re in office, you’re in this new gig, you’re finding your flow, you’re finding your rhythm. What does kind of like the day to day of Carlo look like? And how do you make sure that you? This is gonna sound bad? But how do you make sure to keep your faith at the forefront and fit God into the schedule of someone else?

    Carla H. Hayden 15:41
    Yeah, no, that’s a really great question. Well, first of all, I will tell you that just like everyone else, I’ve had to adjust specifically over the last two to three years. And then me specifically, I’ve had to adjust over the last few months of like, like I mentioned that at the top of the show, like, I have to put shoes on now, I have to, I have to a lot for a commute time now where my commute was 10 steps, you know, 10, literal stairs from upstairs to downstairs, and then I’d be in my office. Yeah. I, the way that I go about it. So my everyday looks almost exactly the same in the sense that I wake up and immediately have a cup of coffee. I mean, I’m not coffee with Carla for nothing’s immediately black cup of coffee. It doesn’t have to be fancy, it could be Keurig. It could be pot brewed. It doesn’t have to be you know, I don’t I don’t actually have time for the pour over, like just gives me hot and straight. But cup of coffee. And then I do I have my my time with the Lord. And that’s always in the word, always every single day. But that is a practice and a discipline that is over 20 years in the making. You know, I mentioned that I have young adult children. Now, they weren’t always young adults, they were young at one point. And so I this has been a practice that I have developed over the course of 20 years over the course of multiple and varied seasons of time, a mom of young kids, a homeschooling mom, a mom that had a part time job, you know, a married mom, a single mom being kind of a, you know, just a cog in a wheel to now being a leader in a company and everything in between. And so, you know, the, the what that looks like for me is, I don’t even really think about it anymore in the morning, it is the first thing that I do. And it’s not always a delight, sometimes I’m exhausted. Sometimes I’ve stayed up way too late binge watching something on a school night. And I’m tired. And what I have found recently, is, when that happens, I still have my quiet time. But number one, I will choose to read the word out loud in my out loud voice. So that helps, it helps to keep me a little bit more focused. It also awakens my soul and spirit because there is power in the spoken audible Word of God. And, you know, we know in Hebrews, it talks about faith comes through hearing and hearing by the Word of God. And for me, it’s like I and even if I don’t feel it in my emotions, I believe in that power that’s happening. And so as I’m speaking out, and even if it’s just the Psalms, you know, it doesn’t have to be, you know, Deuteronomy, it could just be you know, and just saying it out loud, and allowing the Holy Spirit to hover over those spoken words and do the work within me and trust it that work. And I have found even just as recently as this week that I wasn’t feeling it when I was starting. But as I got into it, and just again, faithfulness and obedience, just as I got into it, I actually found myself weeping that came out of nowhere. Yeah. And I realized that really what it was, is it was just a tenderizing of my soul and my spirit. And that sometimes when you’re a nine to FiVER, you’re just going, you’re just going going, going from one thing to the next from one meeting the next one email to the next and, and, and then to take that time to stop. It’s a strange, it’s almost like a paradox. It’s like you’re to take the time to stop at the start of your day. And to invite God into that space. And what I love to be there for two and a half hours, yes, but that would require me to wake up at a time that nobody should be up, quite frankly. But, but I do what I can and I trust. I trust that God sees my heart in it, and it’s really it’s, it’s making that time. So yeah, I have it every morning and then I get ready for the day, take a shower, get dressed, put my makeup on. And all that time I’m usually listening to a podcast and so I’m usually listening to either a leadership podcast because As for me, leadership is my craft. And so I want to be better at my craft, I want to sharpen my my skills and my tools. And so I’m either listening to a leadership podcast that is put on by somebody of a shared faith. So not just any leadership podcast, but there’s a lot of great ones by Christian leaders, or I’m listening to a spiritual formation podcast, because sometimes my brain is overloaded with learning of like, how to be a better leader, how to, you know, improve employee engagement, how to do this, and that, and sometimes my brain is like, the can’t take anymore. And so I’ll listen to a spiritual formation podcast, I’ll listen to maybe a message that I might have missed from my church, or you know, some other church or, you know, podcast that talks about the word and I just let it I just let it kind of rain over me as I’m taking a shower, and I don’t Yeah, don’t try to take notes or anything like that. I just trust that what I’m supposed to hear, I’m gonna hear. Yeah. And then my commute to work is about 10 minutes. So long enough where I can enter prepare, as I enter into the day, at that point, I’m usually listening to like worship music or something, just to kind of, again, refocused my heart. And it’s not so long, though that I have road rage. long commutes I cannot. So it’s just the right blend. Yeah. Yeah. And so that’s my day. And then, you know, I’m usually in the office between 830 and nine and kind of there until about five, maybe six, depending?

    Paige C. Clark 21:34
    And, and how do you like, demonstrate your faith in what you do every day? In terms of your work and your job? I mean, I think that, you know, as Christians, we’re called to live a different life than the world around us. And the likelihood is the people around us are not of the same faith. So what does that look like for you?

    Carla H. Hayden 22:00
    First of all, it’s excellence in whatever I’m putting my hands to, not perfection, but excellence, it’s, it’s taking the time it is taking it seriously, I again, I look at it as being an assignment from the Lord. And I want to be a faithful steward, a good and faithful steward of what he’s entrusted to me. And so it, that’s number one, it’s, it’s not slacking off. It’s not, you know, using company time to do personal things necessarily, or, you know, even in this day and age of work life balance, it’s just making sure that I’m getting my work done, you know, that’s 10 o’clock at night, as opposed to 10 in the morning, so be it, but I’m getting my work done. The other thing is, it’s about my attitude and my posture, I think there is ample opportunity to be negative in this world, there’s a lot to be afraid of, there’s a lot to complain about. There’s not a shortage of reasons to gossip, or grown. And so for me, I again, take very seriously my role of being a marketplace, Shepherd, I’m leading those sheep, whether or not they know, that’s what’s happening, right. And so it is leadership by example, it is coming in. And you know, you don’t have to be super sunshiny all the time. But a smile goes a long way, a good morning goes a long way, just those things and, and just having a positive attitude towards problems, you know, having a solutions, minded, you know, being using my creativity to be solutions minded, versus just like getting into the muck in the mire with people. One of the things that I have implemented in the last number of assignments that I’ve had is I do a thing called Coffee with Carla. And what I do is I schedule one to one meetings with each of my employees. And I just use it to get to know them as human people. And so what I believe in those meetings, I mean, we talk about what’s your favorite food, and you know, what’s your favorite music and all that kind of what some would consider surfacey things. But then I get into what’s an accomplishment? You’re the most proud of? What is a fun fact about you? What Yeah, tell me about your Enneagram type of your working genius, and I really take the time to hear their story. I think each person is so fascinating. And when I give them that dedicated hour, where I’m face to face with them, locking eyes with them, I really believe and I pray, Lord, help me to see them the way you see them, because you delight in them, and you’re fascinated by them. And so help me to have a facial expression that reflects that. So that if nobody else in their life or nobody else in their day, sees them that they feel seen by me. Yeah. As a representative of you,

    Paige C. Clark 25:04
    that’s beautiful. And I think too, like, there might be a tendency to kind of overcomplicate faith in the workplace. But I will say like I had a co worker who, whenever she would message you on Slack, she would just be like, hey, Paige, how are you? Or how’s it going? And she wouldn’t get to the next work thing until I answered. Usually, when we’re sending message, Hey, how’s it going? Can you help me with this? Right, like and going down the list? And really, she started with the human approach. Yeah, and started and kind of doing that and adjusting the mindset, in meetings or on in one on ones where we’re like, okay, human first, work second, right. I think that has a really strong impact on our relationships with people.

    Carla H. Hayden 25:57
    It really does. And today, in today’s world, you really can’t have enough empathy for people. And you can’t encourage them too much. You know, these are the two things that for me, well, I guess three, excellence, empathy, and encouragement. That’s what I bring to the workplace as an imager of God. And I’m the only female on an all male leadership team in a pretty male dominated industry. And that’s taken some courage and confidence on my part to be fully female. In that space. Yeah. Which looks a lot like nurturing. Yeah. And what I have found is that, even if it’s foreign to them, they want that they want it. And, and so that is just something that I’ve, I’ve had to lean into and rely on God to give me the affirmation for, because in the beginning, I think it feels a little like, Oh, she’s very empathetic, or, wow, she’s really taking the more human approach, you know, and it’s not that the bottom line and the numbers don’t matter. It’s just that data is more than numbers, data is also story. And kind of leaning into that story side of things with people, not just what are you producing? What are you closing? What do you you know, what are you checking off?

    Paige C. Clark 27:16
    Yeah, and I think too, especially in today’s day and age, with like, being a female in the workplace, I feel like there’s been kind of a trend to have to match your male counterparts, instead of stepping into what you into your fullness as a woman?

    Carla H. Hayden 27:38
    Yes, I agree with that.

    Paige C. Clark 27:40
    I feel like that’s like, that’s exactly what you’re saying of like, it doesn’t look the same. And the fact that you are more nurturing and more, I guess, humanizing isn’t a sign of weakness, it’s a sign of fullness in your femininity, or whatever you want to call it. And that’s how you’re called to lead.

    Carla H. Hayden 28:03
    It’s true. It’s true. And we all have the same objectives that we have to meet as a company, right? But the way that we get there could be different. And so again, it goes back to aligning with that company’s values, aligning with how they want to get to the end, that’s really important for me, like in an interview process, those are the things I’m I’m vetting before I take a job, you know, before accepting an assignment is, you know, like, does this is this going to compromise who I am first and foremost, as a Christian? Secondly, is there a place for me here do Are they really going to allow me to be fully me? Yeah, and all that that means?

    Paige C. Clark 28:46
    Yeah, and I think for I mean, I can’t really speak for the male listeners out there. But I from, from what I’ve experienced, good kind of stewardship of your mail. And this in the workplace, looks a lot like strong and thoughtful leadership, in terms of setting the tone for meetings or for conversations on that level, and then also extending, I, I’ve experienced a lot of like, the males extending equal ground in a meeting, if that makes sense. Yeah, of like giving everyone a voice at the table. It might not be weighted equally in their minds, but the good leaders I’ve seen have accounted for all the voices in the room.

    Carla H. Hayden 29:35
    Right? Well, and again, it goes back to walking in excellence in your job, your work is going to speak for itself. So male or female, if you’re not doing a great job. Yes, it you’re going to have a really difficult time gaining the respect of your leadership. But if you’re if you’re doing a good job that’s noticed, especially in this day and age, so

    Paige C. Clark 29:59
    yeah, so So interesting. And I think there’s just like, again, we’re gonna have to have another conversation about male and female energies in the workplace and how to step into that, because that’s a whole

    Carla H. Hayden 30:12
    other thing. That’s a whole nother conversation as

    Paige C. Clark 30:16
    a few conversations.

    Carla H. Hayden 30:19
    Back up could be season three.

    Paige C. Clark 30:20
    Yeah, yeah, exactly. So stepping into your assignment, how would one know what their assignment is?

    Carla H. Hayden 30:29
    That’s a really great question. I, I can’t speak for everyone I know, for me, it has, it has kind of felt and manifested very similarly from from assignment to assignment. And usually it starts with some type of level of discomfort. And I can liken it to, you know, I’ve had three kids, it’s, it’s when you first start feeling those contractions, you’re like, you know, they don’t just come on suddenly, you know, like sharp shooting pain, it’s more of like, a little bit, that doesn’t feel so good. You know, but but you’re still breathing. Okay, you’re walking around, you’re carrying on with life. Yeah. And then it increases over time. And so when I start to experience that, it’s really, it’s, again, it’s an invitation from God into a conversation, like, what’s happening here. And usually, his response to me is like, just start noticing, just start paying attention. You know, and usually, after that, there will be emails that might come from people I haven’t talked to in a while, or, you know, things that might surface random things, podcasts, billboards, like, whatever, where you’re just like, interesting, I’m seeing two or three of the same type of thing, what’s happening. So it’s really just following the breadcrumbs. But for me, it’s, it’s that fanciness, that like level of discomfort, first, it’s having a conversation with God of like, okay, it’s happening. But for anyone who has ever birth to humans, you know, labor could be an hour, it could be a day, like you don’t know, you know, so just because you’re feeling that, I would encourage people, just that initial feeling doesn’t mean turn in your two weeks notice the next day, it’s just an invitation of like, Oh, something is stirring. And so my encouragement in those seasons is like, just stay focused, stay focused, and stay faithful on your job on your assignment, your current assignment, until you actually no. And then things start to open up doors usually start to open up, or I’ll put my feelers out and just say, hey, you know, I might, I might be back on the market soon. If you happen to know of anybody that could use my skills, my experience, let me know, and we’ll just see. Because even when a new assignment is given, like I think about David, like he was anointed king, and then stayed in the, in the, in the shepherd role for many years. Yeah. And so I think, you know, we just there’s, there’s a level of understanding the timing of God and things.

    Paige C. Clark 33:02
    Yeah, yeah, I made a pretty big, I guess, slightly traumatic job change last year. And if anyone wants to go watch my video of like, my current state of mind, it’s on my LinkedIn where I posted a very, like, I probably would not have posted that today. Where I’m like, Is my sweatshirt no makeup on, it was like, 11pm. I was like, highly emotional, but like sitting in my closet talking about, like, how, how I could be really upset about what was happening at work, but also at the same time, God’s peace, and that was so overwhelming. And that was the first time I have ever experienced, like, a peace beyond all understanding.

    Carla H. Hayden 33:53
    I’m so glad that you said that. Because that really is a big part of this for me. You know, I, I follow the piece, not the paper. So for me, sometimes my assignments have seemed like a step back in my career. In some cases, they’ve been a, a cut and pay or a reduction in responsibility. And, you know, I think, from a from a worldly human standpoint, it’s like, You’re going the wrong direction. You need to go up the ladder. And what I’ve said is, I my career has been less climbing a corporate ladder and more scaling a rock wall, like sometimes you’re moving just laterally, sometimes you’re going down and then back up. Sometimes you’re, you know, kind of taking two or three steps at a time just because you happen to get some good footing. And so yeah, I would say like, follow the piece. Don’t follow the paper.

    Paige C. Clark 34:52
    Gosh, that’s good, Carla. And I mean, it’s true and funny enough like I Um, my husband has since I guess, like, repented of his mindset and this in that season, but like, I was like Zen, I was good. I was like, God, you got this? Yeah. And he could not chill with it. He was like, so uneasy in it. And I was like, no, like, it’s fine. Like, but when is it going to be fine? I’m like, I don’t know, God knows, I don’t know. But it was funny to see like a really clear kind of black and white version of like, the two sides of the coin that can happen have like, he was following the paper in that regard of like, Hey, you don’t have another job. You can’t quit it. And I was like, no, like, that’s what God’s telling me to do. So it kind of like makes sense. And yeah. And going down that path.

    Carla H. Hayden 35:52
    Absolutely. And there is a world in which having other mature believers speak into that pray with you through it, you know, and just getting that confirmation. Another thing that for me has God has been so gracious to provide is I get an assignment Scripture before every new assignment. Wow. And I get to hold on to that in the transition phase. Because oftentimes, it’s not as clear cut is like, you’re done here. And now you’re going there there is there’s a phase there’s kind of like a pre during a post. Yeah. And so being reminded in those shakier times of like, I make the right decision, and having the actual word of God, that I can speak over myself, pray over myself put on a post it all the things he has given me one in every job in every assignment I’ve had since 2015. Wow. Yeah, that’s beautiful.

    Paige C. Clark 36:48
    And like something to center yourself on 100%, when like, the times get tough, because like, I feel like there might be the inclination as Christians to be like, Oh, I love my job every single day. And it’s always perfect. And, you know, birds helped me get dressed in the morning, but like, that’s not real. And so difficulty happens. What would you say to someone who’s like, I’m experiencing difficulty in my job? Does that mean I’m in the wrong assignment?

    Carla H. Hayden 37:22
    Not not typically. I would say that the Bible tells us that we don’t battle against flesh and blood, we battle against spiritual forces. And those forces are actively operating in opposition to us inheriting and possessing all that God has prepared beforehand for us to walk in. And so sometimes that difficulty that we’re experiencing, it’s not because we’re doing something wrong. As a matter of fact, it could be because we’re getting closer to stepping into the thing that is right. And I would just remind people that not all stress is bad. There is good stress, like when we think about, you know, people that lift weights, or do you know, weight bearing type workouts, that’s how muscle is built, it’s a breaking down, and then a repairing and rebuilding of those fibers. It’s not always the breaking down. Like we know, like, when it comes to trauma and things it’s like too much too soon, you know, that so we’re not, we’re not talking about chronic stress, we’re just talking about difficulties, inconveniences, pressure, it’s not always bad. It’s, it’s sometimes for our good and for our benefit. And when I think about that I think about well, then what is true in the body is also true for our souls and our spirits that sometimes God does allow us to walk through those hard and heavy times, because he’s using it as a season of training and preparation and strengthening because he knows what’s coming up next for us. And he is actively wanting us to get the reward. He’s actively wanting us to take on greater levels of responsibility. And that’s his way of preparing us for it. And so, you know, again, follow the piece, not the paper, you know, if if it’s hard, but you have that undeniable peace about it, then press in because that’s you’re actually being prepared for something great. upside.

    Paige C. Clark 39:22
    Yeah. And I think once you step into kind of like meditation with God and like with his word, you grow in discernment around God pushing you in a different direction. And then like earthly and spiritual forces pulling you are trying to create a divide. It does feel very different. Yeah. And a lot of it does. Yeah, and a lot of the times I think like where I’m like, Okay, I was a candidate to like, Okay, if I have to ask like, is this God, it’s probably not God. Like, is When I when I got married, I go, how did I know my husband was the right person? Because I didn’t even have to consider is this the right person? I just I just knew it was the right person for me to marry. And so when it comes to God, like, if I have to question like, is this God pulling me in this direction? It’s probably not.

    Carla H. Hayden 40:20
    Yeah, yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 40:21
    So you’ve been mentioning a lot about faithfulness in your assignment? What does that mean, to be faithful in your assignment? And not just to do it?

    Carla H. Hayden 40:34
    Yeah, I think it, I kind of take it back to what I had mentioned a little bit earlier about David, you know, David was a shepherd, first and foremost, and God was using that season of his life seasons of his life to not only strengthen him physically, but to prepare him for how to lead. He was leading actual sheep. And then he was leading the sheep of Israel. And I think about that, because, again, he got anointed, and then it was like, All right, you got to go back to work the next day, you know, and so even if in your heart or in your mind, God’s given you a picture of where you could be or what you could do, whether it’s in your nine to five or your side, hustle, or whatever, you still have today, you still have the work for today that you need to put your hands to. And so faithfulness looks like inviting God in and asking him, how do you want me to partner with you today? What are you doing in your kingdom in the lives of the people that I work with? Or even in my household? And and how do you want me to partner with you in those things? And sometimes that’s send a really well crafted email. And sometimes it’s take a coworker to lunch and listen, and sometimes it’s, you know, yeah, exactly, I could look like a lot of different things, it could look like good craftsmanship. You know, if you’re in the blue collar field, I mean, it’s going to look like that it’s going to look differently for different people. But what it is going to look like is recognizing that we do have a master that is coming back. And that is going to hold us to account for the things that have been entrusted to us, you know, I think about the parable of the talents. And whether you have been given one or five or 10, you have to live in accordance with what you’ve been given. If you’re highly talented and skilled and gifted. You can’t be lazy about that. Because God has gifted you with those things. For other people, the gift isn’t for you, you know, when a tree bears fruit, it’s not for the trees benefit, it’s for others to enjoy. It’s the same thing with the gifts that God’s given us. So whether you’re a writer or a singer, or you’re an executive, or you’re a construction worker, whatever that looks like, the gifts and the skills and the talents and the experience that God has allowed you to have are actually for the benefit of others. He uses it to benefit you in exchange through your paycheck and your benefits and all that kind of good stuff. But faithfulness looks like recognizing that you’re playing a part in God’s plan, and, and recognizing that you going to work every day that there isn’t just the work. There’s the work beneath the work. Yeah, that he’s inviting you into.

    Paige C. Clark 43:38
    Yeah, and I feel like, at least it’s true for me when I was kind of going through like the high school college phase where I was like, What does God want for my life? Kind of what we were talking about the beginning of like, this existential question. And I felt like there was a lot of it might have been self imposed pressure, I don’t even want to say cultural pressure, it was probably just my brain. Like that I kind of realized that got stuck in the mentality that like, if I wasn’t in ministry, then I’m not building the kingdom. And I feel like that’s the furthest thing for for like, from the truth because what what you’re saying is like, it’s not always just about like, what tangible things you’re doing for the kingdom, right? Yeah, because there’s, God works in other like a crazy amount of ways and, and I had a one of the members of my small group she even said, like, God might have had you just for that one. He might have had you there just for the one and if your whole life, you were in that job, and it was just for that one time, and that’s worth it. And that was like whoa, like that took me like, took my breath away. cuz I’m like, man like that is like one, can he do more than one? Of course he can’t. He’s got he can do whatever he wants. But like, maybe it was like a humbling moment of like, maybe I’m just being called to serve one person in my job. And everything that I’m doing is leading up to that moment, or maybe has like, already that moments already passed. And I’m kind of on the tail end of that. Yeah, it’s humbling.

    Carla H. Hayden 45:32
    It’s very humbling. And I think about the scripture in Matthew six that talks about that. God sees what you do in the secret place. And he rewards you openly. And I hope that that comes to bear upon people not as like, you know, but more of like, even when you feel like what does it matter, like, my boss isn’t even noticing that I’m, you know, spending the extra five minutes proofreading this email or you know, whatever that is. But God sees it. God sees everything. He sees the posture of your heart towards your work. So even if externally, you’re doing a good job, he’s also seeing the posture of your heart that your desire to love other people, your desire to serve Him and image him in that way. It it all counts, it all matters. And it’s all it’s all going to be worth it in the end. Yeah,

    Paige C. Clark 46:31
    yeah. I worked at a summer camp one year and they called it bumped the lamp. And like that was the going above and beyond and doing things with excellence was called bumping the lamp. Because here’s a bit of a throwback. The Who Framed Roger Rabbit up. And there’s a scene where Roger Rabbit and I can’t remember the main character’s name are like wrestling and tussling and getting into it and like this back storage room. And Roger hits the lamp, and the lamp swings, but the lamp was on. And they had to they spent hundreds of hours re animating that scene to get the light to swing over the scene. Right? This was back before like, really advanced animation was happening. And it was all because Roger bumped the lamp. And so every time I hear like go that extra little mile do the things with excellence. It’s just a bump the lamp. But no one would ever see that in this film. Now no one ever thinks of that Glee, and it’s not recognized. Gotcha, yes.

    Carla H. Hayden 47:40
    Why I fun fact about me, I read from cover to cover books, I read the acknowledgments section, I read the dedication section, I watch the credits on a movie. And even if I can’t read all those names, I do sit in awe at like, it took this many people like this isn’t. It’s not just the lead actor or actress, it’s not just the name on the front of the book cover that, you know, the author, it’s many, many, many people contributing to that work coming to fruition. And sometimes the contribution is, you know, thank you so so for watching my kids or for you know, for cooking dinner while I went in my hole to write or whatever. And I just think about that. So, you know, we’re gonna be on, we’re gonna be on credit scenes all over the place, and we don’t even know it. And so

    Paige C. Clark 48:33
    that, gosh, that’s beautiful. I actually I’ve thought very similar things with the credits and movies because I’m like, wow, it might not mean a lot to me. It probably meant the world to this person, and this person and this person and this person, and their parents and their parents and their grandma and grandpa and maybe their kids one day. Funny enough, my husband he had to get he’s a trademark lawyer. And so one of his clients had like a trademark problem with a in a movie. And so at the at the end of the credits in one of the one of these movies, it says like so and so is a trademark of Abba and my husband’s like, I made that happen. I was like, I felt so proud. I was like, Okay, so like, this is just like a little disclaimer at the end of the movie, let alone like people who work on the sound and the the props and the wardrobe and all.

    Carla H. Hayden 49:35
    It all matters. It all matters.

    Paige C. Clark 49:37
    It all matters. Well, gosh, you got into a lot of it. But I have a feeling I know what you’re going to say but I want to give you the opportunity to actually say it and add anything else you want to say. But what is something that our listeners can do to implement a faith building discipline or practice into their life or their work? work life, like this week as they’re listening to this?

    Carla H. Hayden 50:03
    Yeah, I mean, I would say, schedule your time with God, you know, have a daily quiet time, if you’re not a morning person, you’re not a morning person, but have a daily time with the Lord. And I really encourage people who, you know, maybe don’t have one yet to schedule it in your calendar, the way that you would a meeting, or an appointment, because that’s what it is it the living God wants to meet with you. He wants to share his heart with you. He wants to bring healing to you by speaking truth over places where lies, you know, might be residing, he wants to be able to share his heart with you for not only you, but for the people that you’re encountering in your job, and it’s going to be the most transformative meeting of your day. So make the time for it. And so I would just say that, and then, as I kind of mentioned earlier, read scripture out loud, like read it with your out loud voice. And even if it’s just, you know, if you’re in a place where you don’t have a lot of space, and there’s other people there, even just reading it out loud under your breath. There’s power in that. And so yeah, I would just say schedule your time with God. And read the word within your out loud voice and

    Paige C. Clark 51:22
    have it in your coffee with Carla so you can have like coffee with God. It’s your one on one time with God.

    Carla H. Hayden 51:28
    It is I have it. It’s been in like it’s literally in my calendar. And it’s just a recurring appointment every single day. You don’t have to reschedule it. I don’t I it’s every day even when I’m on vacation like that. That’s how I start my day.

    Paige C. Clark 51:41
    Yeah. Oh, that’s beautiful. Carla, thank you so much. And we will talk again. I’m like ready to dig into some of these things that we didn’t have time for today. But where can people find you?

    Carla H. Hayden 51:53
    Well, they can connect with me on Instagram. I’m at Coffee underscore with underscore Carla. And also on LinkedIn. I’m at Carla H. Hayden on LinkedIn.

    Paige C. Clark 52:04
    Lovely, thank you so much, Carla, for joining us and we’ll catch you next time. Sounds great. Thanks. Good. Thanks for joining us. If you liked what you were listening to make sure you subscribe and hit those five stars and we’ll catch you on the next episode.

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  • 9 to 5 Faith Podcast: Episode 5

    This is a transcript from episode 5 of the 9 to 5 Faith Podcast with Paige C. Clark.

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    Start of Podcast

    Paige C. Clark 00:36
    This is Paige C. Clark and you’re listening to the 9 to 5 Faith podcast. Well, welcome Eden. I’m so glad to have you on the podcast. Happy Thursday, almost weekend. All good. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do? And yeah,

    Eden Estabrook 00:57
    absolutely. So I am in digital marketing. So my, I guess my, my education was actually in professional writing. And that kind of tossed me into the communications world. People always find it funny because I work in manufacturing now. But in college, I actually studied medieval studies as my minor. So it’s like I went from, I went from, like, archaic documentation to robotics. But like,

    Paige C. Clark 01:24
    Oh, cool. We’re gonna pause there. What were you gonna do with? Was it medieval history?

    Eden Estabrook 01:32
    Medieval Studies! Yeah, um, I have my original plan was to work for a year after college and then go for a PhD. And then I ended up loving the industry manufacturing, like so much that I just, I never left. So here I am. And I’m just like, That’s

    Paige C. Clark 01:52
    So cool, though. You were the first person I have ever met who study

    Eden Estabrook 01:58
    medieval stuff. Yeah, people find it pretty interesting, especially when they learn what industry and what sort of life you know, advanced technologies I work with. And you started and you studied what I’m like, Yeah, English with medieval studies. Anything that you put your mind to?

    Paige C. Clark 02:13
    Right? So you work in manufacturing in the digital marketing space?

    Eden Estabrook 02:19
    Yeah, yeah. I’m 26. So I’ve been in my career now for we’re coming out in over five years. I graduated a little bit early. So I consider myself in that awkward stage between I’m not quite a nine to five newbie, but I’m also not like a veteran. Yeah. I’m pretty good. I’m pretty established. But I’ve still got a lot of things to learn. So that’s why I always find my age is pretty helpful whenever talking about work, because I’m in that nice little middle ground.

    Paige C. Clark 02:46
    Right, right. Right around the quarter life crisis. So yeah,

    Eden Estabrook 02:50
    I mean, I’m coming up on that midlife crisis soon. So you

    Paige C. Clark 02:54
    know, the quarter life crisis? Have you heard of this? No. It’s like when you turn 25. It’s like you have half of a midlife crisis, where it’s like, oh, you have like an identity question. It’s like fresh out of college, you’re finding your surrounding like all of that. It’s called the quarter life crisis.

    Eden Estabrook 03:16
    Well, if I graduated early, then maybe I’ll just have mine a little bit later. So maybe it’s coming this

    Paige C. Clark 03:21
    year. That’s how it counts. Well, good luck with that. Oh, yeah. Here.

    Eden Estabrook 03:25
    I didn’t study math. Let’s just put that out there. So so.

    Paige C. Clark 03:30
    Well, fair enough. And talk to us a little bit about like, your faith and a little bit about your faith journey, whatever you want to share with that.

    Eden Estabrook 03:42
    Yeah, so the nutshell version, so I was raised in a Christian home, parents are first generation believers. So I grew up in church grew up in, you know, nursery, I did all the things or anyone is familiar with, you know, I just wanna say church culture. I did all the things. Alana is you know, Bible Quizzing. I mean, the whole idea, so I’ve done them all. Yeah, I went to Vacation Bible schools every summer. So it was very ingrained in my everyday life from a very young age. But as all teenagers or young adults, it can happen at different times for everybody. There eventually comes a point where you need to make your faith your own and not the faith that your parents you know, kept you in. During your, you know, your dependency years. You could say, and for me, that happened around 16 So right before I went off to college, I got I just kind of had my I’m gonna say like my moment of like, okay, am I going all in? Or am I going to time to just, you know, walk away because there was not without trials. Absolutely. And don’t get me wrong. I still struggle sometimes when you think through like you know especially when the when tough seasons are there you wonder like, Is God even real? And that that age that age range for me really kind of had to bring that into perspective on Okay, things are really rough right now is my answer to the solution going to be leaning into my faith and making my faith my own or abandoning it and kind of, you know, moving forward without it. And I went in the direction of embracing that I got baptized right before I went back to college, and then kind of, you know, the rest is the rest is history. I’m still here today. So,

    Paige C. Clark 05:34
    that’s awesome. And how long have you been in your current position at work? Or like with this company doing this thing?

    Eden Estabrook 05:44
    Technically a year, okay, I’ve worked with this company longer in other capacities, but I’ve worked in this particular position for almost a year now.

    Paige C. Clark 05:54
    Yeah, that’s awesome. And work from home.

    Eden Estabrook 05:59
    Mostly, our one of our plants is in Charlotte. So I drive down every so often. But, you know, nine times out of 10 You guys are gonna get to see my home office and my favorite cat posts are right behind me to motivate

    Paige C. Clark 06:13
    those sir yeah, this is take me back to those like book fairs in elementary school that like just buy those posters at my little lack that lackluster over here, which is like all white, but it’ll get a makeover soon. So I kind of like to start this by asking, what’s your typical week or day look like because I feel like it looks different, a little different for everyone. And how you integrate faith into that is also a little bit different.

    Eden Estabrook 06:53
    Yeah, um, so I’m type A, so I love things to be the same. And I strive for consistency in my day to day life. So with it being worked from home, you know, it’s wake up, make the treacherous journey from my bedroom, to my office, and start, start the day. I, you know, try to find time to work out as well. And then, within all that, you know, trying to find the time and, you know, to be honest, sometimes motivation for one on one with God, or, you know, because it’s, there’s so much there’s only so much time in the day and it’s like, I find as I move forward in my career, I found I had to wake up early and earlier to fit everything in. So, you know, I’m always the first to admit I’m never I’m not perfect, you know, there are days that I fix it sleep or I picked the gym or I picked something else over God. And that’s a that’s a process. But other than that is that is fairly consistent does work. And then the evenings are where, like, week, week, day trip activities are so like, I’m involved in a in a church, small group, that’s after hours. Anytime they do, like a church serving event, those are usually on the weekends, you know, sometimes after hours as well during the week, like if it’s a children’s event, like a festival or something. So those those randomized throughout the different weeks, but complex schedule to be honest with you. Well,

    Paige C. Clark 08:35
    well you were telling me before we hit record that you also have to wake up at some weird hours to to like talk to some international

    Eden Estabrook 08:44
    Yes, I work across all all time zones. It’s, it’s it’s it can be that can be a fun time. Normally they’ll they’re pretty good at flexing. So I tried to say I think the earliest I’ll be willing to wake up for a meeting is six o’clock, but that has to be like drastic, you know, we can’t find any other time.

    Paige C. Clark 09:05
    Right? Yeah, I actually we work with a team in Poland and one of my co workers who’s in America was like I’m just gonna pull an all nighter just to get a work session in with our Poland team. And I was like, more power to you buddy. Like I need my sleep.

    Eden Estabrook 09:24
    I yeah, I can’t do that often, but I will in a pit.

    Paige C. Clark 09:29
    Right right. So what does your one like? What do you do to make sure that like your one on one time with God happens?

    Eden Estabrook 09:42
    Yeah, and I think so. When it’s, I guess if you’re if you’ve been in the church, your idea of a one on one is probably the first picture that comes to your mind is someone sitting in an arm in arm chair with a Bible and like reading, you know, reading something with a cup of coffee. See. And I think that’s definitely one way of doing it. And that’s what I strive for. I think that’s where if you know, the study of God’s word is crucial. But, you know, as I found that to be hard to do all the time, for my for myself, especially since I do want to start the day, with God versus envy, you know, I’m more of a morning person than I’m a night person. So I know some people get around the whole waking up early by doing their Bible study at night, I tried it. I’m just my brain is too bogged down from everything that I did throughout the day to really do that. Yeah. So what I’ve tried, what I’ve been trying to explore is, you know, what does one on one time with God look like? And you know, I think that can be studied. And, you know, I’m in, you know, several Community Bible studies going through different books of the Bible. And so that aspect is very much there. But from a one on one perspective, that can be as much as you know, talking to God, while you’re frustrated with a co worker, or you know, like, you know, prayer is not, it’s cluesive, to stillness. I think that that should that prayer should have some still quiet moments. But there’s nothing in the rulebook that says I can, you know, chat with God about my day, while I’m getting dressed, or while I’m, you know, brushing my teeth or brushing my hair, you know, whatever it is. And so, especially as a young adult, there’s so many things that are that’s vying for your time. That’s one way that I’ve tried to incorporate that one on one time with the Lord throughout the day is, you know, just conversation.

    Paige C. Clark 11:53
    Yeah. Yeah. And I think like working from home as like, a different element to it, too, because like, depending on like, how much space you have, like, your bedroom might also be your office might also be you know, your workout gym might also, you know, yeah, do you wear different hats at your workspace, but like, your space also might wear different hats. And I think like, I don’t know, for me, I am type A, but like, I need like, a space to really commune with God in. And so like having my office at home? Yeah, it’s one of my spaces. So definitely froze it for a loop.

    Eden Estabrook 12:42
    Yes, it’s also and so I live with my sister. So we’re all we’re both adults, as well as my parents. So I have a very full house. And so sometimes, I think, the quietness, if I want something like that, then I’d have to ask you to go somewhere else to kind of I’ve gone to I’ve gone to coffee shops, or you know, just sometimes just to sit on one of their couches and walk right. And, you know, I’m also I can be sort of easily distracted. So as I’m reading something, I’ll think there’s something like that before, you know what I’ve somehow transition from, you know, the book of John two. Oh, what I’m doing in four weeks?

    Paige C. Clark 13:23
    Yes, yeah. Yes. To all of that. Just as a reminder, for those listening, we are all imperfect. Just we are alert. we all we all fail and fall short of the glory of um, yeah. So thinking about like, your work day? How? How does God kind of intersect or show up in like your regular work, whether it’s like with coworkers or with just how you treat people or, or what have you?

    Eden Estabrook 13:58
    Yeah, that’s interesting, I would say that the feedback that I’ve received on myself is that I’m an abnormally nice person. Which, and this has been throughout I think, I’ve been in four jobs since I graduated college. And a lot of them have always mentioned, I have a noticeable genuine love for people. Which is an interesting comment because I’m very introverted. So like, you know, I wouldn’t consider myself like, you know, I’m not a huge people person, you know, a long time like it’s but you know, from a, from the non religious standpoint that my coworkers come from, what I interpret that as what they’re seeing is, you know, God’s biggest commandment is to love others. And you know, and I fall short, like, you know, gossip is a real big problem in every company that I’ve worked at, and I’ve fallen into it just like everyone else. But even within the flaws overall, you know, when I talk to someone I try to remember, you know, that they’re still made in the image of God that, you know, they are loved by Him. And I should try my absolute hardest to see them the same way that God does. If I failed at it, you know, I know I have, but that is probably, I think the most noticeable thing that you can do when standing trying to stand out as a Christian is how you treat other people. Yeah, in the workplace.

    Paige C. Clark 15:48
    Yeah. And I mean, you hit the nail on the head, when it’s like, like, what they see in you as positivity or easy to get along with, or really kind person. Like, we know, we know as God, we know, Jesus. Like, we have this light. And I think that’s like, I think we as like a culture have, have more of a way of thinking, like, we have to say something or do something to, you know, show up for God. It’s like, no, like, that’s gonna show up whether he wants to or not like it is our job to be like the vessels and to be like, the easiest thing we can do is to like, be a nice person and treat people with kindness.

    Eden Estabrook 16:44
    Or you’d be amazed, like, what? People catch up on that, you know, you’re not even trying, right? And it’s just like, God’s God’s love can come through even if you’re not telling somebody or I’m not, I’m not walking through my office, Hey, God loves you, and He loves you. Like, I don’t, I don’t do that. Like, I don’t think I’ve even you know, I don’t even think I’ve mentioned my face. But what tends to happen, and what has happened in a lot of my different jobs is that they, my co workers will pick up on something, and then that usually spurs a conversation. Like, I think when I worked, like before my nine to five, when I work in fast, casual food to pay for right pay for my college, I had one coworker asked like, why don’t you swear, because I worked in the kitchen. So I, you know, there’s a, unfortunately, a lot of cursing in the restaurant business. And that and that, just that comment alone provided me an opportunity to talk about why, what, you know why I believe what, what comes out of my mouth matters. And, you know, that wasn’t even something that says I wasn’t I wasn’t trying to do anything. It was just how I acted because of what I believe about God carried over into, you know, was noticed, and then it eventually drove them crazy as to why it wasn’t changing. And then they just asked me so

    Paige C. Clark 18:14
    yeah, yeah. And I think too, like, there’s the, you know, we’re supposed to show Jesus and Jesus is kind of countercultural. And I think that makes people curious, when when we’re acting in a way that is probably different from the norm or from what the rest of the herd is doing. Right? Like, we kind of stand out in that way. And I think that I saw your really good example of like, standing out that way.

    Eden Estabrook 18:44
    Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, once again, I know you mentioned earlier, like, we all fall short, we’re all imperfect, like, right, you know, if my family was into this, they’d be like, Well, I happen to know that Eden was you know, made a mistake in this area, conversation on the phone and like, and it does happen like we’re not like I I got mad at I got mad at a at a situation, you know, last week and I, you know, probably didn’t deal with it as

    Paige C. Clark 19:12
    the yelling fight with Miko work. Yes. Like it happens. But also there’s forgiveness. Yeah, there’s forgiveness and also just like humaneness and all of that, I think like, I think it’s also a chance for, like Christians to show like, their humility in the situation of like, once they acknowledge that they are wrong and that like, there is forgiveness and like, we should seek forgiveness from others like that. There’s humility in that because it’s hard to go up to like a co worker and like, apologize, right? Like, it’s weird. Yeah, I always felt weird to like, I don’t know. Like guilt inducing, but it’s also like, it’s like here, here’s my here’s my weakness. Here’s my shame. I’m acknowledging it in front of you. Right?

    Eden Estabrook 20:04
    I know that’s a, that’s a very big deal. I feel like at least within my work culture very, you know, you show your best, your best self like I don’t, I don’t like to tell people when I’m having a bad week, or if I’m, you know, I’m struggling with, you know, something personally that might be spilling into, you know, my work day. And it’s not fun. But mean, as you mentioned, that sort of vulnerability is countercultural, and a good way of especially admitting wrong, which is something I’m horrible if I like to think I’m right all the time. But it’s really necessary, sometimes in a really good way of building trust with your co workers to

    Paige C. Clark 20:46
    Yeah, and I remember, oh, gosh, I remember I was in a meeting. And I was in a meeting with other non Christians, for as far as I know. And there was a situation where I had forgotten someone’s name, like someone I’d worked with, like, really frequently. I just like blanked out on their name. I was like, Oh, I’m sorry. Like, I totally, totally could not place his name. And this person kind of snapped back at me. It was like, like, you apologize too much. Don’t Don’t apologize. You know, this whole idea of like, women shouldn’t apologize. And I’m like, no, like, I am genuinely sorry that this person name, this person’s name has escaped me because like, I want this person to feel known and cared about and valued. And I want the other people even they weren’t even in the meeting. And I want the other people in the meeting to know that I know and care about this person. And part of that is remembering a name. And yeah, that’s like, Absolutely. That was one situation I like had forgotten about that. But like, you bringing that up, I was like, yeah, like, you know, just apologizing sometimes. And it doesn’t have to be a bad thing. And it’s okay to apologize. Even though some people say like, you don’t need to apologize, be unapologetic. Sometimes it’s okay to Yeah, it’s,

    Eden Estabrook 22:15
    well, I think what’s important there, I think you might have, like, you brought up a really good point of is, you know, I believe that that person has the best of intentions. Like he really, or he or she I don’t know. Yeah, I think you specified Yeah, I think she brought up a, you know, she was she has the best of intentions. And so like, Stop apologizing, like, it’s okay. But she’s looking at potentially through a different lens. And yeah, and we are I believers, and we need to also as we’re interacting, you know, looking at things through that, you know, biblical lens, you know, my dad had always told me that like scripture is kind of our, our benchmark for you know, whether a thing is something is, you know, is good or bad, like, what does the Bible say about it? You know, and so when you look at things through that lens, something as simple as like, you know, God loves the sparrows, why wouldn’t you want me to try and remember somebody’s net? Like, you look at things differently, yeah, things differently when you have that. That perspective?

    Paige C. Clark 23:12
    Yeah. Yeah. And, and you hit on something earlier that like, I want to come back to because it’s been something that’s been like, really heavy hitting for me, because like, I guess in like high school, I didn’t think that gossip would be a problem outside of like, teenage years. Like, I didn’t think that the worst gossip I would ever encounter would be in the workplace. So can you say like, something more about that? And like, I don’t know, how you combat it, or like how you kind of check yourself with that.

    Eden Estabrook 23:49
    So my rule is, do my absolute hardest to not say anything, that I wouldn’t tell that person I tend to be a little bit more bold in that area. So maybe I push the lines on that. But I am willing to tell ya, if the if the opportunity is provided, but it’s a really hard one, because it’s so ingrained in our culture, and this is not even this is not even at work. This is churches and everything. Yeah. Like gossip is a real problem. And I don’t think, you know, my generation at least gives it the, the I would say the respect it deserves as like, in a way like it

    Paige C. Clark 24:41
    is yeah, yeah.

    Eden Estabrook 24:43
    It is. It’s a you know, it’s it’s not stealing, you know, it’s not, you know, more drastic, that more drastic sounding of the of the sins, but I do believe that it’s wrong and It’s so it’s a really hard one how I said how I combat it is trying to, you know, check myself when I’m talking to people, and you know what I say to that person. But I fall short in this area quite a bit, because, you know, due to just within just within work politics getting information is very helpful. And

    Paige C. Clark 25:22
    yeah, and I think I think one of the lines, that that, that why gossip is so hard to not only define, but also to kind of constrain and put within boundaries is like, when you’re stealing something from the supermarket, you’re taking the piece of gum, and you’re leaving with it, right. Like, it’s very clear, like what’s happening where you hit on a good point of like office politics and like business and like staying in the loop and like, knowing what’s going on, where does that line blur? That’s a hard to exact question to answer.

    Eden Estabrook 25:56
    Exactly, exactly. It’s a and I don’t have the answer. I mean, if you do great, please. Anyone that’s listening and has the answer, right? Yeah, because it’s still one that I struggle with. Because if I’m not in the loop, then I’m going to fall major, like, out of scope with a lot of my projects. So it’s part of part of it is, you know, trying to handle productivity. But, you know, there, I do think that there are lines, and I don’t, and I think sometimes those lines move based on what that particular, you know, conversation or a piece of gossip is in reference to if it’s about a person versus like, you know, a project team or like, I don’t, I don’t know, like,

    Paige C. Clark 26:45
    I don’t know. Yeah, hopefully, hopefully, as like, we get more episodes under our belt will like be able to, like expand this topic a little bit more. Because, like, for me to where I’ve ran into gossip, and like you say, like, I’ve fallen, fallen into it, and have really struggled with it, in the past is, I guess, like, guarding myself against hurt. And against, like, manipulation. And a lot of that is like, done through gossip of like, knowing which people act certain ways or will take advantage of people certain ways. And, and just being on guard on that. And so like, that’s where I’ve been put in situations where I’m like, Yes, like, I need to know what’s going on. Because also, I want to protect myself, and I want to make sure I’m acting appropriately for the situation. And and not kind of have, have one have that attack on me in whatever way? Yeah,

    Eden Estabrook 27:56
    I mean, for me, it’s partially a control issue I have, you know, I think that control issues almost come side by side with Type A personalities. But I, like, for me, knowing the information allows me to work around it. Like if I’m trying to get something done. And you know, I’ve worked at a big company, I’ve worked at a little company, and I’ve learned each one, you have to, you know, navigate things differently to, to get your to get your job done. And so, I that information is in my head critical. But then there’s also like, at what point am I talking myself into something that I know is wrong? Like, am I trying to justify my behavior? In order to, you know, keep going with it? If it’s, you know, surely not, you know, not biblical. I don’t have an answer.

    Paige C. Clark 28:43
    I might need to know answers. Right? Yes, I agree. And also, I’m like thinking to myself, like Paige, you should probably do some more research on this. And I probably will. And I hope to have many people on like yourself who can speak to it because I, I just, I was really naive, entering the workforce, of how prevalent it was, like, Sure, don’t steal from your company. Right, like, treat people nicely. that’s those are all really good things. But also, like, where’s the line of gossip and like, and how we can show the love of God through our actions in avoiding gossip.

    Eden Estabrook 29:31
    Yeah, one thing that I’ve always been really fired up about is I’ve always felt the gap in almost like Christian education, is that transition from college to the workforce? Like there’s so different and then you’re you’re almost you’re not even prepared for once you enter it like, oh, my gosh, like, what? Just what happened to my look? Yeah, like, you know, being surprised about gossip like, Oh, you think that’s like the teenagers? You know, I feel like it almost gets worse with adults. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 30:00
    So oh, it absolutely, it absolutely does. I don’t think I dealt with this issue as much as I did in adulthood. By any factor.

    Eden Estabrook 30:13
    There are whole life Instagram channels at this point dedicated to like, how people talk about things professionally. And basically, you know, the whole life professional ways to say things. Right? There’s a whole there’s almost a language to be in business. And it’s like, it’s so if nobody told you what it was gonna be like, Well, they didn’t tell me at least say I was all over. But yeah, I mean, I graduated. And you know, all of a sudden, I went from like, Yeah, time during the workday to, oh, I have to be at the same place Monday through Friday, nine to five, and then even then nine to five was sort of a lie. Because then you had I was commuting at the time. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 30:56
    For clarity sake, I say nine to five, because that’s how most people recognize it. But like, no one works nine to five, it’s eight to five. Where

    Eden Estabrook 31:06
    was that? Notice? Yeah, it just saw totally happen. And I mean, I was always doing that to begin with, because I liked to be productive before people got in. But so I would always start just a little bit early, but then you just noticed all of a sudden, you know, coming in early, or they’re, you know, they’re doing their nine to five is not true. It’s more like, seven sets if you’re dry. That’s true to the city. Like I mean, it can take up a large chunk of your time. You know, yeah, it’s like, it’s crazy, like, oh, nine to five, just eight hours. No. And then it’s somehow in between all the driving and the work. And you have to somehow feed yourself like, I mean, how does that work? That one?

    Paige C. Clark 31:55
    Yeah, so very true. And like, yeah, no one, no one gives you a heads up that the happiness is coming down, down your way. No, so but if you’re listening to this podcast, take this as your official warning, if you haven’t entered the workforce yet. This is your official warning that this stuff does happen.

    Eden Estabrook 32:17
    Yeah, absolutely. And

    Paige C. Clark 32:19
    I was thinking about it to have like, we probably spend more time at work or with our co workers, then we do our actual family. Oh, yeah, I haven’t done the actual math on it. I’m a comms major like you, or I’m in comms like you. But yeah, I haven’t done the math on it. And I don’t know if I will. But like the amount, the sheer amount of time that we spend with our co workers, and it is kind of like a second family.

    Eden Estabrook 32:52
    Yeah, you spend a lot of time with them. And like, you’re where you work that does influence you, you know, those people have an influence on you. And I think that’s to me, as I kind of progressed in my career, and my faith is why the importance of being in a church community outside of work, like I know, it’s an as you know, I’m 26, like, I’ve talked to a lot of young professionals who are like, you know, after work, I want to lay on the couch, and I want to watch TV, and I said, I hear you, but it’s so important, it is so important, counterbalance all the people that you’re hearing and talking to on a day to day basis, with time with other believers who are struggling through the same things that you are, so you can encourage each other. And, you know, it is it is worth dragging yourself off the couch. And yes, sometimes you are going to drag yourself off the couch and complain the entire drive. Yeah, but it’s so important to prioritize that time with church community, or Christian community. You know, you’re not in a church, but I mean, I highly recommend being in a church. I think that’s not only biblical, but helpful for your

    Paige C. Clark 34:01
    soul. Right.

    Eden Estabrook 34:06
    Because, yeah, it’s, it’s hard, why working is hard, like, and you need those people in your life to, you know, encourage you and, you know, bounce things off of like, I had this happen at work, was this wrong? Like and then if you don’t know, then, you know, work through the problem together.

    Paige C. Clark 34:25
    Yeah, and I think too, like, it provides like a level of accountability. I feel like the more and more I am involved in and ingrained in my church and church community, like the more accountability I have, because even even when he returned to the volume, I’m like, okay, so I meet like, once on Sundays, and then like, if I have a small group, it’s like halfway in the week. Well, there’s there’s like, not a whole lot of time to get up to mischief and between there like it’s easier to Uh, it’s easier to, you know, kind of follow those straight and narrow when you’re constantly being surrounded by this community that can keep you accountable.

    Eden Estabrook 35:11
    Okay, yeah, I mean, God has blessed us with technology, ology, and that is a great way to keep in touch with your brothers and sisters in Christ throughout the week. I know everybody hates group chats, I hate them as well.

    Paige C. Clark 35:22
    I love them. Oh my gosh, I love group chats.

    Eden Estabrook 35:27
    I know a lot of people who used to add them to a group chat, and they immediately you know,

    Paige C. Clark 35:32
    I love group chats, there’s so much fun,

    Eden Estabrook 35:35
    they’re fantastic for like, you know, dropping a prayer requests throughout the week. Like, you know, telling, you’re telling your church family, like, Hey, I’m having a really tough time this week with work and y’all, you know, take a moment to stop and pray for me, and vice versa, seeing what other people are struggling with throughout the week. And, you know, sometimes you may be able to support them within that, you know, but you’re never going to know, I always tell people, I can’t help you, or offer help or anything if I don’t know what the problem is. Right? That’s So always, always, always good to try and stay not just in a church community but invades in a church community, throughout. I think that’s especially challenging for my generation where I’ve seen it, I’ve seen it with, you know, the graduating classes that have come after me, where they’re the biggest, the biggest enemy against the church right now, for my age range is the couch, honestly. There is there is time, I know there is there’s just they’re battling exhaustion or, you know, lack of motivation. And, I mean, that’s why I’m very passionate about emphasizing church community, because I think it has made a very big difference in sweeping me, so you know, still to still a Christian, still a Christian through, you know, four or five different different jobs where with questionable influences throughout the way, I would say my church community has a good reason for that, you know?

    Paige C. Clark 37:17
    Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think to like, your church community, is a way of getting filled back up, when you’re pouring yourself out to your co workers and to, you know, your, your company and everything, like you’re, you’re not only like, from an energy and like an intention, but also like, spiritually, like, there, you might feel like work is a spiritual battle, and that, like, you have to actively fight against things, or you might feel like that your co workers are really, you know, I don’t wanna say troublesome, but like, are offering up situations that you don’t want to find yourself in and you’re having to actively fight against those or you’re just pouring yourself into some people who, you know, you think that can, you know, that God wants you to be in their life with and you’re constantly pouring yourself out in church community is your way of kind of getting filled back up to?

    Eden Estabrook 38:23
    Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely.

    Paige C. Clark 38:26
    So, Eden, I always like to finish with this question. What is one thing that our listeners could take away from this conversation and like implement in their life today? Of like, what we’re talking about? What is one thing that they can walk away with? They don’t have to I do this on every episode. So if you’re listening to every episode, choose one, but give them one to choose?

    Eden Estabrook 38:54
    Yeah, absolutely. I would give the same advice that my college pastor gave to me right before I went away to college, which was prioritize church on Sunday, and prioritize multigenerational interaction with other believers. He said, and I said, I can’t quite take credit for this. But honestly, it was one of the best things that I ever did in college and beyond. I still still practice it today. He said, You’re not going to really learn anything if you surround yourself by people who are, you know, basically struggling alongside you. You know, I’m with a bunch of people who are 26 We’re all going through the same things and nobody has the experience to help us get out of it. So prioritizing church on Sunday. It’s a good way to you know, obviously start start your work week off with some Jesus and hopefully refresh your soul for the potentially treacherous week ahead, but also, not isolating yourself. within, like, you know, you know, beyond professionals or I think that sort of interaction is great, but you know, find somebody younger and you know, mentor them, find somebody older and have them disciple you like, ya know, it’s church is a community, it should be a community. And if it’s not, then then I would question some things about that church, but the church should be something where you are walking alongside other people and doing why. together and helping each other helping bury each other’s burdens throughout the week. And I think that that would be my two part advice.

    Paige C. Clark 40:41
    I love it. I love eat. And thank you so much for joining us. This conversation was so good. And you have motivated me to go into my Bible and into the commentaries and do a lot more research.

    Eden Estabrook 40:56
    So where can people LinkedIn is probably the best point fine. Yeah, you Mr. Brooks. My picture I think looks like me. So there’s not a lot of Enos to what’s out there. But I’m located in Charlotte, North Carolina, if you need to verify the address the city, but that’s probably the best way. And feel free to message me on LinkedIn or, you know, connect and then message. I don’t know what regulations are around this between people anymore. But happy to happy to talk. I love meeting new people. So

    Paige C. Clark 41:33
    awesome. Even thank you so much for joining us, and we’ll catch you next time. Awesome. Thanks for joining us. If you liked what you were listening to make sure you subscribe and hit those five stars and we’ll catch you on the next episode.

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  • 9 to 5 Faith Podcast: Episode 4

    This is a transcript from episode 4 of the 9 to 5 Faith Podcast with Paige C. Clark

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    Start of podcast episode

    Paige C. Clark 00:36
    This is Paige C. Clark and you’re listening to the 9 to 5 Faith podcast. So welcome everyone. So glad you’re here and joining us. I have my friend Ivonne on with me. How are you doing today?

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 00:50
    I am doing fabulous Paige. Thank you for having me.

    Paige C. Clark 00:54
    Yes, it is a beautiful day. I don’t know what the weather’s like. there for you. But is the perfect spring day here.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 01:01
    It’s freezing here. Oh no. It’s freezing. It’s in the 20s who are getting some flurries but it’s okay.

    Paige C. Clark 01:09
    Oh my goodness. I’m actually going up to the snow this weekend. So I am going on vacation to experience what you have every single day.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 01:19
    Oh, hope you enjoy will be

    Paige C. Clark 01:22
    a blast. So Yvonne, tell me a little bit about yourself about your background what you do? Yeah, let’s let’s jump in there.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 01:33
    Yeah, um, well, I’m Ivonne Rivera Newberry. I am married, I met my husband 20 years ago, while in the army. His name was Jason. We have two beautiful kids. Our son is a freshman in college in Oklahoma studying mechanical engineering. And he’s 18. And our daughter is a senior in high school. And she wants to be a large and small animal vet. And I am a nurse by trade. I’ve worked for the state health department. So I helped to oversee over 50 clinics across the state of Kansas. It’s a grant program. And so I just helped to make sure that all of the practices are in line and with nationally recognized standards of practice. And so that’s a little bit about

    Paige C. Clark 02:31
    how long have you been doing that?

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 02:35
    I’ve been with the state health department for five years I’ve been in, I’m gonna say in public health. Since 2012, okay, Nurse awesome. 2007. So yeah,

    Paige C. Clark 02:48
    so sometimes, and when you were mentioning your kids, I was like, I was thinking if they were older or younger, and I’m like, I’m gonna have to talk to you like, next year when your daughter isn’t at home anymore, because I feel like that this conversation is going to be radically different at that point.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 03:06
    Oh, yes, we’re definitely in the season of kind of preparing to be empty nesters, which is big. It’s a big thing. And so different stage of life. Different opens up new opportunities, though, right? And so, but yeah, it’s a different stage of life.

    Paige C. Clark 03:26
    So maybe we’ll have you back on and then we’ll talk about it. Yes, I’m curious, because I don’t have any kids at home. We just have two dogs. What are we what are they called is like dual income without kids is that

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 03:48
    there’s like some kind of dogs can be like kids.

    Paige C. Clark 03:51
    There’s some acronym of like, when you are like still to working people and you have no kids at the house. And anyways, that’s me and my husband right now. So I feel like I like that I’m able to talk to people who are almost empty nesters and who still have kids at home and because it looks so different for every one that says yes.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 04:14
    Yeah, so really does.

    Paige C. Clark 04:16
    So tell me a little bit about like, as of like today with like one kid at home and you and your husband and your husband? I’m assuming like works full time or is sometimes deployed maybe or traveling?

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 04:32
    Sorry. We’re both out of the army. We’re both Okay.

    Paige C. Clark 04:35
    Okay. Yeah, yeah,

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 04:36
    yeah. He’s a detective. Very cool. So

    Paige C. Clark 04:39
    he’s working very long hours.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 04:42
    Yes. Yes, yes. So he’s he we both work full time. So our schedules you know, sometimes it’s 40 Plus, especially if you add in travel. His job does require for him to travel across the state as well. You And in mind is to actually next week, I’ll be gone for the entire week. And so preparing to visit to clinics specifically and so. So yeah, so it can be a lot of hustle and bustle. And, you know, as it relates to our so let me just also say, so we’re almost empty nesters. But also we just changed churches and

    Paige C. Clark 05:28
    okay. Yeah, a big thing.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 05:31
    And we’ve been with the church that we left since 2017. Big deal, because yeah, are my faith as a believer in Jesus started, really, they’re like, Oh, my God, but I really didn’t accept them until 2017. And, and so it was, it really helps to bring our family just walking in a certain way, and had wonderful when we still do wonderful church family, which we really saw the fruits of that, especially when our son graduated, we had a graduation party and having everybody over our home. It was just beautiful to see that. And it was important, because my parents, they don’t live here. They live in South Florida. And they got to see that so. Yeah. So let me just say, when we were in the height of really being very active in our church, we were in a ministry, that was an eight week course and allowed people to come and explore their faith. Okay. I myself went through it with my husband and with Jason. And it really helped me. And we were recommended by other leaders to help facilitate that. So we started there. We soon thereafter joined a couple’s small group, couples Bible study, and not too long after that the facilitators, the leaders stepped down. And so Jason and I said, we’ll step up and we’ll take the reins. And so we did that. I then also started a women’s Bible study. That was weekly. That was every Thursday evening. The couples Bible study was twice, twice a month. And then we had the eight week, you know, talk about your faith ministry, which was every Sunday, I ended, it would finish eight weeks. And then you’d have another

    Paige C. Clark 07:45
    rush cohort.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 07:47
    Yeah, yeah. And so that, and on top of that, we were mentoring a young couple. And that happened organically. And that was also weekly. That was like, every Sunday evening. Yeah, we would have dinner together and have Bible study together. And just, it was beautiful. That lasted for years. That’s awesome, instead. And so all of those ministries really kind of came to, like an organic, like, and yeah, literally this past year, like in 2022. So yeah, I really, when I say we’re in a new season, we’re in a new season. Yeah, for

    Paige C. Clark 08:29
    sure. And like, when you’re saying, like, oh, we have the ministry on Sundays, and then we met with a couple Sunday evenings, I’m like, when you say it’s the Lord’s day, it is the Lord’s day, you are going to church in the morning ministry in the afternoon. You know, couples mentorship in the evening, like, committed to the Lord.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 08:50
    Yes, I mean, and this was all in because, you know, we would rotate back and forth is to house and it was a younger couple. So they had a younger child, and it was just easier to go over to their home and they don’t mind. And then our children would come and help help baby. So while we were doing the actual Bible study, and so that was, yeah, I mean, that’s a really

    Paige C. Clark 09:13
    beautiful thing, though, to have, like your kids involved in that regard of like, they don’t have to be the ones participating, but they get to see you and your husband as a model for that.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 09:27
    You know, and that I think people don’t realize your children and doesn’t matter how small or how old they they are watching. And I think it’s a great reminder of when you say that modeling, actually, that was one of the things that my husband and I, we would kind of sometimes hold each other accountable. It’s like, what are we modeling? When we say this or do this what are we modeling? But you’re absolutely right. There have been other couples who have been we’ve encountered in, in the church and we’re friends with and They were in a crisis or they were struggling with something and they would invite us over to talk. And in our children were also invited. And so they got to see us minister to other couples as well. So it wasn’t just this one. But that happened in different scenarios with different couples. But this one couple in particular, it was it was for years, I would say at least three years that we went every Sunday. And so

    Paige C. Clark 10:27
    that’s, that’s awesome. So how did? How did that kind of like, stack up as you were taking on kind of like these different responsibilities within your church community? And just kind of organically happening? How did that kind of stack up against kind of your career and your husband’s career and looking at it of like, did you ever get to a point and be like, Okay, we like seriously need to, like, evaluate and like, pray if we’re going to step into these things because of these other responsibilities and commitments we have.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 11:05
    Yes, there’s definitely. There were definitely, I would say, months or some weeks that were just haywire. And it was very difficult because, and I guess maybe it does sound like a lot. I think to some people, it didn’t sound like a lot. And I was like, well, if when you’re doing a couple’s group, you’re it’s not just the group setting, but you’re also meeting with those couples individually. If you’re, if you’re doing it, like really, you know, what I mean, like Riley, you know, trying to, you know, have an engaged group engagement history. And the same thing with a women’s Bible study. You know, I was meeting with those ladies, weekly, a lot of them were from the couple’s ministry. I think I’m gonna say so. And I don’t want to get too much into our background. But when I say we started in, I came to the Lord in 2017, it was a one ad. Okay, it really truly was one ad. And what I mean by that is, we went from our, I’ll speak for myself, I went from Yvonne first career first. You know, I was amidst. In 2017, I wasn’t in this role, I was in another role. And in that role, I was very busy. Like, I had five departments, five direct reports, 33 FTE, underneath me, and meetings, constantly, staff issues, you name it. And on top of that, I had graduate school, and had a fellowship that had its own projects, I was president of the National Nursing Association. Now. I mean, when I say I was chasing in my priority, was definitely climbing the ladder. At one point I wanted to, I thought, I’m going to do law school when I got accepted to law school, and I was going to do law school. I was I was very, very ambitious. And there’s I don’t want to give that a bad connotation. Because there’s nothing wrong with being driven, you can be trained, but what’s the why behind it? What, what’s your real purpose behind that? And so when I came to Christ, all of that kind of, I’m gonna say, there’s just avalanche changes. And so getting my personal relationship with the Lord in line, then putting Jesus in the middle of our marriage, and getting our marriage in line, married for 20 years is not without its valleys, we had started in valleys. Okay. Several, I can think of three times particularly that we, we could have been divorced. And, and then getting our household in line. And finally, coming to a point where we were parenting from a place of putting God first. And so, so, so I guess when when we were doing the ministries, it was very, like, that’s what we were supposed to do. That’s why we’re in the perfect place to do and I will say, as those you know, you know, the other activities, I graduated, I got my master’s degree. The fellowship finished I did my, you know, project and presentation on that and be being president of the nursing that also came to an end and then I left that role. And I actually it was a long commute, and I left that room All because I needed to be closer to home. My husband had some health issues and had two serious surgeries, revealed a heart condition. And so I was like, I just need to be closer to home. And so finally it was putting God first. Right? Then my husband, then my kids, and then everything else. Yeah. And so when I interviewed for this role, I actually, I think, very bluntly said that, yes, it I need a job that is flexible. You know, I can travel, I, my little ones are not little, you know, I don’t have any qualms, you know, jumping on a plane, and not just around the state, but they would have me go into conferences across the nation. And I was like, I don’t have a problem with that. But I don’t want to be made to feel guilty if I need to go to a doctor’s appointment for my husband, to see a volleyball match, watch my son play football. I, I’m gonna take the time off. Yeah. And they said, as long as you give us notice, and just let it like, just let us know, just communicate, we don’t have a problem with that. So

    Paige C. Clark 16:02
    yeah, I was at a place that called it when for time, and it was like, as long as it’s a win for you and a win for the company and a win for the customer, then you’re good. So boom, like that. Yeah, kind of, well. One thing that I wanted to kind of talk about, which like I wasn’t necessarily expecting it, and tell me if this feels accurate for kind of your industry, because I know the healthcare industry is a little bit different. But I work in a very, like corporate kind of setting. And, and what I’ve come across is kind of that ladder climbing that you were talking about earlier of like, what’s the next step that you’re gonna get? What’s the next step instead of just allowing your purpose to flow through your job? Have you encountered that at all? And, and kind of how did that mind shift kind of switch for you? And like, did you find any pushback from like, or like awkwardness? I felt I feel awkward when I do like performance reviews and stuff, because I’m like, there’s like, what do you want to do? And I’m, like, pay my bills, like?

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 17:11
    Yeah, I’m gonna say in, in academia, and when I was within the cohort, with the fellowship, because that was, I was one of 25, in that fellowship that were selected to be a part of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, public health nurse leaders that was, you know, this this thing for two years. And it was phenomenal. It was a great opportunity, lots of growth there. And that’s where I felt, I felt like I need to be publishing, you know, I published two academic articles, but I’m like, I need to be publishing more, I need to get my PhD. I need to, you know, I need I need to do all these things. I need to become a professor, I need to Yeah. And I felt that that pressure, I don’t, since I’ve come here at the State Health Department, and I came from the local health department. I feel like I have the bird’s eye view. I don’t feel that pressure. I feel like I have a great relationship with the people that I consult for and assist and, you know, doing their clinics, and I helped new directors, you know, as they get acquainted with the role and what the program is, and I don’t I don’t feel that pressure. Yeah, we? Yeah, it’s just it’s different. I would say when I was more in the nursing circles, right, specifically, nursing circles. In graduate school. I got I got a little bit of that, too. Yeah, I definitely had that. That push and it’s a little bit like, you know, look inside deciding where they’re doing and what am I doing? Right, you know, but But honestly, the, when I finally accepted Jesus when I took on that new identity, when I took on that new identity, and I can remember when I said the prayer in church, and I said, you know, I don’t understand this all. I don’t have it all figured out. I was 41 years old. But I know this is all pointing to you, Lord. And I know that I have to trust you. And if I do this, there are no half measures, but I’m all in. Okay, and so if I’m gonna call myself a Christian, like I’m, that’s not a small thing to me. Right? It’s not an empty thing to me. And it’s not salad bar time. I’m going to take a little this and a little that right out. Not that because I don’t prefix menu.

    Paige C. Clark 19:56
    You get with

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 19:59
    us Get what you get, and it’s all of it and some of it you’re gonna wrestle with. And that’s okay. That’s okay. And when I went all in, I was all in, because I came to a point of, you know, is what I’m doing? Does it even matter? Right? I mean that that’s kind of where I got to I’m feeling what I learned about myself is I’m very purpose driven. I’m incredibly purpose driven. And so now, my purpose is not, you know, getting Not that there’s anything wrong with getting published or getting a PhD, or whatever, you are becoming an attorney, or what you know, and nothing wrong with these things. But I think my reasons for seeking those things were, were really not in line. And so when I finally came to Christ, it was like, okay, Vaughn, you know, he put me in this role. And I’m, I’m good in this role. I’m, you know, I’m good at my job. But now, I’m doing it for different reason. I’m doing it for this. And I’m able to in and I’ve learned, and I struggle with this a little bit, because I’m not the why here. And what I learned over the years is the Lord needs his saints everywhere. You can’t We can’t live in a bubble. We’re called to live in the world not be of it. Right. Right. We have to live in it. Yeah, we are set apart. And, and then we have the Great Commission, me now, before Jesus ascended, he says, you know, go and make disciples, right, you know, baptize them and, you know, the teach, you have to go go out, spread, spread the gospel, spread the good news, and disciple. And that’s, that’s where I found my new purpose, my new purpose, not as much advance realizing, although, sometimes that comes out. Right. But discipling and that’s, and that’s actually, so right now, my husband and I are leading, we just put together a discipleship group and talk about that, you know, I am mentoring young woman who I met in church, the church we just left and, and just discipling her, you know, so people who have already accepted the Lord, and are hungry, to learn more and to grow in their walk with the Lord. In challenging, that’s the other thing challenging those who are a little complacent. Right, right. Look uncomfortable. So guys, yeah, yeah. You know, so

    Paige C. Clark 22:45
    you said some things that I’ve actually been noodling on this week, a lot. So it’s quite fitting that you mentioned it, but it’s, it’s the whole thing of like, why the reason why we want to achieve certain accolades, and either our education or career and I, you hit, you hit the nail on the head is our identity of like, where is your identity coming from? Do you have that ambition? Because that is how you attain your identity? Or do you already define your identity by Christ? And then the rest kind of follows?

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 23:25
    Yeah, that’s, I think, I think that what would I have found in I don’t know, if we’re, you go to church, if you find this, sometimes I have found and sometimes I’m to have a surprise, I’m not as surprised now. But people who’ve been Christians for a long time, a long time. And I don’t know if it’s getting into a rut, or just kind of they go to church, because that’s what you do. But they kind of keep the Church activity, prayer, whatever, they kind of keep it there, like that. That’s the place where they, they do those things. And there’s, they may enjoy the sermon, you know, worship and whatever. But outside of that, there’s not there’s not much else. Maybe they’ve been, you know, the tithe and really be a part of, you know, you know, something, some community, you know, volunteer or something. And that’s all well and good, but I found a lot of folks just kind of comfortable. Yeah. And if I found some that even when you start really talking to them, I found a theology. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay, you know, so and so that yeah, so So Why where’s your identity were trying to. And that’s something that I, I’m a big proponent of, it’s actually what inspired I’m writing a book for discipling new believers? And what are those first steps that you have to take? You know, one of those habits, so that your new identity in Jesus can be deeply rooted, so that you’re not, the thorns don’t just grow around you, and the worries of the world and life. Just happen, you know, and then it overtakes that excitement that you had, because I’ve seen a lot of that I’ve seen people get really excited at first. And there’s no one to walk alongside them. There’s no one to say, Hey, you got to, you got to disciplines are you getting into the word? Are you praying? Are are you trying to find community within other believers? Because that’s all of those things are needed? Yeah, to really there. They become your guardrails as you go along in this walk with them.

    Paige C. Clark 26:11
    Right, right. It’s not a it’s not a checklist. It’s a set of guardrails.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 26:16
    And, you know, and I’ll say this, because at first, you’re right, it’s not a checklist like, check. I went to church, right? You know, but if, if in the beginning, it has to start as a choice. I’m okay with that. Yeah, I can remember a time in my prayer. Like I was very good at waking up, having my quiet time reading the Bible praying at nighttime, right before I go to bed, I don’t want to think about news. I don’t want to think about my to do list. I don’t want to think about anything else. I want scripture to be the last things that I think about before I close my eyes. And I was really good at bookending. And it was a great start. But in the middle of the day, I would get like on the hamster wheel and just go Go, go go go. Yeah. And I felt like I wouldn’t I would remember. And so I had to put even like alarms on my end. No, it sounds silly.

    Paige C. Clark 27:13
    No, not at all. You’re not the first person that mentioned that. On this podcast. Actually, we talked, I’ve talked at length about checklists and alarms.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 27:24
    I mean, it’s a thing like to hit pause to get your attention and be like, Hey, have you said thanks to the Lord? Have you you know commune W? You know, like, God’s God’s there in your checking in? Are you? Are you asking him what his thoughts are on this project or whatever? Yeah, you know, are you giving him thanks. So, I had to do that. And you do that just until then it becomes natural, right? And then it’s no longer a checklist. It’s just what you do?

    Paige C. Clark 27:55
    Yeah. Yeah, I always like to say, my love language is checklists. So I love to see I love, I love lists, I have them everywhere. And it’s just because it frees up space in my brain to kind of focus on what I’m looking at. But also reminds me to step away from that and go spend my time with God or, or whatever else is on my list. So no shame to those who have lists. It is a valuable tool.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 28:25
    Now Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, it’s, it’s necessary that you have to start someplace. Yeah. And if you weren’t raised, and if you weren’t raised going to church, you aren’t raised, you know, in a home that put God first. Yeah, you know, that, that, that makes a world of difference like it, you know, it’s not natural, it’s not so. So it takes a lot of intentionality to incorporate that. And so it’s not just gonna come you have to intentionally put the effort to make that happen.

    Paige C. Clark 28:59
    For sure. And I want to talk about that middle you were telling you about your book ends let’s talk about the middle How does your faith show up during your work day?

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 29:14
    Sometimes Sometimes it’s interruptions. That sounds whatever but it’s not I’m thinking of Jenna. You know, divine interruptions. Sometimes it’s interruptions whether it’s a text, whether it’s a song that pops in your head, whether it’s I have posted some things all over my, my work computer, and with scriptures and different things on there. If sometimes it’ll it’ll just, somebody will come up or somebody will text me and That’s sometimes how he shows up. He shows up and either people or a song. Lunchtime. I hate me. I’m just being straight giving thanks for my food. Yeah. And, and provisions. Being able to, I can’t remember her name. I think it’s Margaret. Feinberg. Okay. I can’t remember her name. But I listened to her on Discover the word one time. And she’s like, how wonderful. We have a God who made us so that we can enjoy delicious food. We don’t have to go around looking rocks. I thought that’s true. Right? I enjoy eating.

    Paige C. Clark 30:44
    I had a ministry leader who said, you always have to eat, like you need, you know, two to three meals a day, you always have to eat might as well do it with someone else. So if you’re in the office, like people were saying, like, oh, I don’t have the time to, you know, kind of commune with anyone or reach out to anyone who’s like you gotta eat. I always really liked

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 31:08
    that. That that’s true. Like not to. So he was saying that like as a as a way of fellowship, like, yeah, to eat with somebody else. Yeah,

    Paige C. Clark 31:18
    yeah, felt fellowship, or like outreach or like, if you if there’s someone you want to talk with, or minister to, you know, have a have lunch with them, because everyone has to eat.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 31:33
    You Britain, actually, that that is another way. That is another way I will have I thoroughly love and enjoy to have coffee or lunch or breakfast with women and men, one that I’ve maybe just met, you know, I met a woman at a navigators conference and found out that we lived in the same city. And I’m like, oh, you know, this is awesome. And so I went and had breakfast with her and, yeah, and just talking about all things faith, and you know, and what a wonderful way to, you know, really nourish that sense of community. That’s, you know, even outside the walls of your church, you know, so to speak. Right. So. So, yeah,

    Paige C. Clark 32:21
    I love that. And I mean, feel free to not answer this if you don’t want to No, no, you said you work for the state. So have you ran into any issues or any hesitancies even with talking about your faith, seeing that you work for a government agency?

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 32:43
    Ah, I if asked directly, I will answer, I will answer honestly and equally directly. Other than that, I don’t bring it up overtly. And I when I use words, like I learned this actually from another, I went to a conference in San Francisco. And when I started listening to this one speaker, he started using words like, fellowship, and things. Those are not, or, you know, things that are honoring, or just the terms that he disciple or yeah, yes, yes. I was like, I was like, Wait a minute. He’s a believer. Yeah. And it’s, and it was, so I was so new in my own faith. But I felt like a child, like realizing something and I walked up to him after he spoke. And, and I said, I can’t remember how I even phrase it, but I kind of like asked him, I was like, Are you a believer? Are you Christian? And, and he said, and he just, he smiled and nodded. And I said, I said, but you don’t you don’t outright say it. Because there’s ways because there’s ways to fold in the message without directly saying it. Yeah. I I model, yeah. I model Christ who lives in me. And I allow people to ask, yeah, and, and they do, you know, I had one time an error was made in an order. And I was in this this is not directly in work. This is actually I’m gonna say, buying flowers, right? The the buy flowers. And the flowers weren’t delivered on time. It was, you know, for my mother or whatever. And I just said, Hey, you know, this is not right. And at the end, she said, You’re so nice. She goes, You’re the nicest person to talk to you got wronged and As flowers weren’t delivered, and I, and I said, That’s not me, that’s Christ who lives in me. It’s him who allows me to, you know, show that grace, because he’s shown me that. And here, I’m gonna say at work, I’ve had people who, you know, just in chit chat will mention something that their daughter’s going through a surgery or something. Right. And I’ll say, I’ll pray for them. What’s her name? Pray for her? I’ll say that. Yeah. And, and I noticed others may be, you know, ears will perk. What I do the site visits. I don’t make a big show of it. But I do pray over my food. Right. I pause. Everyone’s digging in. And I want to dig into but I pause. Yeah, and I pray. There are some nurses and in staff that I visited, they have mentioned, they mentioned it, and so I will meet them there. Right. So I, I will tell you that on my door and my office door, I put across that says, harvest blessings are something on it like during the fall, you know, for Thanksgiving. I’m going to say that’s a big thing for me. Just because in my previous role, I did feel muzzled. I think I felt muzzled. Because I was the assistant director, like, Yeah, I had 33 people underneath me, right. And I never wanted to be accused of trying to impose my fate and anybody. My one regret, and it was because I felt muzzled. There was a moment where I was traveling with a friend, she was she she wasn’t directly underneath me, but still, my position would was over hers. You know, I’m saying. And so she asked, she asked about, she’s like, I don’t I don’t get how people can be so excited about God. Like, I’ve tried to go to different churches. And I don’t even remember how I answered it. But I remember I was so walking on eggshells, and I did not answer it. I did I, I was not obedient. In what the Word says about, always be ready to share the hope that you have in Christ. Always be ready. Right. And, and I, I missed that. And I so regret that. And I talked that over with Jason. And he says, If they ask you, because they asked you, right, that’s different. You’re not imposing anything on them. And so that’s something I’ll definitely remind people. If so, if someone were to ask me, I’ll definitely share. Yeah, and I’m okay, sharing, I have my Bible open on my bookcase. When I come early in the morning, I have my quiet time with my Bible open, right. I’m reading it stays open. It’s there. I’ve got scripture, I’ve got things that definitely you know, I think represent, you know, where I’m at, in my faith. Yeah, you know? Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 38:21
    And I think it’s, I think it’s not so much because cuz I can hear the cynics listening to this and be like, Oh, that’s very performative. But it’s not, it’s allowing the space to how you would regularly live your life. And then it actually, I, in my opinion, gives permission for either community, with other believers to happen, or for people who may not be believers to feel safe with you in saying, hey, you know, my daughter is having surgery, would you mind praying for her or something like that?

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 39:02
    And, you know, I do notice that he would then tell me, Oh, my daughter’s doing better have your eye updates. You know, I can remember there was another gentleman who, I can’t remember what we were talking about. And he mentioned, he goes, I know, I know, God’s at work here. I forgot what he said. And I said, why I believe in God, too. And he goes, Oh, I know, you do. He knows I know, you do your and I thought, I’m thinking how do you know that? I do. You know, but, but he knew, you know, and so, so it’s very, there was a woman I actually went through a period where I had a scare. I thought I might have breast cancer. I mammogram came back abnormal and I was beside myself. I was just so big. beside myself and another nurse who worked on the hall. She actually her program is all about breast cancer. You know, and so I just went and I just like, I just needed just to share, you know, and prayed with me, and, you know, cried with me and prayed with me. And so she’s just been moments. Moments like that. I also think about my physician during one of these, one of the three major valleys that my husband and I had, I had an appointment with my family physician, which I love her to pieces. Been with her since we moved here. And she asked What’s wrong, and I just, gosh, you know, all the problems that we’re having. And she just, she said, Oh, Yvonne, she goes down, she, you know, she goes, You will never be enough for your husband and your husband will never be enough for you unless you have God. In the middle of your marriage. She goes, God is what makes you enough for him and him enough for you. Yeah. And, and she said, can I pray for you? She spent in a busy practice, she spent over 30 minutes with me, cried with me, prayed with me. And I think about that. I’m thinking, how would How would other physicians have responded? So there’s yet another example of in a professional setting, right? That a need like that comes and someone is bold enough, comfortable enough to share, to share the truth. You know, and I wasn’t a believer then. Right. I appreciated. I appreciated her tears. I appreciated her prayers. Right? After I became a believer, I wrote her long, long cord, thanking her and saying, now I get it. Yeah, no, I understand what you mean, you know, so. So I think, I think it’s, it’s hard your state health department, it, you know, there’s a culture, there’s a certain culture, within government, I think that’s kind of, you know, but, but there’s still, you know, and I’m not gonna lie, when I put up my cross, I’m waiting for the day that someone says, that offends me or, and I’m right, I’ll cross that bridge, when I get to it. Yeah, I’ll cross that bridge. When I get to it, I will sing his praises. And I will talk about the goodness of God and to my last breath. And, but that’s, that’s me further along, in my walk to

    Paige C. Clark 42:52
    write right now. Not at the beginning. And I was I was thinking when, when we were talking about, you know, just having people kind of identify a light inside of you, as, as a believer, I was thinking of, you know, when you ever have like, something that’s monogrammed, or has your name on it, like a name tag, or like, it’s on your sweatshirt or backpack? And then someone calls you by a name near like, like, how do you know, you? Know, you? It’s kind of funny, but I think that’s like a little bit of an example of like, how we can walk around with Jesus on ourselves and on our behaviors. And then, when people need it, they come up and like, you’re like, wait, like, how, like, how did you know but but also it’s because of how, how you carry Jesus’s light through your day and through your work.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 43:51
    Yes, yes. And not not shy away and look for the opportunities. Like I said, I regret the one time where I felt like it was a missed opportunity. And I even tried to set up a lunch to kind of make up for it and talk to her and it just felt like it fell flat. Like it was truly a missed opportunity. Like when she asked the question was when she was like, really curious, you know, right. And my trying to in my very human logical way, you know, trying to correct that was with all of its good intentions. It just fell flat and it was just not the same. But that’s okay. I learned from that.

    Paige C. Clark 44:40
    Also the Holy Spirit still moves, despite us.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 44:46
    Oh, yes, I’ve had I’ve had the Holy Spirit muzzled me. Yeah. Yeah. Don’t say that. Don’t ask this. Don’t Don’t. Don’t say that. How does she feel? about this. Yeah. And I’m like, and I ask, and then tears come and I’m like, okay, there it is. That’s, that’s what that’s that this is what this is about. You know, and but but as it’s happening, I’m like, What is going on? I wanted to give her that what for you? Right. And Holy Spirit’s like, No, not today. Not today. You’re gonna Hirsch and you’re gonna ask her this question?

    Paige C. Clark 45:30
    Yes, yeah. Um, so to kind of round out this conversation, I always like to leave our listeners with a takeaway of something that they can implement in their faith walk in their day to day walk, whether it’s on their commute, or how they act in meetings, something that they can take away, to help move them closer to God. And what would be that takeaway, Yvonne?

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 45:59
    Hmm. I. So spending time with him, intentionally, making God an absolute priority. And that means, I think starting your day, bookending your days with the Lord starting in the morning, and ending at night. And it’s a great way to frame your day, great way to start your day. And also a great way to end. And so does it have to look in this very prescriptive way? No. You know, I’m at a point where I’m spending an hour in the morning. Did it start that way? No, Heavens, no. Right. Opening up, the Bible was super intimidating to me at first. And so maybe it’s five minutes. Maybe you’re saying a prayer and just saying good morning to the Lord while you’re brushing your teeth. Maybe you open up our daily bread app, you know, or another, another little small 200 300 word app that shows that shares a scripture, you know what I mean? Right, right. It’s just that those few minutes. What I have found is that, that the Lord honors that. And it yields such fruits, when you give him that time that you learned to delight in that, that communing with our Lord, because He loves you know, he wants us to turn to him. Yeah. And we grow as we do that. And so starting our day to kind of set that tone. And then I would say, before you go to bed, I don’t know what people’s routines are. But some people watch news or set up their clothes for the next day or whatever. I like to end it with scripture. I don’t want to know about what horrific thing has happened in the world. I don’t want to know about my to do list or the thing I have to present on the next day. Give me scripture, give me his word. Yeah, let me go to sleep. And I I you know, pray sometimes God talk to me in my dreams. Yeah, visit me and my dreams and talk to me in my dreams, you know. So I would say bookend your days with the Lord, start with him and end with him.

    Paige C. Clark 48:23
    I love it. Vaughn. Thank you so much for joining us and and we will talk again in a year when you’re an empty nester and talk about your routine then, because I’m very curious how that’s gonna look.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 48:36
    Yes. Well, thank you so much, Paige, this was absolute joy. And I absolutely love talking about all things faith, all things, discipleship, and also professional development. So

    Paige C. Clark 48:48
    where can people find you and your new book that will hopefully be coming out in a very soon timeframe?

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 48:57
    Yes. So Yvonne Rivera. newberry.com is where you can find me I blog. And book I am working. I started out with it. I thought it was just going to be a 20 page thing. God said no book. Sound like. So I am amidst. I’m trying to expand that right now. But I’ll definitely be making announcements. So but yeah, your website? Yeah. via my website. I’m on Instagram, and I’m also on Facebook salsa.

    Paige C. Clark 49:29
    And we’ll link all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much, Yvonne.

    Ivonne Rivera-Newberry 49:33
    Thank you so much. Thanks for joining us.

    Paige C. Clark 49:36
    If you liked what you were listening to make sure you subscribe and hit those five stars and we’ll catch you on the next episode.

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  • 9 to 5 Faith Podcast: Episode 3

    This is a transcript from episode 3 of the 9 to 5 Faith Podcast with Paige C. Clark

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    Start of podcast episode

    Paige C. Clark 0:36
    Paige C. Clark and you’re listening to the nine to five faith podcast. All right, welcome, everyone. I am Paige C. Clark, and I’m here with my friend Rose. Rose, how are you doing today?

    Rose Jordan 0:49
    I’m good. How are you?

    Paige C. Clark 0:50
    Good. Now, tell us a little bit about you what you do what your nine to five is.

    Rose Jordan 0:58
    Alright, so a little about me, I, I live in Texas, I have a husband been married almost 29 years, and we have a 28 year old. What I do? Well, I show people around my amazing town. And I help them to see why they would want to visit Mineral Wells, Texas. So technically, my job title is Director of Tourism.

    But my pattern of that job is to help people fall in love with Mineral Wells.

    Paige C. Clark 1:26
    What’s your sales pitch? They’re like, why should I visit Mineral Wells after this? Well,

    Rose Jordan 1:32
    I’ll tell you, we are. We’re straight up in outdoor destination. So if you love the outdoors, we have three state parks in our county, which is rare? Well, no, I think it’s much less than rare. I don’t think it’s ever happened before. We’ve got 30 plus miles of hiking and biking trails, and we’ve got the brass at big brass has river running through the state of Texas. So we just have all the outdoor things that you could want to do. And we are shifting back to our roots as a wellness destination. So we were known in the 20s as the place to go for all the famous people. If you wanted to come feel better because of our water interested.

    Paige C. Clark 2:06
    Okay, I was gonna say like, are there like hot springs

    Rose Jordan 2:09
    or something? We do. So you can do baths here back in those days. They were bath houses everywhere,

    Paige C. Clark 2:14
    right? Yeah. Yeah, fine. And how long have you been working in that job?

    Rose Jordan 2:20
    But four and a half years. And then before that I was on the Tourism Council for like three years and then got hired on to staff.

    Paige C. Clark 2:25
    So you’ve been doing it for a while? Absolutely loving it? I do. Yeah. Yeah. So um, I always like to start off like with what your week looks like. Because I realize like, everyone’s week looks a little bit different in like, how they practice their faith and then like fit work into it, or the other way around? How do you fit your faith into your work.

    Rose Jordan 2:52
    So on a normal week, on Sunday, the week will start out as on a normal week, my job time is 830 to five, Monday through Friday. That’s in theory, when you’re the Director of Tourism, a lot of it is after hours building relationship with tourism partners and go into an events. And on top of that I’m also the film liaison. So if you come to our community to film a project, I’m your point of contact. So that might mean I end up spending eight hours with you driving you around my county to help you find locations. So if if it stays true till 830 to five, typically, it’s I’m getting up early, most days, you know, at around 630. And so I spent a little time just kind of doing a brain dump to make room for hearing God. And then I’ll just spend time you reading scripture journaling, you know, kind of whatever that looks like in the morning. I typically so you’re seeing me here in my studio, which is a couple of blocks from my office. And so this is generally where I come on my lunch break, to paint to write to just spend time with God. Right now I’m researching Christian meditation. And so I have notes. And so for me, that’s part of, you know, my spending time with God. For the last few weeks, I have actually been fasting and Kevin communion in the mornings. A lot of times if I feel like Holy Spirit’s trying to teach me something specific or transform something in me specifically, I’ll use that as the focus. So like in the morning, I’ll start out with communion. I’m reading through some scripture, and then I’ll fast until usually around one o’clock and the reason I do that is because I can use those hunger pangs. As a reminder, almost like an alarm clock. I’m hungry. Oh, this is my reminder to pray for whatever it is holy spirit is trying to shift in me. So sometimes I have to use hunger to remind me to think about God and what Holy Spirit is doing in my life. So Right. So yeah, that’s kind of a general. You know, in addition to that, so my husband and I, we sold our house So we bought an RV just so we can be part coasts that are one of our state parks. So we have duties there. And you know, that’s a lot of fun and we love that. But yeah, there’s, it’s it’s a lot I technically my job is 830 to five but right, it’s very rarely so.

    Paige C. Clark 5:14
    Yeah, yeah. And I mean, you you said something there that was like, Oh, that’s a good idea of like, just brain dumping everything to make room for the Holy Spirit. Yeah, that’s really powerful i think i opinion of like, a really easy way because like I always like to say like my love languages is lists. Yeah, me too. Like, I love lists. If you if you want to make me happy, give me a beautiful list. And so like as as a way to kind of start off the day of just like dumping everything out to make room for the Holy Spirit. So you work in office is out, like in an office with others? Yeah, in general,

    Rose Jordan 5:55
    like a lot of my job requires me to be out meeting with mentors and partners, whether it’s restaurants or hotels or whatever, so I’m out doing things with them or building relationship with them or, you know, stalking my information racks around the county. But But generally, you know, a lot of minus sitting at a desk. So yeah, yeah. Working with my visitor center.

    Paige C. Clark 6:14
    Yeah, with other people. Because it is a little bit different. I asked, because like working from home is like way different than like working in person with other people even like meeting like doing meetings. Yeah. Because like, you don’t get to you don’t get that interface a whole lot.

    Rose Jordan 6:31
    Yeah. And I prior to come into this job. I had been work at home entrepreneur. So yeah, like, I know that life too. And it is a totally, it’s harder, I think in that life to shut down work and shift over to home because work is at home. So yeah,

    Paige C. Clark 6:47
    yeah, for sure. And I found like one thing that before COVID, my husband, he was always he always worked from home because he works for himself. And then like after COVID Now I’m just like, full time at home too. But one thing that like he and I have had to kind of get in the habit of is like letting our office space be our office space. Yeah. And then everything else, like when we leave our offices for the day, we’re leaving our offices, and we’re leaving our work behind. Yeah. And kind of transitioning to a family like this

    Rose Jordan 7:24
    makes that really hard because you’re going to carry it from the office over to your life. And it’s Yeah,

    Paige C. Clark 7:29
    yeah, yeah. And especially for you too, with with working outside of regular hours to my first job was a little bit above and beyond your regular clock in clock out hours. So how do you navigate that and like, you know, kind of, kind of go with the flow and trying to like, stay in some kind of rhythm with God.

    Rose Jordan 7:55
    Yeah, you know, I’ll tell you, I am a type A. So like, I’m a planner, and I’m very task oriented. So I’m like thinking things through and like you, I want my list. In fact, I can show you on Sundays, I sit down with God and I just kind of ask Holy Spirit, you know, what am I focusing on for the week? And then then I kind of plan out the areas of my life. So I’m gonna I was it helpful for those on a podcast, but like, this is my, this is my week. So I’ve got Monday. And then on Monday, what are my goals for my health and wellness? What are my goals for creativity and spirituality? What are my goals for my ministry that I have? So I that’s a big piece of it. But I also include on this list, the thing that I’m supposed to be whatever it is that the Holy Spirit wants to be focusing on, it’s on there. So every time I’m looking at my to do list, I take a glance down at the thing that that I feel like Holy Spirit has, is wanting me to focus on for the week. So that’s a part of it. But in general, honestly, it’s just the key is being an intentional, you’re intentional with the parts of your life that you can plan and that are predictable. But you’re also intentional in preparing for if you know you’re gonna have random crack times or random, you know, waiting times or just random bits of time that you never know what they’re gonna happen, then you’re preparing ahead of time. How can I fill that time with God? If I plan for it now so that when it comes how can I you know, that’s a big piece. So for me, it’s all about it’s just being intentional.

    Paige C. Clark 9:25
    Yeah. Yeah, that’s awesome. And like planning, planning for the unplanned bubble, I guess. That’s exactly expecting the unexpected but like also like planning for that implantable or like, I think it can be something as simple as like, having podcasts queued up in case your commute gets longer having you know, nine to five faith queued up or other podcasts that you listen to, that are life giving or my husband every morning when he’s on a he walks our dogs every morning. He just listens to sermons every morning or just kind of how I mean those things in your back pocket. So like, when Yeah, plans do change. Yeah,

    Rose Jordan 10:05
    I actually teach something called the Virtual Bible caddy. So to have Okay, here, here’s my, well, again, we’re on a podcast, but that’s okay. The video is getting posted too. Okay, good. So this is my actual Bible caddy. It has a couple of different versions of a Bible. It has journals, it has, you know, my colored highlighters. It has, you know, notepads, it has all the different things so that when I’m sitting down for some time with God, like all my stuff, and if we’re going to travel, I just grab the whole thing and go, Yeah, but I, one of the things I teach is creating, and this is a really great way to prepare for those unexpected gaps of time is that you create, you can create folders on your cell phone, right, so I have a folder, I don’t know how easy it will be to show. But I have a folder on my cell phone. That’s called Bible caddy. And so I have a couple of Bible apps, I have some of my favorite podcasts. I have some devotional apps in here. And then I have like some Bible study app. So anything that I might could use to just help me point my heart toward God for a few minutes, is in this little folder called Bible caddy. And so then if I’m suddenly in a long wait line at the grocery store, I can either get frustrated with the line or I can decide that that’s a really great time to pull up my Bible caddy. So that’s, that’s that for me that’s preparing for the stuff I can’t prepare for.

    Paige C. Clark 11:24
    Right? Oh, yeah, it’s such a fun idea. I might start that. I love that idea. It’s really, it’s really cute, especially like the physical caddy like yeah, I’m gonna, I’m probably gonna do that after this podcast, or is, um, so in talking through, like, how do you let me say this? How do you like interact with like, your faith community? Whether it be like your church or like a Bible study group? Or what? How do you interact with them? Or like, how do you sustain that with such like, an unpredictable schedule?

    Rose Jordan 12:02
    Yeah. Well, very seldom do I have to miss church, you know, Sunday or Wednesday. On the rare occasion, it’s because if I do, it’s because I’m working with a film crew. And when they’re here, it’s like, all hands on deck, right. But usually, I’m able, even if they’re filming on a Sunday, usually I can go to church. So I’ll tell you, I absolutely love my church, family, our community, our church, our, our community, at church, we’re really just kind of gonna go into the presence of God, but not just for ourselves, but for our whole community, for all the churches in our community, like, we love all the churches in our community, and they’re a part of us. And so I love that I am, I’m on the worship team, and on one wednesday MONTH actually lead the team. So that keeps me focused, you know, on, especially that week, and really focusing in on hearing, okay, what are we doing, you know, Holy Spirit, what are we gonna do Wednesday. So, so, Sundays and Wednesdays are pretty much non negotiable. Like, it has to be really important for me to miss that, aside that, aside from that, you know, I have, I have kind of a tribe of women, you know, that are my, they’re my kind of my prayer team. Like when things are crazy, right. They’re the ones that I touch base with. Now, none of them live in my town. So we all do it by text, or by Facebook Messenger or whatever. So I do have that group. And then I have a core group of, you know, women here that I’m really close to, most of them are at my church. And then I just kind of tried to, I’ll be honest, if I didn’t have to, if I didn’t have to do like Facebook for my job, I don’t think I would have have Facebook at all, except that I do have my fixed community there. And so that’s kind of my online community of women where we’re just kind of learning this devotional life thing together. So again, it’s really the same thing. It’s deciding, like, what’s most important, and what’s not negotiable, and then figuring out you know, just being intentional with the rest of it, like, if you can’t do the rest of it every day, like, how can you build that into your time, even if it means adding it to your list? Because like, I don’t believe God wants to be an item on our to do list. But He knows our hearts if we’re doing it, just to check it off and say we did it right. That’s not pleasing to Him. But if we’re doing it because we just need the reminder because we’re reading hard and fast doing life right now. And there’s a million things to do and he knows the reason we’re putting on the list is just to remind ourselves to point our heart back to him. I you know, I do believe that pleases Him. So it’s whatever. Yeah, knowing yourself well enough to know and be honest, like, what do I really need? You know how what’s going to remind me to point my heart back towards God. So

    Paige C. Clark 14:57
    yeah, that there’s so much there that I Want to go on but I think like, I think adding it to the list, like, if you I was texting a friend the other day, and I sent her just like a picture of one of my lists, and I was like, please don’t judge me that I have washed my hair on my list. Okay, doesn’t mean I’m gross and I don’t shower. But also sometimes I need just like a little like light bulb to remind me Hey, set aside enough time to go watch your hair.

    Rose Jordan 15:29
    Yeah. Because probably tomorrow you’re not going to be able to so if you don’t do this today, you gotta get good.

    Paige C. Clark 15:34
    Right? And yeah, I think I think that’s also like, how how adding adding God to your list if you’re a type A like us. And I also think like, God created our personalities. Like he created some of the some of us to have the gifting of organization and structure and I can’t there’s there’s a, there’s a spiritual term for that, that I

    Rose Jordan 15:58
    not able to place right in the street of Yes, but yeah, that’s

    Paige C. Clark 16:02
    what it is. Like to be more administrative. And so I don’t think that God has a problem being on our list, because I say like, if I don’t see it, it’s not in my brain. Like if I don’t hold things in my brain for the sole purpose that it’s written down. Yeah, on a piece of paper somewhere.

    Rose Jordan 16:23
    Exactly. Yeah. You know, another thing too, for me is, oh, anchor habits. So let me think of an example. I think it actually had some that I was going to share. Okay, so anchoring habits. So one of those would be like using a hunger pain to remind me to pray, or, I do have, I have two alarm set on my phone one is 1221, that’s my husband’s birthday, every day at 1221, my phone goes off, and it just reminds me take a second to pray for whatever’s on your heart, then I have the other one that set for 148. And that’s for John 148. And that’s where my, the the community like that’s where that comes from. At 140. A, my alarm goes off, it’s just a quick reminder for me to pray for, you know, for my the community, the FIE community and how I’m serving them. And then, you know, like Sunday check ins, you know, I mentioned I’ve got, I’ve got so this is me setting up, I’m gonna get a little bit closer and voted. And so like one color is health and wellness. One color is my spiritual personal life. One color is building relationships, whatever I want to do this week to be intentional about sowing into my relationships. And then yeah, yeah, the colors for fig. Well, part of anchoring is that on Sunday night, when I’m doing this, I’m not just making a to do list person, I’m asking Holy Spirit, like what is what is my focus for the week? And then, you know, what is ahead of me? You know, all the things that I don’t know, that are coming, you know, there’s a film crew coming on such and such day that I’m not ready for, right, so you help me plan my week? Well, just because I’m not actively reading my Bible. When I do. That doesn’t mean I’m not spending time with God, I’m actively spending time with God in the act of planning out my week. And so the more that I can anchor habits, to, you know, anchor those, those sort of practices or movements, like remembering to pray, because I feel a hunger pain, the more that I can anchor those habits, then throughout the day, I’ve got habits I’m doing all day long. So if I’ve got different practices of planning my heart towards God, anchored to a practice, you know, all the times, but with God, it’s just really, with the Bible in my hand. So

    Paige C. Clark 18:34
    right, right, yeah, for sure. And I think too, like finding anchor habits that you wouldn’t regularly dismiss. So like, yes, phone alarms work for you thought alarms wouldn’t work for me, I dismiss those so fast. But also, like I always wear my Apple watch. So like, if I set my watch to go off, that would probably do it more than an alarm because alarms are associated in my brain with waking up and I don’t want to wake up and yeah, I want to turn it off. So some of

    Rose Jordan 19:09
    the other things would be like, if you, you could do you know how we used to do those little note cards and we put a verse on it. We’ll put that with your toothbrush and toothpaste. So while you’re brushing your teeth, you’re reading scripture, right, that’s anchoring a practice of pointing your heart toward God with something that you’re already going to be doing anyway. Yeah. Anywhere that you can do that and anchor to your habits that you’re already doing. Yeah. Use that as something to point you back towards God. Like, that’s how we, Scripture says that we’re in prayer all day, like it’s all that we’re all that. That’s how it’s not that we’re on our knees all day, right? That we’re constantly throughout the day, pointing our heart back towards God in some way. So the more of those kinds of things that you can do. I’m not sure it does. Siri wants to talk, she doesn’t understand. But the more of those different things that you can do to just tie your regular habits into a reminder to turn towards God, eventually it becomes natural. Yeah. But when you’re trying to build that relationship with him and build that consistency and constancy, and always, you know, being aware of him, then that’s when you start finding the habits that you can tie to a practice. So

    Paige C. Clark 20:28
    I love that. The other thing that you said earlier that I wanted to dig deeper on was the non negotiables. And making things non negotiable. Because I do feel like, I mean, you can blame my generation of the millennials, but we have millennials and Gen Z’s have have a kind of some notoriety for being rather flaky, and for backing out, and I think just the era of technology has made that a lot easier to back out on, on tasks, on commitments on whatever it is. So what are some ways that like, you make the things non negotiable? Like is that? Do you have accountability in that? Do you set that up with your husband? You know, did it look different when you’re a kid was at home? Like you dig more into that?

    Rose Jordan 21:19
    So yeah, it really depends on a couple of things like, what is the thing that you’re trying to make non negotiable. So for example, something that I really am trying to be more consistent about, and if not yet, have not yet felt? The urge. Or perhaps I’m resisting the urge to make it non negotiable. But I want to be better about honoring the Sabbath about keeping the Sabbath. Yeah. Because I know as this type a person that is going, going going, and I have a dozen different hats that I’m wearing. And they’re all you know, and I don’t do anything halfway, I do try to do everything with excellence. And I try not to, I’m not about perfection and people pleasing, but I am about completing what I say I’ll do, and there’s a lot. So, you know, try not to over commit would be one. But because of that, I know that if I don’t take if I don’t keep the Sabbath, that it’s a gift to us. Because he knows people like me, need to be told take the day off. And so if if I came to the point where we’re going to call it non negotiable, but we’ll just say just take a step back from non negotiable and say, I really am trying to be more consistent about that. Then if I say it’s non negotiable, I am not going to work on Sundays. Well, first off, what does that mean work? Does it just mean I’m not going to go into office? Or does it mean, I’m not going to do regular household things? I’ve recently heard who? Oh, Emily P. Freeman, interviewed. I can’t remember. Did you hear the one about the Sabbath? And she talks about it’s a really good one I sort of didn’t even think about that. But the the woman that wrote the book about Sabbath, she talks about, actually in Scripture, Sabbath is communal, it’s meant to be together with your people. So it’s not that it’s not the intention that you go into your hidey hole. And you do nothing but read Scripture all day, right? But but if I’m trying to make that my non negotiable, or at least I’m trying to make it more consistent. Like, what does that mean for me first, and write it down so that you can hold yourself to it? Yeah, because at least if you’ve got it written down, even if you’ve not told anybody else, you have something to hold yourself accountable to it’s not as great because you’ve already dealt with it. So I mean, first off, is decide what does that actually mean to you? What are your actual parameters there? And then, you know, we’re calling it non negotiable, obviously, on a Saturday, you know, things happen. But what are my boundaries? What is Holy Spirit saying, this is for your good, this isn’t? Because I’m trying to want you to check it off a list. This isn’t about keeping a wall. It’s none of that it is Holy Spirit. What do you what do my boundaries need to be for my own good?

    Paige C. Clark 24:12
    And what can you control in that? Exactly? If there’s a lot of things that fall outside of our control, like might pop up, there might be emergencies or, or what have you. Like, I work in social media and not so much in this position that I’m in now. But when I was in positions before, I would be getting texts in the middle of the night saying like, hey, you need to go deal with this. And so like, I’m like, Okay, that is outside of my control, but like what is inside of my control? And like part of that for me, is because I work in social media. I volunteer for social media at my church, which includes moderating their live stream. Yeah, has that I don’t care if I’m on a Sunday, or if I’m on a Saturday, but please don’t put me on both because I need aid A day where I am not working in social media. Yeah. And that’s kind of like the boundary that I’ve put up for myself of like, just give me a day. I’m happy to serve otherwise, but I need a day where I’m not working.

    Rose Jordan 25:16
    Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, it really is just I think it’s, obviously you don’t want to try to have a whole bunch of non negotiables. Because it’s not realistic, and you’re just gonna set yourself up for failure. Right. But when you feel the urging of the Holy Spirit like this, is this important? Like it really is this important? This is my non negotiable, like, right? Then you can actually ask him, Okay, but what is this mean? And how do I set that up? And if it needs outside accountability, then he’ll directly and that to like, I don’t have anything right now that I feel like, necessarily needs that for me, but, but I think if it is something that is in that, like, he’ll lead you?

    Paige C. Clark 25:57
    Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So drawing back a little bit to like your job and what you do, what ways does your faith show up or not show up with like, what you do on your day to day? Whether it be like interactions with your co workers? Or like, how how you act? Or how you, you know, how do you, like, minister to the people around you? If you do, yeah, you say more about that.

    Rose Jordan 26:27
    So what when I first hired onto the job, it was very clear to me because no one they should know, hi. I was not even remotely qualified. It was very clear. In fact, when I went to, you know, had given him a resume, and they said, Okay, come in and want to meet with you. There’s that one for Taylor.

    Paige C. Clark 26:49
    Do you want to do you want to go and pray? I will respect that.

    Rose Jordan 26:53
    Oh, good. Oh, good. And your blessing? Actually, yes.

    Paige C. Clark 26:58
    And so anyway, we sign off, I’ll remind you.

    Rose Jordan 27:04
    That’s funny. So when I first heard on it, so I gave the resume. And then he said, Okay, I want to meet with you. And I printed off the job description. And when I went in and sat at his desk, and I knew them because I was on the Tourism Council, so I worked with the chamber, in that capacity, and I knew the person that was interviewing me, and I said, Okay, now before we start talking, you have these qualifications. And I don’t have that one. That one, that one or that one. It was just like, so when he told me that, you know, after, after I was hired, and that newspaper came to do a feature that he was like, he tried to talk me out of it. I did, because I wasn’t qualified. But be warned. Yeah. I tried to tell you. So honestly, they hired me for my passion. So because I just I love our community, we’ve always been one of those. We’re a small town. And so we’re kind of a stepping stone for most usually, it’s a kid Kevin out of college gets their feet wet here, and it goes on somewhere else. I’m here. This is my, this is the first time I’ve ever looked. So God’s got me here. But I knew it was very clear that this was an assignment from God, this wasn’t about a job. And so a lot of times, that will mean, especially in the early days, it still happened some but especially in the early days, I had a 30 minute commute now it’s it’s only 15 minutes, but that commute was me praying about whatever it was in the city that he you know, whatever I felt was on God’s heart. I was praying Yes, and or whatever I thought he was, you know, it was on his heart for mineral oils. And so there’s that I’ve actually had some really cool opportunities, like with the film crews that have come through and, you know, just kind of some of the different people that I work with and events, I’ve developed some amazing relationships with some of the people that serve in our community, which it helps it’s a small town but it really is a great community of people and so in the people in the tourism industry here are absolutely amazing. And so I’m able to connect and work with them and pray for them. And you know, if somebody comes to mind, whether it’s somebody that community or not, you know, as somebody pops into my head, if at all possible, I take a moment and just text them, hey, I’m thinking about you. How can I pray for you? Or hey, you know, you popped in my head, is there something going on? Or, or I felt like God said this about you. So like, that’s one is just, if you hear it, you know, try to do if you can, if somebody comes into mind, try to do something with that right then same thing on Facebook, like if you’re scrolling Facebook, and somebody says, hey, I need prayer. And most people are doing prayer or sending prayers up or I’ll be praying. I actually if at all possible, if I have the time will stop and just pray right there in the comments. Like yeah, whatever’s on my heart for that, because I don’t, I don’t want to have said that I prayed and get busy and forget. I want to actually just go ahead and do that. I did. But I’ve also, you know, built some great relationships with people Outside our committee like the production crews are, one time we had an actor come through that. I have no idea how it happened. But we just kind of started communicating. And he has spent, he doesn’t live here, he spent many hours on the phone, my husband and I, we’ve just been able to minister to him and pray for him. And when he’s transitioning, and he’s moved to another state are doing things, like he’ll call and check in with us and just ask for prayer. And, you know, I have a location scout that that I’ve been working with for the last year and a half on like the Yellowstone Bass Reeves 1883 those films. And I’ve gotten to know her. And so we just check in every now and then hey, just checking in, how’s it going? And so, I got has just given me lots of opportunities to minister to people, even if it’s not speaking God, to them, it’s just speaking life into them. You know, because like, like, my new some of them, it’s clear, they’re not Christian. And that doesn’t, that’s not my problem. My, my, my job is just to speak life into them and to speak love into them. So God is He just gives me lots of opportunities to do that, you know, with people that are passing through, it seems especially with the the film, you know, the production companies, which is, which is a lot of fun. But yeah, you know, and at work, I’ll be honest, there are many days at work that I’m so I’m a one person tourism department, in a town that is busting loose with tourism right now. And it’s amazing, and it’s exhausting, right. And so I have to get real intentional about not letting myself get bogged down in the heaviness of it because it gets overwhelming. I mean, just real honest, it gets overwhelming, but a lot of times, so people will send either a text or they’ll Facebook message or they’ll send an email, and they’ll just kind of be cheering me on or praying for me or whatever. I’ve learned to actually print those out. And my best friend who now lives in Missouri, she does paper crafting, okay, something of hers around. But she one time she paper crafted a really pretty envelope. And it lays open and it has a sticker, something went on. It’s always funny, she’s just funny. I kept that envelope, and I haven’t mounted to my computer monitor at work. And every time somebody sends a text or prayer or something, or says hey, you’re doing a great job, and I will print those off, and I’ll stick them in my that envelope. And so on the days that get really heavy, I can just pull those out as reminders of you know, there are people that are praying for me, there are people that I’m impacting and serving and they see it even if right now I don’t feel it. So sometimes it’s just pulling, you know, kind of pulling some of those things out. But, and I don’t even for a second want it to sound like I’ve got it all like I’m perfect at remembering to point my heart towards God all day long, right? Seriously, I don’t like please, if you’re listening and watching, please don’t think that there’s anybody in the world that actually is doing all the things that we’re sharing with you perfectly, right their ideas. And if you can grab on to one or two of the ideas that from each podcast, you hear like, that’s great, but don’t look at us thinking that we’re doing all the things perfectly. Not even.

    Paige C. Clark 33:16
    Not even close. Yeah. And so I think like, I’m just processing for myself, like the things because one of my next questions would you kind of answer but I’ll give you the chance to like add anything of like, how do you have the energy for God? At the end of the day, like that’s something that I struggle with a lot, because yeah, I got health issues. And now with the job I’m at, currently, it’s a little bit better, but like previously, and other jobs, it was like an energy suck. And at the end of the day, I’m like, I go from my car to bed. And there’s nothing in between there. Yeah. And so like you said, like have your non negotiables you know, have those things that trigger being intentional. Is there anything else you’d want to add on to

    Rose Jordan 34:06
    that? Yeah, you know, I’m too I have some health things. And I actually have this kind of weird thing that was starting to happen to me the other day I haven’t had in a long time. But when I go and go and go for too long, my adrenal system shuts down and I am just like, sick, sick, sick. The last time it happened. I was down for 12 weeks. So I have learned to watch that but but I have learned over the last probably year that I do far better. I have far more energy and I’m able to wake up in the morning if I go to bed early. So if at all possible. I can go to bed between 830 and nine, then it’s easy for me to wake up at six o’clock in the morning without an alarm. I can get up and I’m awake and I could spend time with God. The thing is, it’s kind of a cycle. So if you can just get yourself in this figure out what that time Yeah, and I’m not saying you need to go to bed at 830, right, you get what that is for you. Yeah, that gives your body the rest it needs. So that then you can wake up, you can spend the time with God because it’s the, it’s the start of a cycle, then you start to find your day goes better, you have more energy, you feel better, because you spent time with God doesn’t mean you’re not going to be tired. But it also changes your attitude. You’re rested, and you have had time with God. And so I have learned that if I’m starting to get a bad attitude about things, I need to really pay attention to my thoughts, and I really need to pay attention to am I getting sleep? And am I eating properly? Like, right? It’s just, it’s getting real. And I think, you know, on 40 It’s just, I didn’t even realize I snoozed it, just turn it off.

    Paige C. Clark 35:56
    Okay, Siri, Siri clearly has something to say.

    Rose Jordan 35:59
    Yeah. Don’t forget the figs, Mando fried things. So yeah, it just, sometimes we just have to make some hard choices to get ourselves started. And then once we can kind of get into a good rhythm, it gets better, but but then we also life hits and things get overwhelming. And you know, I have a late event and I can’t go to bed at 830. And I don’t even make it to bed till midnight. Right? Then I’ve got to really pay attention the next day to Okay, first off, I’m going to have grace with myself, I’m going to be tired, I’m not going to wake up at six. And just to be real honest. And on that day, I probably won’t spend time with God in the morning. But the other habits that I’ve created throughout the day, just helped me to point my heart back toward him throughout the day. Right. So it’s having grace for the times when you don’t get to control. But yeah,

    Paige C. Clark 36:51
    yeah, that’s awesome. And yeah, I totally agree of dislike. My best times I know there’s like morning, morning birds and night owls. And I definitely am a person who wakes up early and like feels early. And I’m like, yeah, like, I’m really like, my best writing happens in the morning. I clean the house the best in the morning. Yeah, like, yeah, I am. And so just like getting into that routine, where you wake up early, or well, where I wake myself up early and like, get going in a way that’s you know, gonna be glorifying to God, that’s, that’s really important as well.

    Rose Jordan 37:31
    Well, and I think part of it too, is knowing, you know, the season you’re in. If you’ve got kiddos, it might be the you may be at night owl. But if if in the evenings, you can’t get time alone, instead of constantly trying to go against the grain of your life. By insisting that at night, I’m gonna have time alone and then being angry and frustrated every time the kiddos just disrupt like you’ve set yourself up for failure. Yeah, so you’re gonna have to get real honest about the season wife and I don’t have kiddos at home. I have a 20 year old he’s gone. Gone. He’s not home with me. Right. And so. But, you know, I said earlier that we bought an RV to go be Park hosts. Well, if you’ve ever been in an RV, there’s nowhere to get away from the other person in your house. Right? Yeah. So I have to get up early. Because my husband is great. I love him. But he he keeps forgetting that I’m trying to read I’m trying to just chatter away. So I mean, you sometimes it’s just a matter of knowing like this, this is the season of your life. These are the people in your world, you can either stay constantly frustrated with them because you’re trying to go against the grain, or you find a way that works.

    Paige C. Clark 38:47
    Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Man, you wear so many hats. It’s impressive. So, kind of going off like Okay, so we talked about, you know, adding in just these kind of like, you know, anchors throughout your day. What are some of the spiritual disciplines or discipline that you have a hard time kind of implementing because of your work and your many hats?

    Rose Jordan 39:13
    Yeah. Honestly, the hardest one for me is time dedicated to just praying, like, set apart from everything else and just praying. I I don’t I don’t beat myself up for it. But I also know that throughout the day, I’m talking to God anyway. But that deep intercession like that travailing and I don’t think that necessarily we’re supposed to travail every day. I think travailing is when there’s something heavy. But But real time focused on just intercession. I really, honestly it doesn’t happen unless you know, I’m with a group and that’s our, you know, we’re intentionally praying for something Yeah, I’m not great at that just dedicated intercessory time.

    Paige C. Clark 40:04
    Yeah, yeah. And for me, it’s also like, especially with like my writing and, and if I want any kind of focus time, I can’t be at home, I have to get out of the house. Studios. That’s what your studios for because I like I’m sitting at my office right now and I go doing my office is so messy. What’s that pile of clothes over there? like, Yo, I need to take out the trash like, I don’t know if it’s like backwards, but all my whiteboard, it says clean office right there. Because I have a little bit of shiny object syndrome, and I will get distracted. And so like, for me when I really want that time with God, I have to get out of the house, whether it be in nature, or a coffee shop. Like it doesn’t matter where I’m at. I just need to be away from my life. Yeah, I’m in normalcy, but also working from home. There are some days where I don’t go outside. Like, I hate to admit that. But like, I like how I didn’t step foot outside today like, Yeah, that could be a problem. So yeah, definitely setting aside that time that can be that can be a struggle. And yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that with us. Because I think that I think that sometimes people think like, everyone’s kind of got it down. And you’re the only one who struggles and that’s like, Yeah, true. Yeah, no, no, no one has it all together. So, in wrapping up for our listeners out there, what is one thing that they can do this week, this month, as a takeaway from our conversation, to help build their discipline or their faith practice into their life?

    Rose Jordan 41:51
    Yeah. So before I give a tip, I’m going to say first off, you know, know that not know that not know that God knows the season that you’re in, and he knows the challenges that you have, he knows the people around you live, in fact, he put them there. So rather than try to work against them and fight against that grain, he knows Holy Spirit can help you find a rhythm and a practice to work with your life the way that it is right now. Give yourself grace. Don’t try to compare to what others are doing, or what others say you should be doing. That’s that’s like my first like, no, that first like, Let’s get your mindset right first. Yeah, but practical tips. You know, one would be I shared the virtual Bible caddy. And then another one would be, you know, setting the alarms. And I actually, you know, when I was kind of thinking about this interview, I realized those are both parts of a 10 day do something challenge. So I’m giving you the link, there’s extra 10 things there. 10. Super easy, super quick, a lot of times fun. Well, you know, if you just pick one of those 10 things to do for the next two weeks, like you will have already invested in your relationship with God. So, so like I said, You gave me the link. Yeah. And it’ll be in the show video. It’s got it’s got a YouTube video to walk you through it, or you can read it. So

    Paige C. Clark 43:18
    yeah, awesome. Awesome. And those will be in the show notes too. And I think too, like, I am a very, like, action oriented person. And so it’s like, Give me something to do. Don’t just tell, don’t just tell me that. Like, you can have faith in a full time job too. Because like, we all know that there’s people do that every day. Let’s like give people like, practical takeaways. And so yeah, I’m really excited to share that resource with our listeners. Rose, thank you so much for joining. Yeah. Where can people find you on the interwebs?

    Rose Jordan 43:51
    Okay, so I’m, I’m most active in the Facebook group called beneath the fig tree fix community, or YouTube, and it’s just beneath the fig tree. I’ve got the website beneath victory.org or Instagram, Facebook or beneath victory. Honestly, I’m not super active on the Facebook page or the Instagram page. It’s just

    Paige C. Clark 44:14
    not there. So that’s alright, so the Facebook group or the YouTube channel? Yeah.

    Rose Jordan 44:18
    Those are the places that are most active. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 44:20
    Awesome. Awesome. Rose. Well, thank you so much for joining us, and we’ll catch you next time. Please. Great. Thanks for joining us. If you liked what you were listening to make sure you subscribe and hit those five stars and we’ll catch you on the next episode.

     

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  • 9 to 5 Faith Podcast: Episode 2

    This is a transcript from episode 2 of the 9 to 5 Faith Podcast with Paige C. Clark

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    Start of podcast episode

    Paige C. Clark 00:28

    Well, I am here with my friend Lorien. And we’re going to be talking about just the church and what it looks like to have a relationship with God kind of outside of our regular nine to five and inside our nine to five. And I like to say we’re just the normal people, because I think just the average normal person probably has a nine to five job. So Loriann, can you introduce yourself a little bit?

    Lorien Hershberger 00:56

    Sure. I’m a 39 year old mother of one work remotely from home. But when I started my journey with God, which was intense, I would say because I was very convicted about all it’s time to go all in. At the time, I was working in a bank. So I was working in a physical location. They knew me as one type of personality. And now I’m the new creation. What does that look like? So I’ve been walking that out for about three and a half years now. I love to bake. I am an aspiring author myself, I’m working on a memoir. And that pretty much takes up all my time, you know, in between trying to be a blessing every day. But that’s that’s a little bit about me in a nutshell. Also learning to garden in the last year or so really been trying to do that.

    Paige C. Clark 01:51

    So what are you growing right now?

    Lorien Hershberger 01:54

    Right now? We’re in Florida. So we’re looking at you know, starting tomatoes and peppers. You know, they’re like you have such a long growing season and not really because the rain starts in June and it doesn’t stop until September. So everything you want out of the ground you need to harvest by June.

    Paige C. Clark 02:12

    Yeah, for sure. And a little bit of the same here. We don’t have the rain, but we have the long growing season. But it is cut in summer. So summer, you’re kind of you know, little out of luck. If you if you don’t pull I just I have a bunch of tomatoes in my garden and a ton of broccoli right now. So I haven’t harvested the broccoli. So it flowered these beautiful flowers and the bees are just absolutely loving it.

    Lorien Hershberger 02:38

    Yes. Like they love those brassica flowers.

    Paige C. Clark 02:41

    Yes. I’m impressed. You know, like the names. I’m not even. I’m like they have yellow flowers and green stubs. Yeah. And that’s about as far as I get. So what are you doing right now full time for your job.

    Lorien Hershberger 02:55

    I’m actually it’s really funny story. I was working in finance. And I didn’t really have a course charted for myself, I’ve always had to kind of take what was available. So but as circumstances, you as God began to shift my path as I began to say, putting your kingdom first and all these things will be added unto me, you know, I really began to want practice that and trust God for that. And, and I didn’t have discernment developed yet. So it’s a miracle I ended up in the right place. But I shifted gears it was right before the pandemic hit. And I was moved out of my loan officer position that I was in into human resources, which was the most isolated office in the entire building, and then the pandemic hit. So it was a total move of what I get, I attribute that to God’s hand. And then it wasn’t long after that, I was in that position for about a year and I was offered a position to go home and be a writer, because I really felt like that’s what the Lord was calling me to do. Yeah, but it’s not like the writing that I am passionate about. But it does sharpen my skills daily. So I summarize medical information for veterans that are trying to obtain benefits from the VA. So I edit their Doc, I edit documents all day long and, and I just kind of do that I push that and though I get to interact with my coworkers through chat, so it is a different environment, you know, trying to manage how can you be a blessing through chat, and I’m very isolated in that. But it’s allowed me I feel like time to heal. You know, when you get out there and you’re bust in it nine to 540 hours a week. It is very it’s very hard to manage. So that’s what I do now.

    Paige C. Clark 04:51

    Yeah, I feel like that could be it’s even its own spin off of like working from home and like working from home face versus like in the office. because I feel like that actually looks very different as well.

    Lorien Hershberger 05:04

    It does add, I would add, I have been blessed with some great opportunities to speak the word, I know that I have to be careful and execute with some wisdom, because I don’t want to be in people’s faces when I’m trying to present Christ or the word or, because we can easily become obnoxious with it and turn people off. And sometimes, you know, I’ve even heard that from some mature Christians where they’re kind of loud and proud with it, like you’re going to receive my ability to exercise my faith. And it just is really it turns them so away, but that’s, that’s really, it could be there is the thing that you I found, I thought I was going to have more freedom working from home. But when everything is monitored on your computer, they want you in that seat, eight hours out of the day, as my I have worked more from home than I ever did in office setting.

    Paige C. Clark 06:03

    Right? Yeah, that that’s another good point too. Like, I mean, I can go off on a tangent, but like, out, when I was in the office, I would get up, I would go talk to coworkers, I would go visit people by their desk, I would check it on a project and then just kind of hanging out there, see how life is going. Whereas like here, I know I’m hearing a lot of rumblings in the business world that like work from home is actually more productive, because you don’t have those distractions, but at the same time, it can feel a little bit isolating and that

    Lorien Hershberger 06:36

    it is isolating. I do like the ability to be at home when my son comes home, I think that was the biggest struggle for me, I didn’t, you know, I would have liked to do that whole section of life over again, where I could have had the choice, made the decisions to be at home and be a mother at the same time. But that’s not what life looked like for me. And I didn’t have make sure everybody’s got a choice. I could have trusted God, I didn’t. And so I missed out on all those years. And as as it would, as it would turn out. Not only did I need to sharpen my skill as a writer, that was a financial blessing to take the remote position. But more than that, I feel like we all get to that place where we’re like, I wasted so much time with my son or my daughter that I can’t get back. And in this season, the Lord has allowed me to recoup a little bit of that he’s and it was it was it was the it was the finish line of that time. You’re he’s now my son is. So I’ve only got like one year or two years to savor. But the Lord was like, if that’s all I can give you back, I’m gonna give that back to you. Yes, so he’s an admin. So it was like we I have got to learn about the Lord. He does so many things at once, that I could not have anticipated. And I only had like a week to decide when when that came. Yeah, so I didn’t have very much time to say, well, let me pray about it and get back to write. Because I had been paying attention and in prayer. And I felt like I knew the path that the Lord was leading me into, when I got that surprise invitation. I didn’t even look for the job. My friend said, I know you’re not looking. I was head of HR at the time. And she said, but I have a team, I have an opening on my team for a writer, which was a complete year shift of the track, right, right,

    Paige C. Clark 08:34

    From loan officer to HR personnel to writer and editor. Yeah, that’s, that’s quite the hop, skip, and a jump over there. It is. And

    Lorien Hershberger 08:44

    I like to say this about God, if you are ready when you say God, I’m gonna hand you the wheel, and I’m gonna finally sit in the passenger seat. It’s like he did this, you turn your ad into oncoming traffic and they want to panic about but it’s like I’m trying to get you off the nearest exit. I’ve been waiting on you to make this decision for nearly three decades. I am not going to waste another second trying to get you’re on the path that I designed for it. So I was like, okay, as much as I can emotionally handle he was like change, change change. So within you know, within like a three or four year time period, I changed jobs twice to get to this place that he was a place of blessing if I had been fearful at all. I would have lost the blessing.

    Paige C. Clark 09:33

    Yeah, it’s a story for another time. But I had a situation where, you know, I just had this like a stupid peace about a job change, where I’m like, it doesn’t make sense. It’s like, there’s no rational reason why I should be feeling the things that I’m feeling besides God. And I think for the first time that was like, where I had like peace beyond understanding, and I think it’s really cool. Well that God can even move through our lives in our career. And you pointed it out of not just how we minister at work, but also ensuring like, spiritual and familial growth and fulfillment at home, like a change in career might not be for your career or for that environment. It might be for other reasons that are fulfilling. And I don’t think that’s talked about, like, if ever,

    Lorien Hershberger 10:33

    yes, and to me, I have to say that if I had not received any of the other blessings, if I had not received the alignment with what I feel like is my purpose, if I had not received a financial blessing, the peace that I have about trying to recoup some of the things that I feel like I lost as a mother would have been enough for me to say, I’m all in God. So everything else was a bonus.

    Paige C. Clark 11:01

    Yeah, because, because I do feel like, especially I run into it a lot. Because I work in a, I’ve worked in very corporate environments. And I feel like a lot of the conversation is always about, what’s your next career move? What’s your next step? When, when really, it’s cool to recognize that your next step that God may be leading you in is not for your career?

    Lorien Hershberger 11:30

    That’s right. Yes. Because it’s all about, you know, Soul ambition versus worldly ambition, like, purity you want to be and, and that is how fast do you want to move through these cosmic lessons? How fast? Are you willing? How much of the world are you willing to let go of, and for me, it was a Toronto moment, for sure.

    Paige C. Clark 11:53

    Gosh, that that’s just that’s a beautiful, like, I just had like the aha moment of like, I’ve always just kind of treated my job on the side. I know, for some people, they hold their jobs, really close to their, their identity, and put a lot of their identity in, in their jobs. And it’s easy to do that. And I think that like, if God wanted me, I don’t know, on on the phones all day doing sales, so that so I may have other blessings in other areas of my life. That’s an opportunity that is really cool to think about.

    Lorien Hershberger 12:31

    While and I found to even before I was following the Lord, you know, as far in the job, because it gets even wackier. Before I was a loan officer, I was 911, Administrator for the county, and supervisor over emergency dispatch. So that was even a wilder jump. And I found that looking back, it was it was kind of like a hostile push out of that position. It was you know, it’s under the termination of an elected official. So if he has somebody different in mind for a position that you currently hold, you’re in danger almost every four years. And it kind of came to that place where I was, it was a negative, it was a negative Firestorm, I was pushed out. It was very public, it was humiliating. And I look back on that. And it was because it was so public, I had a friend that worked at the bank. And they said, hey, you know, I’ve got a position here. And there was an open door already there for me. And I really thank the Lord for that. Because I came to this piece of this jewel that I feel like brought comfort to my heart was rejection is sometimes deliverance. And to get me on the path that he wanted to get me on where I could even receive the word I had to get out of that chaotic environment, I was never going to receive the routes, we’re never going to grow in my heart. That was very hard because of the stress and the pressure of that job. But being it he allowed it, you know, it was not a good experience. But I thank God for it every day because you know, he pushed me right out and I wasn’t even following him, then that’s the thing that I look back on. And I’m like, You are so amazing that you are not going to fail, even when I am ridiculous. Brings me such a comfort.

    Paige C. Clark 14:27

    Right? Gosh, yeah, absolutely. And, and I think to just knowing and like, especially, I mean, hindsight is 2020 Looking back, you see all of the seeds that were planted kind of along the way. Yeah, I could

    Lorien Hershberger 14:42

    have, I could have very well let my pride get in the way I could have dug in my heels in that position and said, I’m going to fight to keep it this is mine. I could have fought for the pride of my name, but I said I’m gonna choose peace and I’m gonna go through this open door. That’s been the but here just for me, I felt like it was almost right. And he blessed that.

    Paige C. Clark 15:04

    I love that. So let’s talk a little bit about your day-to-day. Like, let’s talk about what a week in Lorien’s life looks like. And where we’re like, yes, you have your family in your home to build. But what does also like your work and your faith and how those two intersect, and maybe family and home kind of work in there. But I don’t have kids. So I can’t really speak to that.

    Lorien Hershberger 15:36

    Okay, well, I’ll be happy to share that with you. Because I am a person that does better I draw a sense of comfort from systems and schedules and things like that not so rigid anymore, that it impedes what I feel like it’s the spirit, but I get up. Every morning, I try to make sure it’s between 530 and six that don’t always succeed at that. But I get up and I have one of two things that I’m going to gravitate towards some mornings, I don’t feel like getting in the Word. And I’m not going to force myself to do that. I do you feel like I have another priority in the writing, which is an expression of how I feel like the Lord uses his gifts in me. The words are very important. So whatever I feel like I’m gravitating towards, I will sit down and open up my word and my prayer journal, which I swear by Ben prayer journaling for over three years now. And I can go through one in about six months. But I began to pray about those things. And I’ll wrap them in a time them. And just because I love to go back and read and reflect on the things that God has done. And also know that those are not always my words, if he’s coming through me, and he’s expressing himself through me in that way. Then I asked him all the time, I say, Lord, help me to pray about those things that you want to see done in my life. I don’t want to continue to lift up, so and so salvation, you know, if you’re, if that’s not the time for them, yet, I’ve prayed that I trust that in your hand, what do you want to do now, because I need to see your work in my life, it’s a little bit selfish, where I was like, I need to win here, I need to see the hand of God, drop through this fabric here. So I pray, I try to make sure that I My prayers are. And the way that I would say that spiritually is that I want my prayers to be in line with the will of God. Yeah. And so I’ll spend about an hour and a half doing a drink my coffee, I get in my prayers, but in that journal is also my reading that I’m in and I have a default that I kind of lean back on, which is a three six, you know, read the Bible in a year. Right? But I’m not I’m not one of these that I’m never going to be like, Okay, well, I didn’t accomplish that. Because I do get what I call chasing rabbits in the word, which means I’m out started in Genesis, but they’re going to I’m going to read the commentary to that. And they’re going to drop a reference over here to maybe the book of Daniel, and I’m gonna go over there and read and reinforce it, because I’m so curious. I mean, I think that’s really what motivates me is my curiosity about God. And because he’s shown me so much of the Word is true. So I’m going to do that in the morning time, or I’m going to write which is working on the memoir, which I should do more of, I don’t know why all of a sudden it becomes a chore when it’s a project now I could have written really before but now it’s something I feel like I have to do so

    Paige C. Clark 18:42

    I feel that way a lot when I like look back at like school and stuff where I’m like, I wish I could do that now it’d be like a lot more enjoyable. It was in high school or in college like I wish I could take these classes now versus I had to back

    Lorien Hershberger 18:59

    Right well and you know, I have had the opportunity to go and do that but that’s another topic to take in a Spanish class and I wish I would have paid attention in high school but that’s that’s what I do I kind of go into one of those two lanes I do discipline and say these are the choices where your morning reflections and sometimes I don’t you know I give myself grace in that sometimes I’m just not very I’ll barely get up in time to make it to my computer which is ridiculous to log in. But when I get in that groove and and I have to make sure I don’t forget to pray, Lord, help me get up and meet me in that place. And because if I ever forget that it I do start filling the drain on end and I need the Lord to refresh me in that so I’ll sit down at my computer which I love. I love love love working from home. My husband puts some birdfeeders right Outside my winter, because he’s an ace. And so I’ll watch the birds. And then I kind of, you know, our boss will will say, these are the claims that we would need to make a priority today. And we’ll get that. But there’s bit, it was interesting to watch, because I really don’t have any background in medical. And this is we’re compiling medical evidence and putting in summarizing it. So that is really a miracle that I even got the job. But then I get put into the mental health lane. And I don’t have any experience in that. But there was one other lady that I was working with, it was only me and her. So I’ve watched God kind of and that’s, that’s what I put to it is I’ve been put in this position, why? Who am I supposed to be connecting with. And so I do the job, but at the same time, make sure that I’m flexible enough to say, if I get interrupted, whose is this person on my mind not to ignore those subtle prompts of reach out and chat this person. And, and I look to it was just, it’s just amazing the way that that that that has that had that has worked. One instance, if if if I may, one instance, typical, typical situation, she had dropped in the chat that she was having a rough time, this was in our group chat. It’s very casual. And she was in the middle of a divorce. And her daughter was a wall and I really gravitated towards her. And I got to know her better because we got stuck in the same mental health lane. And she was a, you know, an anchor for me, and she’s very knowledgeable and experienced. So I just kind of appropriately chatted her. And I said, you know, is there anything I can pray about with you? And they know that I love the Lord. I mean, I think that anytime I got the opportunity to establish that idea. Yeah, just so they, I just feel like it was important to say, you know, if they, if they would speak something in the chat, and I’ll say, Oh, well, that’s a scripture. And there’s a scripture for that. So it was important to let them know, Hey, if you need you write a beacon, just wanting to establish myself as that beacon, right. And so I chatted her and she said, Oh, bless your heart, you know, she so it’s one of those things where she acknowledges God, but maybe he doesn’t claim to him, right, maybe he doesn’t walk with him, maybe doesn’t acknowledge his name and all things. So I just had an opportunity to tell her a testimony which was involved when my when my mother passed away and how the Lord was faithful. And I wasn’t, I was actually kind of mad at God, I think at that moment. And my mom ordered some books in the mail, not knowing she wasn’t going to receive them. And I received them in the days that I was trying to bury her. And I had a body I didn’t know how I was gonna, how I was gonna bury her because I was very young, I was only 23 Not financially solvent. Right. And the book’s title was the buzzards are circling, but God’s not done with me yet. So she has a little bit of an edgy personality, and I knew she wouldn’t be offended by that. And I just kind of told her, I was like, you know, he’s never late. He’s never like my friend. And this is a testimony to that effect. So I got an opportunity to kind of slide that in. But, you know, I just kind of go through my day like that. Looking for opportunities. If I get them, they’re very rare. Yeah, I am not, I would say I’m probably one of the only ones in that environment that is strong in faith. So, but it gives me an opportunity to, you know, as I see the things that they post in jest, and here are the kind of comments that they make, and I know that they may be living without hope, then they go into my prayer journal, before I even start the day, if they’re on my mind, you know, them out, then I’ll begin I work a lot from the beginning of Square One is to pray. That’s why when when I’m going to try and affect change in a situation or in, in an environment. Step one is to pray. And then I say to the Lord, help me build relationships with with the persons that’s whose hearts are ready. And that’s the important thing like I, we can go out there and I think I’ve heard this kind of preached before, which was, you know, the, the sower doesn’t care. They just sowed the seed liberally and they it just lands all over the place. Right? If you want to be good at what you do, you don’t want to sow seeds out of season. I mean, as I’m learning and developing my skills in the garden, you’re wasting you’re wasting your seeds if Yeah, it takes very little effort to kind of scan you know in read the back of the packet, which is the same as people, you know, get to know them a little bit, see what they need, they might not need I can do all things through grassroots strengthens my right, they might need something different. They might need to know that God makes everything beautiful and has time they might need what is what is the remedy? Nothing. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 25:19

    Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think to you, you touched on something like the people you have close proximity to, like, you can kind of get a sense of like, okay, do they have a relationship with Jesus? But you got me thinking, as you were saying that I was like, You know what, like, I feel like, I’m the only one in kind of my department that might know, Jesus. But then also, I’m like, okay, but like, how often do I talk about him? And like, What if everyone else is acting like, I’m acting in terms of like, not talking about Jesus? And like, what, you know, like, what if there’s, like hidden Christians in the room room that I just don’t know about? Because they’re acting like I’m acting, and they’re acting like, I’m acting in the sense that like, I don’t really talk about Jesus a whole lot, you know, or my relationship with him or anything like that. And so, as you were saying that those were that thoughts, like running through my mind of like, Hmm, maybe, maybe, maybe I should, you know, be a little bit more forward with that. And I think there’s, I think there’s fear in that. But also, I think that, that you can, I don’t know, God can work through it and find community, and, you know, be a hope to others.

    Lorien Hershberger 26:42

    Yeah, and if you’ll allow me to kind of take a little dog into that is two things that really motivated me to, to get truly out of the boat. You know, you hear that all the time, when you say, get out of the box, get out of the boat. And one of the guys in the church that I was at at the time, and this was just when God was kind of cracking me open on my shell. He said, but don’t make it weird. You don’t even know what you’re saying. Like, in retrospect, I was like, you can’t tell me that. Because, you know, here’s the thing weird is subjective. And so some really comical things transpired when I was like, I’m coming after you, God, I don’t know what’s right or wrong, but we’re gonna go through this rough process of trial and error here. And it was, you know, so in the, in the workplace. So like, you’re talking about these, these hidden, hidden Christians, that I’ll give two examples of that, and how it is very relevant to what has produced this zeal in me. And God has honored that he’s, he’s definitely blessed it with food. But there was one lady in the office in my previous job where this all began. And she was probably the most despised person in the office, she was, you know, she was she was the one that was kind of subject to gossip all the time. And I never I didn’t step out and defend her at all, I didn’t have that close relationship with her. I was like, I was kind of like, it’s not my business. You know, I’m not, I’m just gonna, even though and so but that was me before I committed myself to the Lord. When I committed myself to the Lord. Some, my perspective began to change. And so all these other women, though, that were there, they were openly Christian, and they were not behaving in a very cross like way. And when I came out of when I really came into what I could say, come into the lab, when I came into the understanding, and I committed myself to the Lord. There’s one thing that really bugged me was that I was surrounded by Christians in my office professing Christians, but nobody was wondering about my soul. Nobody wants that nobody was looking for me as the way that I like to say it. So I don’t remember any edifying conversations, or anybody trying to figure out, you know, where my soul was. And I was like, that’s a shame to be surrounded by, you know, Christians. And the Lord even speaks about that in the Bible. Now he’s talking to if I’m not mistaken, he’s talking to the pastors of the church. He says, You have not gone out to look for my lost sheep. They are lean, and they’re hungry. And he’s like in awe. And you’re, you’re over here eating good. You’re over here taking care of yourself, but you’re not going out to look for my lost sheep. He’s like, you will be priests no more, and I’m going to go out and I’m going to get my sheep myself. Praise God for that. But after after that come about, I really felt compelled to defend this woman. And she ended up now she knew like everybody else in the office was really scared of my train for transformation. Because I was really kind of dark and reserved. I was a tough person. You said good morning to you might get a good grunt, but I’m going to

    Paige C. Clark 30:00

    And you were with the same team. Right? Like, before Christ and after Christ.

    Lorien Hershberger 30:06

    Yes. Okay. Yes, at that time, it was very uncomfortable because I’m, I’m got a new identity, I’ll get out of the way blonde, right? A lot right now. But she ended up she knew what had happened because she really had had a very similar experience where she was just you know, the Word says that the love of God has poured into us, you know, and so you can’t help but just, it’s transformative, really, truly when you get that way, right. She had experienced that before this woman that was despised. And so she’s just kind of celebrating her heart, not openly, she comes to me lighter. And she says, you know, because everybody kind of turned on me all of a sudden, I’m crazy. I’m a lunatic. So but this woman came to me. And I was, first of all, I was very ashamed of the fact that I never stood up for her. I should have that was an injustice. And I did apologize to her. But she told me the story about how she came to know the Lord and it was in a workplace setting. And she was in the break room with this other girl. And this other girl asked her just simply said, Are you saved? And she was kind of smart, smarty pants about it. She’s like, What, am I drowned in? I’m not drowned in. And the woman the Christian said, Oh, but you are. And she, she invited her to church, the woman went to church with her and she was transformed. Wow. And so it was one of those things I didn’t know she had that kind of walk with the Lord. Yeah. And the other women were very, you know, they were kind of open about their Christianity, but they might not they might not be a good example. It just it everything flipped every half upside down. So yes, that from that moment, I have been determined to make sure it is known. And the second thing is, is that because I don’t want if there’s somebody in my vicinity, and I have the ability to either number one, introduce them to the Lord, or strengthen them in Christ. I feel like that’s a daily daily mission.

    Paige C. Clark 32:14

    Yeah, yeah. I’m like writing notes over here, as you’re saying that I was like, Oh, wow. Like that’s like gossip in the workplace. Like, that’s a problem. But that’s a whole thing of itself. And I have participated in it shamefully in the past. And, you know, I’m being reconvicted all over again, as as you’re talking, because it does happen. And I think too, like, the other part of it is which, which leads me into my next question is like, the fear of making a mistake, right? Like, we’re, we’re all human, we’re all sinners, we Wilson, we will make mistakes. But being amongst people for the majority of our life, right, like we’re with, we’re with our co workers more than we’re with our family sometimes. So we’re bound to make mistakes, and then have that. I think for me, there’s that fear that it’s going to tarnish their view of a person who follows Jesus or a Christian because it’s like, oh, look, she’s doing X, Y, or Z. And she, you know, calls herself a person of faith and and I think there’s that fear there. And I think that’s really real. A really real trap that we can fall or fall into ourselves. And so that that was gonna lead me to the question of, when you go to work, or when you leave work, do you feel like I don’t know, like, You’re a different person. Like you wrote something. When we were talking before of like, like, your workspace and what you do for a living it can be your mission field, right? And so like, you have like your home and you have kind of your core. And then you have your mission field, right, like Jesus had his 12 people and then he went, it would go out and work in the field. And so I feel like not that they’re different personalities or masks, but I think like the headspace and the intention that you go into the situation with is different.

    Lorien Hershberger 34:26

    Yeah, it definitely. I think the the more we really first I think it’s great that we recognize that there’s a difference. And our next goal is to shorten that gap. I think for me, it has been because I don’t have the energy to kind of maintain two different modes. Yeah, so I I’ve been really trying to and I guess I could I’m gonna use the full armor of God on this on this one. You know, we get in this mentality. Like when we go to work, we’re gonna go to hit suit up. We’re gonna put on the full armor of God, we’re going, we’re ready to go out into the world and share, you know, be be that person because you know, it is you you do become more accountable when you advertise and you say, I’m a child of God, like you say, I think that recognize that there’s truth in that, well, you’re apprehensive of putting yourself out there because then you’re gonna have this scrutiny. Right? And that, and that, to me, I would speak to that what I have learned in that is, is that, yeah, there is there’s going to be some discomfort, there’s going to be some failure, but it’s the Lord that gives us the grace to achieve success in that, and I can’t ever forget that. And, and it would, and I would use the word trying to manufacture the fruits of the Spirit rather than allowing the Lord to grow them in you. And I think that myself included, you know, we fall into that this is what I think Jesus looks like. So this is how I’m going to act, instead of saying, Lord, because there’s some really, there’s some faulty characteristics in me that I thought, as I see that a gentle and quiet spirit is pleasing to You, Lord, in Your word, but I really wish he would have given me that.

    Paige C. Clark 36:20

    Yes, I guess.

    Lorien Hershberger 36:22

    like, how do I suppress this, these parts of me that I feel like are not pleasing in your sight, and they’re gonna bring shame to your name. And so I really felt like this was the response. He’s like, you know, yes, I know, you get too big for your britches, it’s adorable, I’m able to humble you when you get, you know, out of border. So I know that you’re very vocal, give me your mouth, and you have permission to be bold with my message, but don’t get crazy. So and I could tell you some really humorous things that I did in the newness of trying to be that change factor in the workplace. But I learned that he’s gonna take everything that in is in me that I thought was bad. And he’s going to transform it if I give him enough time, and I’m persistent and following him. And I’m persistent in prayer. And I found to that if I do these little things that I feel like he’s calling me to do to be obedient, he opens big doors. And those two things are tied together often. So I would say, you know, I would, I would say to that, that’s the goal is to shorten that gap in between those two personalities. And sometimes we get home and we say, I want to, I want to take off the armor of God now, because I’m home and I want to relax, when home is absolutely the time that you need to make sure that you have it on. You know, first and foremost that that really is the workplace is the mission field. But if the enemy can tear up your home life, you can’t produce anything good outside of it. Yeah, my husband could testify on that. But I have, I have said that I was like, and I’ve actually heard those words said by other Christians, where they’re like, I have to be so careful about everything I do outside the home, I don’t want to have to execute that kind of discipline inside the home, I want to be able to relax, I don’t want to have to worry about the things so much that come out of my mouth. And my response to that is when God answers your prayer, when you lift this prayer up, and you say Create in me a clean heart, O God and renew a right spirit within me. The more pure your heart becomes the less work it is to Yeah, the less work it is to present a you know, a good image of cross because your mind and your heart. He does. He gives you those new things. I didn’t think it was possible. I really didn’t. And that was one of the things that kept me from submission was I was like, I, I’m tired. I’ve been tired of that. And my inner demons, you know, whoever your person is with these hostile thoughts? Yeah, I have no hope that this person that I can’t fight this, I just want to honestly succumb to the dark. Yes. Because I’m tired of fighting it. Yeah. But the Lord has definitely shown me that he can transform all of the things that we feel like and I hope that’s not off base like this, that no, you

    Paige C. Clark 39:21

    Actually like took what I was thinking and kind of flipped it around. Because I was thinking like, when I’m at work, I may be more reserved and what I say just because of it being taken out of context, being able to explain myself all the way legal reasons and I’m hoping in a future episode, I can talk to an employment law lawyer who talks about like, what, what can and should Christians be able to do in the workplace legally, you know, so I was talking about like, rather than like, suiting up, I’m like, okay, like, I have to be honest Art in the workplace a little bit more than like, I would be like, at church or hanging out with my friends or hanging out with my family. You’re, it’s funny though, you kind of took it and went the opposite way with it of like, No, you need to be on guard at home and with your family, against the devil and, and like, I’m like that’s so true. Because I absolutely believe you know, like, when we let our guard down at home, like we’re safe, we think we’re safe. But, but that’s kind of when our when our walls are down, that’s when we’re most vulnerable. But I do think that going into your workplace, and being able to allow Jesus to shine and the way that he ministered to the people. I think like, that’s always my best bet when it comes to like ministering to people is just like, do it how Jesus did it. And that’s in relationship and who are we around more than our co workers? Like? I’m sure there’s a stat out there, but we work more than we spend a week time with our, with our people. And, and so I think that’s why one, I think that’s why a lot of people either feel the pressure to enter into some kind of formal ministry role, whether it’s a pastor, or you know, it’s some kind of mission work, like they feel pressure because, you know, it’s, it’s a very obvious equation where it’s like, I’m supposed to be, you know, showing the light of Jesus, always. And it’s not saying that being a pastor, and like, being a missionary is the easy way. But it’s kind of obvious, it’s, it’s obvious, right? Like, you should obviously be talking about Jesus. Whereas like, you’re sitting as a copywriter, and an editor behind a computer. That’s not so easy to be obvious with your faith. And, you know, I work on, I work in social media, and it’s not always the easiest thing to lead and be obvious with my faith in that way, either. So both in the work that I produce, and with the, behind the scenes with my co workers that that exists.

    Lorien Hershberger 42:37

    Yeah, and, and, and has to say, on that, that’s 100%, like, when you have all of your interests combined into one outlet, it does bring some measure of peace, like, I do find myself as apt because I have a heart that I want to go into ministry one day, I just don’t I’m in transition, where I’m trying to do both of those things, right. But the interesting thing was, I did have a situation in my newness at work, where I had an office right next to my bosses, and I had people coming in and out of my office all day long. So I was like, Oh, great, this is gonna be an awesome opportunity to, you know, kind of minister to people as they come in. And it was one of those things where I said something to this person, and my boss heard it. And it was really kind of misinterpreted what I said, and it really caused a big problem, I actually got called into the president’s office, and he said, you know, we really have to be careful about, you know, the things that we say. And it was really, you know, in a polite way, asking me to leave religion at home. And so the, the, and he was actually a believer, he actually has scripture on his window sale, but he put the interests of the bank and the members, or the he put them, put them first. And the thing that I would say, I feel like I’ve learned, you know, in reverse looking things, looking at things in front in another way, in some growth is one good way to minister or to shine or to show Jesus is just to do your job well. And because if you have any desire to work for the Lord one day, I think sometimes we see people gonna go into ministry like that, and I don’t want to discount you know, everybody that works in ministry, but they kind of get in there because it’s maybe a more grace filled environment or, you know, for whatever reason, they kind of gravitate toward that thinking it’s going to be an easier path. But you’re working for the Lord at that point. And I so in my current job, it really kind of compels me to say am I really given my best? Am I m r is my work Excellent. I think that’s step one. When is too, and I think that the Lord will give you a favor in that as well. So and as you become lifted up, your influence becomes more and more, and then your words carry more weight with people. So I think step one to me would be, do do your job with excellence as if until the Lord here to really grab on to that scripture and prove it true. So that means that no more slacking on these documents, like if I want to just I want to get this off my plate, or I’m supposed to call this person back promptly. But two or three days later, I still haven’t called them. You know, however, that looks like in your job. That there there are ways that you can kind of tighten up. And as you do that, I just really believe the Lord will lift you up and as you lift are lifted up. So is his name.

    Paige C. Clark 45:55

    Yeah, man, you just kind of jumped forward there of like, what, what I was gonna ask you, which was like, What is like one takeaway that people who are listening can implement in their lives? So maybe like, Do you have another one? Like, number one is excellence be excellent in what you do as a first step to showing Jesus in the workplace? Do you have another one another takeaway?

    Lorien Hershberger 46:21

    My second one is to love. Well, you know, because I think a lot of the times we try to win people to Christ without loving them, and then it becomes a burden, and it becomes a chore and it becomes a task. And I heard this recently said, you know, well, I want to protect my peace. And in Scripture, you know, Jesus says, I give you my peace, and not as the world gives, but I give it and in the book of Isaiah, and I’m sorry, I can’t tell you where exactly it is. I know that y’all know, we’re Google. But in the book of Isaiah, he says, He will keep him in perfect peace, whose faith is firm. So when we’re dealing with people, sometimes we can say, I’m going to put this wall up. And because I want to protect my peace, and then the Lord says, in the Scripture, I don’t know how many times but this one, I’m going to use an example, he tells Abraham on your shield, your exceedingly great reward. So I would say, you know, don’t be so careful about protecting yourself from people this is, this is what I feel like I had had to make the shift in my mind, which is the job come second, people come first. So I can work anywhere. And I know that, you know, because we get in that mode, where we have somebody come to our office, and we’re really busy. And we don’t have time to listen to what they’re saying. But they’re saying that they have a fractured relationship with their mother. That might not be what they say, they might come in your office venting. But what they’re really saying, if you’re listening with your spiritual areas, I have a fractured relationship with my mother. They need prayer. So make time for that. If you have some good counsel, one of the things that, you know, I think that you said, really kind of caught me just to kind of, you know, hit back on that for me, I know you’re wanting to close up, but you’re good when this when these people kind of look and they say Oh, well isn’t she supposed to be, you know, a follower of Christ. And she there was this one person in the workplace, she was the only unbeliever in the place. And not only did she not believe that she was hostile to the Lord, and I didn’t know the word then I would have loved to express to her, you know, when you attack the Lord, and you might, you might not understand it, but anybody that’s a follower of Christ receives the God as their Father, Jesus Christ as their older brother. This is so you’re you’re literally attacking their family member. It’s insulting, and it’s hurtful and to be able to explain that into a way where they might be able to have greater compassion toward Christians in the workplace, and God as a whole, like you really being hostile toward him. When they open the conversation up, I wasn’t prepared. I didn’t know the word I didn’t know God. So I just had to kind of sit there with my mouth shut. But that’s what motivates me to go to the word in the morning is when the opportunities arise. I want to pre be prepared. And I love when it says that in the Scripture, be prepared to give an answer. You know why you have this hope? So, you know, be excellent in your job, love people, well make time for them genuinely, you know, try to, you know, pray those things in there, pray change into their life, and have a good be be hopeful because that’s gonna be that magnet that draws people in and say, you know, what’s different, you know about, or we hear that in the church all the time, you know, to be a lot, but you know, it It’s gonna draw them in for conversation. And all you have to do is like a beta trap. I feel like the Lord sets in the workplace, you load yourself up with the word, and wait until God brings them to your table.

    Paige C. Clark 50:12

    I love that Lorien. And I at my church, we call them throat punches, which is like, where it’s kind of like a gut punch, like, check yourself kind of thing. You just hit me so many throw punches you don’t even know of putting, like, you can have a new job that that hits hits me hard of like, what I was saying at the beginning of so many of us make our job our identity. Yes. And like, when you say like, you can always get another job put people first it’s like, Whoa, I always say like, well if like, man, that that it’s true, is true. And to have someone says very throat punchy, have you so

    Lorien Hershberger 50:56

    The best way I get I really feel like that’s part of my charm. And, you know, the one thing I would say is, and this is probably for totally now the segment, but it will if you if you do that, it will align you into the purpose for which you were born. God says I had designed good works for you in advance. And so my, I don’t make decisions anymore. I made one decision to follow Christ. And now the rest of my time is spent trying to figure out what he wants me to do.

    Paige C. Clark 51:30

    That’s beautiful. Lorien, thank you so much for joining us. Where can people find you? I want people to go and hear your words of wisdom and hopefully one day read that memoir of yours. So where can they find you? I’m

    Lorien Hershberger 51:44

    I’m most active on Facebook, so you can find me Lorien Hershberger it’s it’s definitely a unique name. And, and I’m also on Instagram as cash noise. So those are my two places and I am working on a website but I don’t have that built yet. That makes

    Paige C. Clark 52:06

    all the good things. Well, thank you so much for joining us and we’ll catch you guys next time. Bye

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