• 9 to 5 Faith Podcast: Episode 12

    This is a transcript from episode 12 of the 9 to 5 Faith Podcast with Paige C. Clark.

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    Start of Podcast

    Paige C. Clark 0:36
    You’re listening to the Nine-to-five Faith podcast. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the podcast. I’m here with my friend Tanya. Tanya, can you say hello to everyone listening?

    Tanya Tenica 0:47
    Hello, what’s going on, guys?

    Paige C. Clark 0:50
    How’s it going?

    Tanya Tenica 0:52
    It’s fantabulous.

    Paige C. Clark 0:54
    Good. So can you tell our audience just a little bit about you right off the job? Yeah, yeah, sure.

    Tanya Tenica 1:01
    Um, my name is Tanya Tenica. I have been in business and ministry for over 20 years. And I am equipped to train and unite a lot of what you would call, we call them fivefold, but you can look at it as leaders in the industry, whether they’re mentors, whether they’re coaches, ministry, leaders, whatever that looks like. So I help them understand, you know, get clear, become productive. And so that way, they can see the results and take action.

    Paige C. Clark 1:33
    Oh, that’s awesome. And how long have you been doing that?

    Tanya Tenica 1:36
    It’s been over 20 years?

    Paige C. Clark 1:38
    And how did you fall into that? Did you like decide to do it? Or, like, was there a journey path that you just like decided to take? I don’t get

    Tanya Tenica 1:48
    I heard anybody that actually is in a level of influence or leadership say, I jumped right in because of all that comes with it. Essentially, my high school sweetheart, we got married, and we had our first son. And then I got pregnant with my daughter. And the day that I got pregnant, I was able to he came home from work, and I was actually able to tell him, we’re pregnant. And at that point, I never saw him again; he got killed in a hit-and-run motorcycle accident. And at that point, it’s like I became psychologically unemployable. And I saw how my the job cheated me and how all that journey and the unrealistic ability to heal in a lot of areas before I went back to work, and so I started doing photography, because I was like, you know, I wanted more memories, and I didn’t get enough pictures. And photography was something I was; I’m such a creative, and I’m really good at, so it just snowballed. And then, lo and behold, how God works. A lady came to me from a networking company or networking place; it was like BNI. And she’s like, I would really love to sit with you. And I’m like, okay, and I’m an activator. So I don’t just like to speak on certain things; I should actually show you how to get it done. Right. And so she’s like, I’d really, really love to speak with you. And I said, Okay, so we had lunch, and lunch became another lunch with three more women, and then 15 men and women, and then it grew and grew. And I was like, yeah, there might be something here. And I started meeting with them monthly, training them, and then having them come up and start coaching them through some areas biblically because I got to see the word of God. Like, I always see it through business and biblical and building. And then, lo and behold, it just never stopped. Wow, that’s awesome.

    Paige C. Clark 3:57
    Group. Now, I actually, like, if you’re comfortable talking about it, you said something, and I’m like, Ooh, I want to like to dig into that more of, like, you said, I was psychologically unemployable, which I totally understand what you mean by that. But, like thinking of people who are going through that as the employee’s side and the employer’s side, okay, what is something that would have made that more manageable or net-like, easier to navigate from your perspective of someone who might be going through either a tragic death like you did, or even something that they feel psychologically unemployable?

    Tanya Tenica 4:45
    What do you mean like, how, how they can identify that or Yeah, and if I bet, How could they jump out? Or yeah,

    Paige C. Clark 4:55
    if they want to, if they wanted to work through it and stay in the workforce, or either if you want to talk about it from an employer perspective of, like, what could employers do to help kind of ease that burden and to help their employees better navigate like a tragedy like that.

    Tanya Tenica 5:16
    So what I’ve realized, God has blessed me to be able to see through Ephesians four that there are different functions there are different profiles. One of the things we see the apostle, prophet, evangelist, teacher, pastor, but what we don’t also see in there that we also have, in general, we have what the deacons and we have the elders, well, what does that look like, in the workforce? Well, you have those, I would say; the elders would be the intrapreneurs. So if you want to stay in the workforce, you want to stay where you want, agree with the vision, and that you can be able to come and collaborate and that that employer honors your beautiful creative brain and all of the attributes and the way that you want to distribute that right. And so that would be like, you have an employee. And they love that I’d say, oh, my gosh, do you like marketing? Do you like communication? Do you like this? I want to make you the director of this because I know that you’re your brain; you don’t want to. Actually, you’re still entrepreneurial. But you don’t want to actually be the entrepreneur; you want to be able to come along, still have all the benefits, but not take on some of those things; you can be a multimillionaire as an employee just the same. It depends on where your employer caps you out. So what I would probably say is, look at a company, a, somebody who is in business, that is in an area that you absolutely love, you want to start to follow them, you want to start to do that and make sure that they’re making, I’m gonna say anywhere between 250 to 500k, you really want them in a different space, and start going there and saying, Hey, this is what I’m looking at. Because you have to yield to your creative brain, you have to yield to the fact that you want structure because there is safety in that; you want that you like that. But you don’t want to have the structure of prison; you want to know that you could and piece together this and, you know, reestablish and say, Okay, I’m going to take down this wall. And I’m not going to take away the prime part of peace. But I want to add that I want to make the living room more spacious. You want to be able to have that. So that’s honestly that that’s what I would say you want to collaborate and be wherever you are. That’s going to help you do that. So let’s just say you’re even working for Geico. Well, if you are just taking calls, that’s not really where you’re going to be; we’ll see if you can get into the marketing department, see if you can, you know, explore and do something that would be more creative. So it’s really just yielding to how you operate. If you’re evangelistic, you’re going to want to be on the communications. So then climb up the communications ladder. Yeah. Makes sense. And again, the innovative ideas, but just make sure that they’re not going to cap you out, which is why I essentially say, you can rub elbows a little bit more with someone other than GEICO because you can only go right. You can’t like to say hey, what’s up, GEICO owner all-rounder.

    Paige C. Clark 8:33
    work. Right. Hopefully

    Tanya Tenica 8:34
    that answered that question. It’s, yeah, being where you are. And that you’re entrepreneurial. But it doesn’t mean you have to own a business.

    Paige C. Clark 8:42
    Yeah, who. I like that. I like that a lot. Because honestly, that is a little bit of, like, where I fall because I have many side hustles, but I also work very full-time. And you know, work for a different company. But I have those elements that I can not get fulfilled in my job. But I have found other creative outlets to be able to kind of foster my strengths. So nail on the head right on. So talk about kind of what your day-to-day looks like and how you incorporate, like, your time with God, your time with a community, your time with the church, in the midst of a crazy work schedule.

    Tanya Tenica 9:35
    So for me, then I don’t separate them. That’s number one. Yeah, a lot of times, what we do is separate God’s relationship and everything from what we do. So I’m not religious about it. So, for instance, if I wake up at four in the morning, and I’m feeling I need to go work out. I’ll go work out, right? I’m not going to freak out because I didn’t read three scriptures and chant five things. And it’s just not what I’m going to do. Right. But I’m always acknowledging God. So what I got to do in my life was always acknowledge His presence and be in gratitude for his presence. So while I’m working out, believe it or not, I’m talking. I’m like, Father, God, I thank you, I am mighty, I am strong. Oh, my gosh, you know what I just want to get, but I’m going to put this first. I know, I can do this. God, I know I can put my health first. You have so much for me. You know, and I’m literally this is how I’m talking to God in my workout. Right? So it’s like, we think that we have to be, like, right here with a pen and paper. So in this little person, right, oh, it’s not that. There are times that I’m like, I incorporate going for a walk. I just keep my phone off. And I literally just talk to God on the way; I’ll be in silence. And I’ll just be like, Lord, just just speak to me. Just pour out your love. And I just want to acknowledge who you are right now. And I’m grateful for everything. So what I’ve done is I’ve incorporated him in everything I do. I don’t care if I’m washing the dishes, I’m talking to the Lord, or praying in the Spirit. I, I’m doing a marketing campaign. God would put this here. I don’t know. Does this even sound? Right? Okay, let me read it again. Like, what’s your thought process on that? And literally, Holy Spirit will just like, change this. I’m like, Oh, my God. Great idea. What do you think about that? I’m literally talking to God like this right away.

    Paige C. Clark 11:45
    Right away.

    Tanya Tenica 11:47
    I don’t just pick up my Bible and flip and then just say, What am I going to read? I’m like, Father, God, what do you have to speak to me too? Or what’s going on? Or where are we at? What do I need to heal from what is this looking like, and then I go find what that looks like. Community, I’ll be an honest community, and I incorporate rest, a lot of rest. I’m a creative person. So I changed my environment a lot. I know that I need to get out of my environment of sitting at a desk in order for me to be creative. And in order for me to be present, I need to have rest and family time, alone time, and self-care; I need to feel good and look sexy like I need that in order to really be present for anyone. Yeah. And even present for myself. And so when it comes down to that’s like the rest, so I don’t get caught up with a lot of the volunteering at church and community stuff because it is always there. So I’m not going to convict myself. I’m a wealth builder. And I know my place. And so I am actually more effective in certain areas than to be volunteering. I have gotten into that place where I worked almost 80 to 6080 hours in a week. Okay, volunteering, doing all that while my family went to crap, my marriage was going to crap, and my business was pretty much nonexistent. My lights were shut off, my food and my kids were not being paid, and nothing happened from it. It’s not like I was supported or helped. Yeah. So I would say be careful because I don’t want you prostituted either. Yeah. So if there’s something that you know you’re gifted in, and your heart is like, oh, my gosh, and you want to do that every other week or something? Go for it. Yeah. If you know that you’re supposed to be in the church. That’s a different thing. I get it, but Right.

    Paige C. Clark 13:51
    Yeah. And I think that I think you hit on something to have, like, you know, going, going to where your strengths are. If you do feel like you’re, you’re kind of limited for bandwidth because one thing that I do is like I volunteer in my church is like a production crew, but I monitor their social media live streams. But I do social media for work. So for me, it’s like not a huge like leap to take that next step. And just like, hey, like, Yeah, sure. I’ll sit, you know, on I’ll watch some streams for a few hours, a couple of weekends a month, and that will be the

    Tanya Tenica 14:30
    feel how to do you this is the key? Do you feel like you’ve fulfilled something for God, and you’re excited to do it? Because you’re like, it’s like an extension. You really already love what you do. Yeah. And then it’s just like, God, I’m doing it for the kingdom, and you feel refreshed. It’s not like, right, you just want to like, yeah, you’re not because yeah, you’re pulled every which way and guilted into that, not trying to speak badly. Right. But I think that if we are right, If we could stay in this place that’s going to stay, God is always going to rejuvenate. And Phil, and yeah, he’s going to stretch us, and things will be uncomfortable. And we’ll go into those places that are a little bit uncomfy. But you’ll have the grace for it. That’s how you know; even if you don’t want to do it, you’ll be graced for it. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 15:17
    Yeah, for sure. And I think, I think one other thing that that you hit on, and I’m curious because I think he’s looking into like the Bible, you see this kind of theme reflected. And I’m, like, curious if it’s going to come out in my conversations because so far with the women, I haven’t talked to any men yet on this podcast, but with the women, they just say, Yeah, I incorporate God into my life every day. And I don’t have to, you know, set aside a specific time and as, as I work through which, like, is a theme in the Bible, where you see the women just kind of going about their day and encountering Jesus, where the men, they always have to retreat. And so I’m really curious when you’re like, oh, yeah, I just go to the gym, and I and I just pray to God, I’m like, Yes, like, absolutely. But I’m curious to see, like, in future conversations with the men if, like, they’re like, No, I have to lock myself away to, like, be able to spend that time with God.

    Tanya Tenica 16:16
    Well, you see that this is, I think, this is also the beauty of how God made men and women. Yeah. And women because we are responsible in that home. And we have a little bit we have, you know, you’re really, let’s just leave a look at the Proverbs 31 woman because she’s an entrepreneur, right? And so she, you know, she, you can tell she cooks, she cleans, she made her husband’s name great. And she, you know, sold her kid’s clothes and all that. And it was seasonal. So ladies, don’t go straight to do all that at one time. But, you know, then you look at it. And the men, yes, they always went away because they’re very focused, they have to be very focused, they have to pull distractions. Women can have a lot of different distractions naturally around. And I wouldn’t say it’s multitasking, but we can have little things around us. And we can zone things out. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think it just really just attributed to how God speaks differently to men and women and how we are created. Yeah. Which is, which is actually, you know, it’s it is it’s great. Because it doesn’t mean that I don’t need to retreat either to go away. Yeah. It just means that you know, I’ve learned to adapt.

    Paige C. Clark 17:29
    Yeah, yeah. And I find myself if I want a lot of depth and insight and wisdom, I do have to retreat because I’m a little bit like shiny object syndrome. But my every day, everyday encounter and relationship with God does look like incorporating him into them. Like I work out to like worship music, like straight-up worship music, my sister works out to Christmas music like that’s for, and I wish out workouts. Right. And I work out to worship music. And so I think I think it’s kind of interesting to see, like, just the different facets that that it does show up for men and women.

    Tanya Tenica 18:14
    Just do what works for you. And, like, I’ll be really honest, I’m not; I like to expose you to new things, but I don’t want; I would rather you find your own thing. Yeah. You know, what works for you.

    Paige C. Clark 18:29
    Yeah, well, and if something doesn’t work for someone, they’re not going to keep up with it. Right? Like, that’s where we’re talking about working out. That’s diet mentality. One-on-one, if you don’t like something and it’s not working for you, you’re less likely to keep up with it than something that you do like and something that fits into your lifestyle and your workflow and all that good stuff.

    Tanya Tenica 18:52
    Unless, and I’ve seen this happen, where you’re this like people pleaser, Oh, you are trying to fit into this cookie cutter, or you know that this is the road to success. And so you just want to make sure that you follow that thing. And so it’s like, you know that this is what needs to be done. That’s why I tell her I’m like, Okay, if I give you like these different steps, still do them, but modify them to see what works for you. Right? If your time is in the evening, okay, fine. I’m not gonna like shooting you because of it. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it’s like, you know, like, I know, some, like, want to be a part of that 5am club and, and, and be able to grow in that area. And I’m like, Okay, that’s great. But that doesn’t mean waking up. 5am your first day. That means set your alarm clock to 10 minutes, a little earlier, right? Every three, four days, and then eventually in the next three months, you’re gonna get there. It’s like,

    Paige C. Clark 19:45
    right, it’s a given. Yeah, it’s like do what works for you, like yeah, I also think too, and this is like completely a little bit of a side topic. But I think that when you’re saying like, Oh, when when I work out and when I who, when I, you know, just go on walks with God. I just keep thinking like, you know, that we were driven in a very like image-based society, and like how people perceive us and how we’re perceived, I think of like social media just because that’s what I do all day of like, what if people were just like, I’m like, bent over, like heaving at the gym dripping in sweat. And I’m like, worshipping God, like, hashtag bless, like, what was the experience versus like, I’m injured and like, the lights are dim, and my hands are raised. Like, what if it looks like me dying on the gym floor and set up like in a church?

    Tanya Tenica 20:43
    I look. I like it. I like the

    Paige C. Clark 20:46
    idea. I like the idea. It should definitely be a thing. Yeah, I

    Tanya Tenica 20:50
    mean, honestly, I’ve had those moments. I’ve had those moments. Yeah, cuz I haven’t seen this lake right behind where this pond is right behind. And I’ve had those moments where I just sat there. And I was about to go for a speaking engagement. And so I always take about 24 hours to 48 hours before the engagement and then after the engagement to completely, like, draw away. And I literally was, like, snot dripping. You know, those ones that come up? I mean, the whole gamut. Okay, I was not cute. And, um, and I’m outside on the park bench, you know, outside, but I couldn’t control what that looked like. And the Lord hit me. It’s not like, Hey, can you come back later? Because I don’t want to, you know, not look cute. While I’m outside. Like, it’s right. You know, I think when it really looked, when it really came down to it, and God showed me the walk is going to just be between him and me, people are going to come and go, there’s going to be people you think you’re going to be in your life forever. And they were in their first season. I stopped caring about what that looked like. And just, if anything was left behind, it would be just the pure genuineness of who I am. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 22:12
    I love that. I love that. So you work with ministry leaders, but is there anything that you see is what, like, I mean, I’m curious of like your clients, but also yourself of like, what what are some of the biggest struggles that you see when it comes to practicing faith and like everyday life?

    Tanya Tenica 22:35
    Um, um, so I work with. Yes, I work with ministry leaders and entrepreneurs the same. I’m going to say incorporating God. And I know this sounds crazy, because I’m just like, Dude, you’re a minister like Hello. We’ve been taught. I think a lot of times in church, we’ve been spoken at. And we haven’t actually been shown how to activate and apply these principles into our lives and what this actually looks like. And so you’ll see, and I say, ministry leaders and entrepreneurs as the same because you still have bills to pay, okay, you still have to market, you still have to, you know, you’re still hiring people, you’re still this is what we’re looking at. And they don’t know how to incorporate them. They’re taking principles that they learned. But it’s like, That’s not biblical. That’s a Babylonian system. I love, like, why are you doing that? Why are you marketing this way? Why are you? Why do your sales look like this? Why does this look like that? You know, and they’ve really just copied. They’re like, who they are. But they’ve copied false systems that are not going to work. They’re not either biblical; they’re manipulative. So that’s been big, they don’t operate. It’s like, there’s no partnership with God. The witch then now breeds into every believer who feels like they’re going to run a business feels like they need to have to speak to believers. And I’m like, yeah, no, that’s not the case. You can still have; I just started teaching believers four years ago, okay, four years ago. All the other years out of the 20 I was teaching nonbelievers, now you would see believers be like, um, what you’re saying sounds like this scripture. I’m like, and lo and behold, it is, you know, yeah. And so they would see that the, like, I would describe marketing like, Okay, here’s your out your ad or your inner and, you know, like that holy place. And they had no idea that I was equipped, you know, right, right. There are foundational things. So a lot of them are distracted by thinking that when they build a business, they have to build it, and they’re not going to glorify God if they’re covert. Mm. They feel like they have to be over. And I’m like, No, sometimes God wants you to penetrate some spheres of influence now. So I really have to say the biggest issue that I see is being able to incorporate God into your business and the biblical principles. When I say incorporate God, I mean partnering with him, asking him if this is the direction, and not getting caught up? And when you get a coach, a lot of times, we’re like, yeah, I just got this coach. I’m like, Yeah, but they’re mastering Facebook, and you’re called to Instagram; what is this going to do for you? Right? Right, or like, you get an evangelistic coach, and then it’s just like, and you’re really like, apostolic builder, and it’s like, it’s not helping you at all because they don’t understand you. Yeah. Um, so yeah, that’s what I would have to say. Like, yeah, there’s not a lot of understanding in that.

    Paige C. Clark 25:52
    Yeah. And I think too, like, I look at some of like, the businesses who we now know, are, you know, Jesus-loving businesses, such as, like, Hobby Lobby and Chick fil A, right like to have like, the big ones and, and they don’t sell Christianity. Right. Like, like, their ministry is not to be over in that way. But it’s things like having a really good workforce at Chick-fil-A, they’re, they’re known for their kindness. They’re closed on Sunday to respect, you know, employees, either, you know, either way, you want to look at it, they respect employees’ time off, or they’re respecting the Sabbath. But, but it doesn’t have to be, you know, we’re not selling Jesus isn’t carved into the chicken sandwiches like,

    Tanya Tenica 26:48
    yeah, like, I think that when people say, hey, you know what, I have a Christian business. I’m like, what, what is that? Like, what is a Christian business? You have a Christian owner who reflects Christianity, or the right will ever be within, but there is not a Christian business? That doesn’t make sense. Yeah, a business cannot be Christian, and Christian is a physical being like it’s a, you know, so when we’re looking at that aspect, and I think that’s, that’s really this disconnect here. Yeah. And then, you know, you have those that are so used to the ministry aspect, where everything has to be free, right? Everything has to be this, and then all of a sudden, now, I’m prostituting God because I’m charging for consultation or this or that. I’m not charging you for prayer. I’m not charging you for prophetic words. I’m not charging you for that. I’m charging you for your wisdom and understanding. It just so happens that in my consultations, I’m gonna give you some prophetic words. Okay, just so happens. Gonna happen, and I’m going to,

    Paige C. Clark 27:48
    yeah, also, this is, this is another, like, out there Christian company that, like, people don’t really realize in and out if you’re a West coaster. They’re so right. Perfect. You wouldn’t think of it, but you flip the little flip fry container on the bottom, and there are Bible verses; you look underneath the cup, and there are Bible verses.

    Tanya Tenica 28:12
    get out; I never heard you.

    Paige C. Clark 28:16
    Yeah, they are on the bags,

    Tanya Tenica 28:18
    so that it’s holy, we’re not going to gain weight, we can go to

    Paige C. Clark 28:22
    doesn’t count those. Those are, are only calories.

    Tanya Tenica 28:26
    There’s a holy gallery folk are a holy cow, oh, my gosh, I did not know that I have that.

    Paige C. Clark 28:31
    So it’s, it’s those little touches that can show up. And, you know, demonstrate faith where you don’t have to be, you know, selling prayer, for

    Tanya Tenica 28:42
    example. Now I’m gonna go like, into, in and out, and I’m going to be looking for all.

    Paige C. Clark 28:47
    these. So if anyone’s listening to this, and they’re on, like, the West Coast and have access to in and out, this is your justification for going get in and out and go prove mine, my asportation True. I love it. So I want to circle back on one thing that you said of like, you know, sales and marketing practices, specifically, because I feel like that those are mostly the most public or like forward-facing practices that can be manipulative, and that can be kind of unethical and unbiblical. If we have listeners listening to this, and they’re like, well, two parts of that question one, how do I know that I’m involved in, you know, practices that might be, you know, less than savory? And also, like, what can I do about it? Like, I just work for a company, and this is how they told me taught me to sell. What can I do about that?

    Tanya Tenica 29:47
    Yeah, so you’re gonna want to test every Spirit, right? And we look at it from that perspective. So let’s just say I’m giving you this. I’m selling you This product. And in the end, how do you feel? You know that you feel some kind of way when you’re not only giving and selling the product, but then you’re making your people feel a certain way too. So when you’re looking at it, like fear-based marketing, right, that manipulation, the gate is closing this, and then you look back three days later, and the price never went up. They lied. Okay, and then you know that the door did not close. And then all of a sudden, you know, afterward, it’s like, you know, a week into the program. Oh, they reopened the gate for their last people. I’m like, Dude, that is so manipulative, right? Yeah. But manipulation. That’s a form of witchcraft. And so this is a worldly system. But if God is one, it’s by the goodness of God that people get caught on to repentance, that God is the foundation of your business. If he is, you’re operating in love. Foundation. Yeah. So my marketing is going to be different. It’s not going to be all this fear base that’s going to make you actually activate a spirit of fear or pass on a spirit of fear, any of that, right? It’s actually going to make you feel hopeful. It’s going to make you feel amazing. It’s going to make you feel connected, it’s going to make you feel like, oh, my gosh, familiar, like, Okay, this is good. Right? So we’re talking about all of the positive things. Right? So it’s not like, oh, my gosh, are you constantly stuck in this and constantly can’t get out of this? That’s all fear-based. That’s all drawn off of the Woe is Me. victim mentality. Think about it, guys. Yeah. Right. I mean, it’s all victim; you’re teaching and confirming and affirming a victim mentality. Right. But if you’re like, you know, get excited to spend time with your family, go on the trips that you want to be able to go on, learn how to be more productive, and get your message to the four corners of the earth. Now that’s exciting to me. Because now you’re I can see that you’re going to come with me and collaborate and push things forward. Right?

    Paige C. Clark 32:13
    Yeah. Yeah. And I think I think one thing that is kind of, maybe not hit on as much in the corporate world is like providing a good or service to actually better your customer or your client, and not just create, like, a line item or like, like, check, I hit my sales numbers for the week, but like, actually wanting to like to provide them some relief. And I think that starts with producing a product or a service that is actually helping people.

    Tanya Tenica 32:54
    I can agree with that. And I think it also has individuals that so you have to be convicted, buy that product, like oh my gosh, it’s a great product. And you know, hopefully, use it because that’s kind of weird if you’re selling something you’re not using. But I think the other thing is to make sure you have the right people there. So if you look at the evangelistic model, whether they’re commissioned as an evangelist, or they have that edge, I call it, they want, they’re good at sales, they’re good at connecting, they’re good at drawing people in, they’re good at the building have enough relationship to be trusted enough to then resource them. Yeah. But a lot of times, you’ll find those that operate in different functions, right? They might be more creative, a builder, which is a reference to an apostle or a prophet, more detail-oriented, like a teacher, so you’ll have these different things, right. And we’ve like forced them to learn sales. So they’re, like, grueling, and instead of helping them understand sales, in there, the way that will help them right, I adapted into their natural speech, I realized when I would sell it would be in my live streams, I could close like 10k 15k in a live stream. And I knew that when it was if it was a live event or lived in general like that, it was my anointing that everything happened. So for me to do these ones on one call with everybody to try to do closing would be grueling. Yeah, it wasn’t at my highest point of activation. But I think it also matters. Knowing how you operate, how God created you to function, and being okay with that. It’s absolutely beautiful, and you have a place.

    Paige C. Clark 34:53
    Yeah, man. I think that that last part that you said of, like, operating like within yourself and like within your capabilities, I feel like we try to force ourselves to be like one trick or an all trick pony, where it’s like we can do what is the masked? Master of None. What’s the first part of that?

    Tanya Tenica 35:16
    The All Trades master of none.

    Paige C. Clark 35:18
    There you go, jack of all trades, Master of None in our culture, because just because of everything that is going on, and really like we can, I love to reference this quote because I feel like it not only like spiritually, but like, culturally, it’s like really appropriate and fitting, but it’s just, you can’t be anything you want to be. You can only be more of what you already are.

    Tanya Tenica 35:43
    I do, like, okay, so I love this quote. And I love what you just said. Yeah, I like that. Can I share my part? Yes,

    Paige C. Clark 35:52
    absolutely. Push back on it.

    Tanya Tenica 35:54
    Yes, this quote jacked me up for years. Because when you speak to a creative, remember, you would say that to a Proverbs 31 woman, and you read that scripture, and you’d be like that she’s a jack of all trades, she needs to just master one thing. Here’s the key. We try to master everything all at the same time. Yeah. So I remember my mentor, this is actually how I got in, my mentor said to me, you’re a jack of all trades and a master of none. Do you know that that shook me? And I actually closed off the areas of that God; I would start, I would finish, I wouldn’t finish, I would self-sabotage. It wrecked me. Until one day, I went to go teach that. And I had no conviction on it. It was just; it was so detrimental to my growth. And he said, Can you go read that again? And um, I literally, like, heard it. I was like, I’m gonna go, Okay, let me go look at the script, this phrase again, yeah, the actual phrase was a jack of all trades. And a Master of None is oftentimes better than a Master of One. And what that showed me was that there are some individuals that are going to master different things in their life. And because I mastered different things in different parts of my journey, I am able to be the most versatile midwife to entrepreneurs and ministry leaders because I have been around the block in many areas, and I’m able to see, and it actually makes me a better builder. Yeah. But I love what you’re saying. Because there’s, there’s that part too, yeah. Where, you know, just stay within your zone of that zone of genius. But you can explore other areas to see if you can bring an additional skill set or elevate that or bring a different mastery. But don’t dive so deep into something that the minute that you feel that it’s stressful and it’s not what it is that we can just continue on.

    Paige C. Clark 38:08
    Yeah. And I’ll give you an example of, like, very recently, where I saw that in my life, like, I love to cook. I am, I am proud to be a millennial who can cook really well. Because we have a really bad rap for just going to get takeout all the time. I love to cook, and I love to be in the kitchen. And I’m, you know, on my own health journey. And it just got to the point where cooking my healthy meals every week was so draining. So like, like, emotionally like, I was just like, no, like, I’d rather not eat than go in the kitchen and cook.

    Tanya Tenica 38:48
    And really, so you went from loving cooking to then. Yeah. And it

    Paige C. Clark 38:53
    like took away this huge piece of joy. And I was really wrestling with it one day, and I was talking with my husband. He’s like, Well, like, can’t you like, pay someone to do that? And I was like, Yeah, but like, I can do it. Like I can cook. Like why would I go pay someone to like to make me some grilled chicken when I can do it. And he’s like because it’s stressing you out. And it’s like taking away this joy you had in your life. And that was like a really big point of, like, just because I can do something doesn’t mean that I am meant to do it. And that man there’s so like,

    Tanya Tenica 39:29
    they’re like, well, but you know what, in your brain, it’s so interesting because, like, it’s like, what happened? Yeah, what happened? It could be like, you know, this, this one lady I had five years ago and a similar situation. And she was just like, she said the first thing she did with the money that she had, which changed my life. Instead of putting it into marketing advertising, whatever. You put it into a chef that would make her five meals a week. And it was they did all the vegan that like they did for Whole Health thing and allows you to do is pop it in the oven, they throw that for her. And in that time, that hour and a half, two hours, five hours of grocery shopping prep and roll that out of the week. She spent with her sons. Yeah. And it was common sense for her. And it was like, Well, that was not common sense. Do you want to know why? Because a wife cooks and she cleans, and she doesn’t ask, and she does that. Right? Are you gonna eat? Okay, whether I go get it delivered or whether or not I will have big family dinners for Sunday, you can eat all of my cooking. But yeah. And love how your husband said that? Yeah, he

    Paige C. Clark 40:42
    was just like, like, what? Like, he’s so pragmatic. He’s, like, the pragmatic soul to my heart. But it was just like, why wouldn’t you like it if this is stressing you out? Like, this is something, and I was like, but I can’t do it. And like by me, you know, in my head by me like accepting like someone else cooking for me. That was me admitting that, like, that was my weakness and that, like, I couldn’t do it. But I was like, No, it’s not that it’s that. This is something that is outside of my zone of, like, where my focus is right now. And guess what? Now I’m cooking more than ever new foods that I’ve never tried and that are delicious. So now I have lunches taken care of for the week because I work from home. My lunches are taken care of, and I have the energy at the end of the day to like go make some like pork steamed Bao buns. And guess what? They’re delicious.

    Tanya Tenica 41:39
    That’s great. So that’s what I’m saying. Like, you were like, Okay, it’s not fun for me; can I do it? But I want it to be fun again. So what can I do? Well, when you went and had some hired somebody to do the dinners, or whatever, you know, actually released you back to having fun.

    Paige C. Clark 41:57
    Yeah. And I feel like with entrepreneurs and people who are working, they like the kind of get, they kind of get stuck in this mentality of like, but I can do it. Like, that’s not where my zone of genius is; that’s something I said was used a lot in my old job. Like, where’s your zone of genius? Like, where? Where is it? There’s a book called The. I haven’t read it yet. But the premise is like your blue flame of like, where’s the hottest part of like on a matchstick, the blue flame, the part in the very middle, where it’s the hottest, where’s your blue flame? And that’s what I always think of, like, okay, this isn’t in my blue flame; I need to go do something else.

    Tanya Tenica 42:40
    And be totally okay with it. Yeah. But that’s where we have to relinquish all of the status quo. And other things, what works for you, and your family is not going to work for others, but your husband is still the head of your home. You know, it’s kind of like, let’s, you know, grow with this. Yes.

    Paige C. Clark 42:58
    And, and also, like, one thing that was like, a really big mantra for me in the past few years is like, two things can be true at once. Like, I can be a really good cook, and I can also outsource my meals, like, those things are true. And you know,

    Tanya Tenica 43:15
    that stewardship. Yeah, that’s showing that you are mature enough to have to just like your stewardship. Like, I remember when I would get individually come and clean my home. And, you know, I have, like, high fans and all that stuff. And it’s just like, well, you know, I’m a woman; I’m supposed to be doing that. That’s my duty. That’s, like, you know, and I was like, no, no, no, no, no, that’s, it’s taking it started taking away from my femininity, because I started like, I was stressed all the time. And it’s just like, No, I could be there. While somebody’s playing. I could go practice basketball with my son, I could do, you know, I could be more present. That’s actually just stewardship. Yeah. I feel guilty because we’re stewarding our family and what works.

    Paige C. Clark 44:01
    Yeah. And also, like, I think that when we acknowledged those things, like we’re not getting them for free, right, like, we’re also paying and providing business service for all the other businesses that are out there that we’re utilizing.

    Tanya Tenica 44:21
    Yeah, it’s like, it’s almost like we were okay. God’s giving us this wealth transference and all that, and then now we feel guilty. Yeah, because we’re looking, we’re using these things to simplify our life so we could multiply our presence and be more Omni, you know, Omni pro, like they call it now Omni marketing, where you’re kind of like on all the like, you’re a little bit everywhere all at once and all that and it’s like the channel Yeah, yeah, it’s like that Omni and I are just like, you know, I look at it as I could be more if I have some if I hire certain individuals to do certain things, not that I’m not capable, but I have more ability now to free myself. Earl, Stewart, my health, my time, and my life are way better. And I can actually show up even more than that 100%. For not only my family but for my students are those that, you know, are connected to me?

    Paige C. Clark 45:14
    Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I think that’s like, one of the things that I’ve really been like, noodling on and having these conversations for this, for this podcast, and, like, God is giving us the opportunity in our work life, so that so like, our purpose might not be within our work life, our purpose might be what our work life allows us to have outside of our work life, that might be the blessing that might be the ministry that might be the purpose is outside of what we do every day, not to say that he can’t work in what we do every day. But that might not be the sole inclination of why we’re doing what we’re doing. Yeah,

    Tanya Tenica 45:59
    I mean, he, he might be saying, Hey, you’re doing your work, the job you’re doing, whichever. And, you know, I want you to take that, and I want you to bless this organization. Right? You know, there are all different types of things, you know, we have domestic violence and foster care and human trafficking, we have all these things, it could be a part of something else, sometimes people want it like they it’s like, it’s really weird. It’s like, I think the church has, has done this where they’ve put people in fear. So they feel like they have to build everything they can’t work for, man, they can’t do this, they can’t do that. And it’s because they’re like, you’re going to miss God, you’re going to miss the move of God, if you don’t do this, right now, if you don’t build this right now, and it’s like, and this big way, this weird thing of just because you have a conviction. Like, why I don’t need to build it. Like I’m with human trafficking. And instead of me going to build this organization and trying to do all this and build a nonprofit, I just went sat on a board of human trafficking and decided to be able to speak and maybe invite them to do an open seminar where in my building at the time that you know, they can come and speak and do teaching and invited everybody and then shared like, where, you know, where some of the money that people pay me in business for consulting or however where that goes. Yeah, you know, it was just something simple like that. I didn’t need to go build. Yeah, but guess what, if I couldn’t sit on that board and do those different things and volunteer and make an impact in the community or do anything if I didn’t hire some, if I didn’t, like, go get HelloFresh to cook? Or, you know, like, have, you know, my house cleaned or whatever? So yeah, I totally agree. Like, it’s, Yeah, everybody boxes everything in to be

    Paige C. Clark 47:47
    like this end all? Yeah. And I think too, like, at the end of the day, like, it’s, it’s what is, like, God’s gonna make his plan happen whether or not we want to be a part of that, like, like, it’s an honor and a pleasure and that we get to be a part of it. But also, if we miss the bus, there’s going to be another one coming. Like, I think one thing that I found myself getting stuck in, especially at the beginning of my college years, is that I have to know what God has planned for me. And while he might, and for some, he might have specific plans of like, this is where you’re supposed to be. I’m like, I’m limited God, if if I say like, if I take the job, or I don’t take the job if I take the job, is that really God’s will? Well, guess what? He’s gonna work through me whether or not I take the job. If I take the job, he’s gonna set a plan there. If I don’t take the job, then he’s gonna set a plan there. Either way, he is sovereign over that.

    Tanya Tenica 48:51
    I just look at it as God will course correct you. Yeah. If you’re at the job and like six months, and you’re like, oh, man, I’m supposed to be doing this. All right. Well, God, show me how I’m supposed to release and let go, and I’m good. Yeah. Right. And do it that way. It’s, I think that we just get to this point where we don’t realize that we are in so much control, so much control, that we don’t let things flow and then know and trust that God will course correct us. Yeah. Like, like, there are some times that you might have felt like you miss the bus, right? But guess what? God knew that you were going to be going through a traumatic exposure or you were going to make a decision or whatever. So did you technically miss the bus? I don’t know. Because I bet you if you look back, you see a little bus stop sign, and the bus ain’t even go by because why would he send the bus if he knew? He knows? Yeah, he knows that you’re not now, you know what I mean? Like it, nobody’s going to do like what we talked about how many times when you told me before, about the podcast about nobody really talking about some of the stuff. Yeah, many times have you seen it? And here’s the bus. Right? You’re thinking the bus is passing, the bus is passing. Yeah. And in all reality? No, it didn’t pass. He was like, I already know, on February 22, 2003, she’s gonna be talking to Tanya and yes, other station, and this is what she’s going to be doing, even working full time and all of that. Like, the bus is yours, girl, I, you know, I’m like, Hey, nobody’s taking nobody’s riding my bus away. Right? So there is not like, if you look at that, there can only be one health coach in the world. Yeah, one. Like, you know, one activator in the world, one social media person in the world. Nobody’s gonna have your beautiful brain and the way that you see it.

    Paige C. Clark 50:50
    Yeah. And also, there’s a lot of people, I always get myself caught up of like, okay, like, Are people really gonna buy my things? And then I, like, look at how many houses are in a specific neighborhood like, okay, there’s a community going in, that’s going to have 5000 houses, how many people are living in those five that probably 10,000, maybe 15,000 people will live in those 5000 houses. Exactly. And that’s a lot of people.

    Tanya Tenica 51:16
    But I also look at it as if I could listen to the same podcast, right? Somebody can do the same thing that you’re doing, St. Tim talk about, whatever. But guess what, because you told me about how you released cooking, and that you can still do it and all that. You helped me out in such a way that changed me. It was positive. It wasn’t fear-based, but it just did something to me. And then it’s a bonus that, you know, you got your curly hair. And you know, and I love it, you know? So it’s like, Guess what, now? I just want to work with you. Yeah, I’m almost like, okay, like, what else do you have, girl-like? What can I get something from you? I’ve had people purchase things from me and connect with me because I have a pit bull. All right, okay. Because, right, because I love my pinball. And you know, and they’re just like, yeah. Because they feel like they’re misunderstood. And all that. I mean, it’s the weirdest thing. Okay. Well, well, but yeah, and I will, I will list. I’ll have other podcasts I can listen to, but I’m gonna listen to you beat your heart. It can’t be duplicated.

    Paige C. Clark 52:28
    Thank you so much, Tanya. Oh, this conversation has been so good. So as I like to wrap up every single episode. As you said, you’re an activator. So let’s go activate some people. What can people do this week? To help them implement a faith-building discipline or practice into their life?

    Tanya Tenica 52:50
    I’m gonna say start small. What is practical that you can stick with? And I want you to time-block it. Right? So if it’s not in your schedule, you probably won’t do it. Yeah. What do you need to do? There were times that I had to literally put it in my phone; I had to put an alarm on my phone. I put a sticky pad saying a quote or something on my bathroom mirror and on the side of my watch, and we’ll call it my nightstand. I had three or four alarms throughout the day when I was trying to remember to keep conscious that God is present and that he can be in everything that I do. So do what works for you. What is going to work for you? What time of day is that going to work for you? Take one thing and just play around with it. But here’s the key time block give yourself the block of time. If you look at my schedule, my schedule is completely time blocked. Right now, that means a lot, and I’ll share with you a lot each and every time block. There’s not one thing that you can go on here. You know what I’m doing when I’m doing it means that I completely shut off Media; I’m not going to miss anything. And I literally focus unconditionally on that.

    Paige C. Clark 54:15
    That reminds me a lot of Dave Ramsey’s every dollar so like account, every dollar in your budget, whether or not you like Dave Ramsey, but account for every minute, and his app is cool. I know. I like it too. But some people are, like, do not like Dave Ramsey. So I wanted to add that caveat, but like, added like blocking in accounting for every hour of your day to make room for God and even if it’s setting your alarm five minutes earlier, a couple days a week, so you can wake up at 5am.

    Tanya Tenica 54:50
    Yeah, it’s, it’s literally saying, okay, this hasn’t worked for me before. What can work for me at this time, right? I laugh at God because I’m like, I wish I could be a part of the 5am club because he thinks it’s funny. I’m up at four. And I’m like, can I be a part of the 5am. Um, but you know, there was a season that I was not feeling well and certain stuff, and I had to not kick myself because I had to wake up at 630 or seven. Now, I will be up at four. And then I would be like Tanya, you’re not feeling well. Stop being controlled and feel bad. Just rest. So then I started getting certain things done in the evening, time to prepare for the morning to make myself. So when your time is blocked, just make sure that you’re flexible. If you are like, Hey, I’m going to do this project, this project in this project, and it doesn’t work out. Because you’re feeling off, you didn’t drink enough water, or something happened to where you just need to be with God. And you’re, you’re moving too much, be okay with it. Yeah, because what I would do is, whenever I would go back to look at my schedule, I would look back at the prior weeks. And I would actually see that there were some really big areas that I could actually say, Oh, I know what was going on, and why I didn’t finish what I was supposed to finish. Yeah. And I could see when I went to bed when I did it. It was it’s so interesting to be able to do that. But like I said, just make it simple. Pick one thing, just put it in your schedule, and then put it everywhere you can see it. I mean, put why you’re doing it, like write a scripture, put all the wonderful benefits, how you’re excited about something, whatever that looks like, plastered everywhere, on your bed, on your mirror, change your phone picture, I don’t care what you got to do, but literally live it and breathe it. Yeah. Even if it’s just drinking more water cares.

    Unknown Speaker 56:49
    I love it.

    Paige C. Clark 56:50
    Thank you so much. Tanya, what a great takeaway. I will probably be setting my alarm back five minutes to get my butt out of bed a little bit earlier. So

    Tanya Tenica 57:02
    I know and then ask God, what what what is he? What does he want you to do with the time?

    Paige C. Clark 57:06
    Yeah, yeah, for sure. Anytime I wake up earlier, I’m like, Okay, God woke me up for some reason. Like, let’s go spend some time with him and figure it out. So where can people find you and your brilliance?

    Tanya Tenica 57:18
    You can just go to Tong to nika.com makes it really easy. You’ll be able to find all the stuff that I’m doing.

    Paige C. Clark 57:26
    Awesome. Awesome. Tanya, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us today.

  • 9 to 5 Faith Podcast: Episode 10

    This is a transcript from episode 10 of the 9 to 5 Faith Podcast with Paige C. Clark.

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    Start of Podcast

    Paige C. Clark 0:36
    It’s Paige C. Clark, and you’re listening to the nine to five faith podcast. Hi, everyone. I’m so excited to have you today. And I’m even more excited to have my friend Cami on with me. How’s it going Cami?

    Cami Aufdermauer 0:49
    So good. How are you?

    Paige C. Clark 0:51
    Good. It’s also a podcast like so like waving might not be like we are videoing it as well. It’ll be on YouTube. So if you want to see Cami wave, just go over to the YouTube. How are you doing today?

    Cami Aufdermauer 1:07
    I’m so good. It’s just good to meet you and get to chat with you. So I’m excited.

    Paige C. Clark 1:11
    Yes, me too. So tell me a little bit about you and what you do. And I call this like the why I should care kind of thing whenever I do presentations. I said like, this is me now. Why should you care that I’m talking to you. So I

    Cami Aufdermauer 1:27
    love Well, cuz I’m awesome.

    Paige C. Clark 1:28
    No, are awesome.

    Cami Aufdermauer 1:32
    Well, my name is Cami. It’s and my last name is Aufdermauer. So it’s super hard to spell. There’s actually a song that can help. But we won’t go over that right now. I am a mom, I am a wife. I have two teenage daughters. So really right there. You should, you should want to hear what I have to say. Because I’m surviving. Let’s just say, I’m not just surviving parenting teenagers. I feel like I’m thriving in it. But they are 12 and 13. So check on me in two years. Yeah. But I, you know, I have lived I live in Oregon. So if you’ve ever heard of Tilamook cheese, I live until a mug which is the cheese capital of, well, I think the world but maybe Oregon. And my family has lived until a mug for over 100 years. So I was as born and raised in this community as you get. And I have just, I’ve grown up really loving my roots here. And yeah, I just I love I love I love getting to raise my girls here in this town too.

    Paige C. Clark 2:38
    That’s awesome. And 100 years, that’s crazy. And I think we’re gonna have some really angry Wisconsin errs listening. Don’t care, I won’t tell them that I have Tillamook cheese in my fridge right now. Thank you, there we go. We want to tell them I really do. So tell us a little bit about like your nine to five and what that looks like for you.

    Cami Aufdermauer 3:02
    Oh, man, well, I have to back up six months, because my nine to five now based on on six months ago is totally different. So for seven and a half years, my nine to five was that I was the executive director of Habitat for Humanity. So I’m sure you’ve heard of habitat most people have. So I ran that organization and our community and truly felt like that was the job for me. Like I was like, This is what God created me for, you know, really enjoyed the work we got to do with family isn’t just everything that I got to do in running in that organization. So that you know, that was your typical nine to five in the office every day even through COVID we had I think like three weeks where I worked from home. Other than that in the office, you know, balancing the life and what that looks like. Well, my town so I only had to drive a couple of minutes to work right? But really got pretty radically rocked. When I read a book called Dream I dare you about probably about seven months ago, I read this book, and it really opened my eyes to okay, like I I put myself in this position to really think that this particular nine to five is my forever. Like I’m like, Why would I go anywhere else I’m it’s a Christian organization, I get to do good work for people. You know, this, if I’m going to work anywhere in this community. I don’t see any other job in this community that I would want. And so I started reading this book and God just really started to stir my heart for bigger dreams like outside of my community outside of what I was doing in just Silla monk. And he really started to be like, No, I there’s something more here. And so I was like, Okay, but what is that? What does that even look like? And so, what happened is I got really curious because again, I’m reading this book that’s really rad. Literally like opening my heart. And I’m like, Alright, who is this author? Like, who’s this Julia Gentry? What is this all about? And so I did you know, like in a good researcher, I went and found her on social media and stalked her Facebook page, you know. And so I’m following along, and I’m looking in her feed, and I found out that she was hiring for a super part time, Director of Operations, like 20 hours a week, nothing I can leave my job for, like the salary was not there, all of that. But I was like, I’m supposed to be involved, even if at that point, it meant just being a volunteer, whatever, that look alike, right. And so I reached out to her, and I said, I think I’m supposed to be a part of what you’re doing your books, rockin my world. And long story short, I ended up after a lot of prayer, and a lot of, you know, talks with my husband. I ended up quitting my my nine to five as the executive director, and launching into full time work ministry as the director of operations for Julia Gentry, who wrote the book dream, I dare you. I mean, my family thought I was a little crazy. But it’s so far. So I’ve been working for him now for six months. And it has been completely different for me, because this is my first job ever. Where I work from home. I mean, I didn’t even know that was possible. Like, I know people do that. But I know it was possible for me. Yeah. And that’s been such a such a, such a drastic difference from being in an office.

    Paige C. Clark 6:40
    Yeah, yeah. And how accessible it now is. So cool, because I think before it was, like, only certain special jobs, and certain titles got like the privilege of doing work from home. And now I feel like it’s more like widely kind of applied to the workforce. Right. So that’s awesome. That’s a really killer story.

    Cami Aufdermauer 7:04
    And it’s my favorite,

    Paige C. Clark 7:05
    I’ll have to tell you a story later of some crazy thing that I, you know, crazy opportunities really happened. Just like just like that. So that’s awesome. And and so take me through a little bit of like, what your day looks like from not only from like, a work perspective, but also like, you’re working from home. Now you don’t have to commute but also like you’re not in an office, which makes wearing sweatpants really easy to to what your time with God looks like.

    Cami Aufdermauer 7:39
    I am so glad you’re asking me this now. Because I feel like even last week, it looks so different, like this week, this week, I’m really proud of what it looks like. So maybe, maybe I was just getting prepared for this podcast. But I think what I love and I say this to my kids all the time, as I’m getting ready to walk, I have a little cottage in my backyard. That is my office. So thankfully, there is a little bit of separation from my house. But I always say, all right headed to work. It’s a long commute. So I have fully again, I said I have teenagers. And so we’ve actually because I do believe that I want to be focused when I’m in my office, I’m working on work all those things. So we’ve actually created a color code system for my door. So they know when mom’s little sign is red, you know, unless you’re bleeding or the house is burning down, like don’t come in. So we have different layers of those colors.

    Paige C. Clark 8:32
    No, that’s a really good thing.

    Cami Aufdermauer 8:35
    Yeah, they know if it’s yellow, it’s like, okay, come on, and say hi, but then head on out. If it’s purple. Come on in. It’s a party. Yeah, no, I’m gonna be honest, it’s never purple. But if it were, they would be excited. Yeah. And so I I get out my cottage, I believe very much in creating a workspace that you love aesthetically. So like, you could see, you know, that’s just everything’s very mean like it when you walk into my office, you can feel me there. Like I got a dream on my wall. I’ve got this beautiful lie in here. Because I really want when I walk into my office, I want it to be a place that I enjoy. I also really like a clean space. So that’s important for me, always making sure there’s no piles, making sure things are clean. And then my day starts out here. Thankfully, I get to create my own schedule. Yeah, but I start every single day at 5am. And that’s because I want my morning time. I want my morning time. And so what I’ve done and what my schedule literally looks like right now is I get up at five. Again, this was not last week. So let’s just say it’s been two days, but I get up at five and from five to six my dog and I go for a walk. That way he gets out I get fresh air. I listen to a podcast because I really love personal development. And so I always put in a podcast that’s something that I’m working towards growing in right now I’m helping create a speaker business for Juliet. So I’m listening to all these podcasts about how to create a speaker business. And then from six to seven, I have it on my calendar, like, actually in my phone, but that’s my Jesus time. And so, again, today’s CIO will check on me a couple months to make sure it’s sustainable. But I do believe and calendaring things, and making sure that, hey, if I’m gonna put, I’m gonna put this podcast in my calendar and show up, I’d better be showing up for my Jesus time in the calendar. Yeah. And so my day doesn’t start until after that time, but what I’ve also pre I’m trying to create margin. And so from that seven to eight, that is actually my planning time. So that is me sitting down with my, you know, I’ve got my planners and like my things, that is me sitting down and going, what do I want to accomplish in this day? Because I found that when I do that, I get so much more clear and excited and focused on what it is that I’m doing. And I feel like I have a purpose in my day, rather than just like, Okay, what’s on, you know, what’s on my agenda? What meetings Am I a part of, because meetings are one thing? It’s what fill up all of the things between the meetings that are really where I want to be intentional about my time. Yeah, and that is what a typical day looks like for me this week.

    Paige C. Clark 11:30
    And hopefully, weeks in the future, or weeks

    Cami Aufdermauer 11:33
    in the future. I think that one of the things too, like my Jesus time, right. Yeah, I will be honest, that before this week that Jesus time was lacking. Yeah. And I, there’s a lot of reasons why, but I think it’s because, man, I’ve shared a little bit about like my transition, I’ve been this new job for the last six months. I am so fulfilled in my job. I mean, I know not everybody can say that. But I can, like, I feel like I truly am exactly where God has called me to be. And like, I am so fulfilled, which is great. And that can be a dangerous place to be because I’m so fulfilled in my work, that I actually don’t sometimes feel like I need God to fill me up. Because I’m just so like, like, loving where I am. Yeah. So that has been something that I didn’t really notice that, you know, it actually took, I watched some people around me kind of start to burn out. And it more came from a place of I don’t feel burned out. I don’t want to get there. Right, I want to make sure that I’m doing the things that create a life of margin, so that I am having places to rest. Yes, I can love what I do. But if I’m not going to the sustainer to be sustained, like it’s not sustainable. And so I’m really trying to create, like I want margin in my life, because I believe that God’s revelation is going to come in that margin. And when I put him first like, he’s going to redeem, I mean, even the hour that I’m giving him dedicated time in the day, he’s going to redeem that tenfold by direct revelation. One of the things is that I don’t want to circle the same mountain. I don’t want to keep walking around the same mountain trying to figure out these lessons, right. Like, I don’t want God to speak to my heart. He’s not if I’m not listening, it’s gonna be really hard to hear him.

    Paige C. Clark 13:30
    Yeah. Yeah. And also like, couple things there. One, I am with you on having a clean space if my office is not clean. It’s a little crazy. Now this might seem like a real like nitpicky kind of question, but for the work from homers, they might understand this. Do you do your Jesus time in your office or in your home?

    Cami Aufdermauer 13:55
    That is a really good question. I’d be curious what other people say so I do it in my office. Okay. Yeah, and I could do it in my home. But again, when I do my Jesus time, like everybody’s still sleeping like they’re still out there. For a while, I thought I would have to separate them. And if I didn’t have good boundaries, I might have to Yeah, because I can very easily get excited to get on the day. The one thing I’ve done I will not have my phone next to me during my Jesus time. So I’ll put it on airplane mode. I take my smart my my Apple watch off. Yeah, I don’t want any alerts during the hour. My I don’t know if you know the Enneagram but I’m a seven on the Enneagram dude. Yeah, so I can get very distracted. Yeah, so I have to take off all the distractions and really just be present in that moment. Because work, the excitement of what’s the what’s to work on will catch me and I it’s hard to rein it back in. Yeah,

    Paige C. Clark 14:57
    for sure. I call it the shiny object syndrome

    Cami Aufdermauer 14:59
    or just So are you are you a seven? Two, I’m

    Paige C. Clark 15:01
    a six wing seven. So. But yeah, that it’s funny because I think that, like, back back before COVID, and work from home became like really more broad scale, I feel like that these conversations that I’m having with you and having on the podcast would look completely different than they look now. Because that margin that we have to have when we work from home, like we need boundaries, even in our own home, because we’re always working from there. So for example, my husband, he works for himself, he’s always worked from home, he always has a dedicated office space. But when we first got married, we, we found his work kind of bleeding out into our relationship and our regular life and everything like that. And it was just like, Okay, we need to create a physical boundary. So like, when you’re not working, the office doors are shut. And I’ve had to do kind of the same thing, which is why I was asking of like, in my office, I work in my office, anything else, especially like, my Jesus time, or even my writing as part of my work? I can’t even write in my office. It’s too distracting. I have to go away to do.

    Cami Aufdermauer 16:32
    Yeah, yeah, I think that’s good to just kind of know what works for people or what doesn’t. And I think, I mean, he kind of, I had a little conviction come up, because I would not say that lately. Until this week, I have been very good at having those boundaries. Like when I leave there, because I was just thinking my daughter, she, I was texting on my phone. And she goes, Mom, you don’t always need to message Julia, which is my boss. She’s like, you don’t always need to be on the phone with Julia, because I am on the phone with my boss a lot. We do text a lot. We’re always communication. And thankfully, that time I actually wasn’t talking to Julia. So I was like, well, actually, I’m not talking to her. But it did make me kind of go, oh, you know, like, I gotta make sure that that I, I mean, how often are we calendaring time with our kids or our husband? So like, I think just, and I even made that intention. This week, I told my boss, which she’s used to me working. I mean, I’m in the bathtub editing videos. I’m right. And I can you know, it doesn’t matter. Because I love it so much. I’m always doing it now. And it’s easy to do it. It’s easy, easy, it is hard to not right. It’s a meaning

    Paige C. Clark 17:42
    not that the work is easy, but it is easy, because you like it and it is not burdensome to do well.

    Cami Aufdermauer 17:49
    Exactly. And so the hard thing is stopping. Because it’s again, so fulfilling. So like, where do I want my fulfillment to come from? And will I look back and think even though I’m having fun, and all these great things, will I look back and have missed out on time with my family? You know? Yeah, I just don’t I just believe it’s important for me to always evaluate where I’m where I’m getting my fulfillment from?

    Paige C. Clark 18:17
    Yeah, yeah, for sure. Gosh, there’s so many things, so many different, like, Bunny trails, I want to go down right now. Because you’re saying so many good things, but one of them is, is the reality of being able to work remote means we can’t, we can work from anywhere at any time. And that is not, it is both freeing and binding. Because churro because, like so I work in social media, social media is always happening. Right? Like things when things pop off in the world. They happen on social media, like just saying. And so for me, it’s really easy to justify kind of always being on and always logging on. So like, besides, you know, just being recently convicted of that, or do you have any ways that you try to create better margin around that of like your emails or you know, you talked about Trello, your Trello board?

    Cami Aufdermauer 19:31
    Challenge changed my life. Are we going there? Let me answer your question. Yeah, there’s a whole nother thing.

    Paige C. Clark 19:36
    Oh, that because

    Cami Aufdermauer 19:40
    my husband is so tired of hearing me talk about Trello I’m like, is there a support group for people because I just want to talk to people about Trello

    Paige C. Clark 19:47
    Trello if you’re listening, looking for sponsorships

    Cami Aufdermauer 19:53
    go for real. So I think I mean, if we just go that route, I think one of the things I know What about myself, is that in order for me to thrive, and again, you look at your Enneagram, like, I’m an Enneagram, seven, so can get super distracted, rabbit trails, all those kinds of things. Yeah, so I have to have systems and processes in my life, like I have to, not only do I enjoy them, I enjoy setting up systems, I enjoy running systems I enjoy, I love efficiency. And so I, when I got into this job, again, I come from a company where I’ve created the entire company, you know, like, I create the atmosphere, where I came in to now I have one boss, and I’m the only employee, and she’s been an entrepreneur for years. And so I came in, and I’ll never forget what I said to her, I said, so I’m going to need three days to set us up a system, and I’m going to use Trello, which is an organizational system to basically Task Manager days with your team, right, and she’s like, you’re gonna need how many days to do what, and we always laugh about it. Because what I didn’t know, coming into this job until I was in it was how much I needed structure. And so when I went the first week in the job, and every meeting I’d have with her, I’d come out of the meeting with five pages of notes, none of which were organized, all the action items were mixed in this, this notebook somewhere, I thought I was gonna die. Like I’m just like, I cannot function in this world. And so I had to create those systems for our company. And now we use them every single day, like my Trello board, runs my day. And I’ve been able to bring our other team members now into that world. And now what’s so much more productive, I believe, when you set up systems and processes, it gets you to the place where you create the margin. Yes, the person who showed me how to use Trello, he says, yes, it’s gonna take you time to set this up. But the amount of time that you’re gonna save on the back end is tenfold. And I believe that I’ve seen it in my own life. So by having these kinds of structures and processes in place, it allows me to kind of create space and areas where, you know, areas that I need to create space in.

    Paige C. Clark 22:16
    Yeah. And I think like, I think that some people might feel ashamed that they’re not able to manage certain, I guess I call them temptations, but like checking your email first thing in the morning, or like, you know, scrolling through your Slack messages in the night, or whatever it is, I call them temptations, because they’re taking me, for me, that’s what they are. As, like, people might feel shame around that as a sign of lack of willpower. But really, it is just adding the systems in our life to better be efficient at the things that we really want to be efficient at. Do I really want. Do I need to be efficient at managing my email? No. Like, I don’t, it’s not my, my work email. It’s my personal email. It’s fine. It can hang out. Okay, if I have 20 emails from Wayfair? Let’s see. All right. That doesn’t really matter at the end of the day. But I think there are some people might feel like a lot of shame and in kind of admitting to that but like adding adding timers on to your apps. If you have an iPhone or you an Android or iPhone user,

    Cami Aufdermauer 23:37
    oh, iPhone, and I use it I use all the time. Like if I know I have even a meeting coming up. I always I set my timers all day long. That way, I don’t have to think about those things. The number one thing I can say helps with what you’re just saying for me is my phone does not live in my bedroom at night. Yeah. And it hasn’t for probably a year and that’s been the greatest smallest. I mean, that’s a very small sacrifice. I still have Alexa. So I haven’t alarm you. Oh, Alexa is talking to me now. But But I definitely like that has been a huge game changer for me, because now I’m not distracted. I think sleep is important because I got a lot to do in the day. I want to have energy. And if I’m on there scrolling I will also say remember how this week has been like a good week for me. I will say that I a couple of days ago. I took Facebook because I don’t use other social media. It’s mostly Facebook. I took Facebook off my phone. Yes, I can still get on it on my computer if I want because I’m not going to sit there and scroll. Yeah, that has been pan that’s been free and sometimes to just take that space and say, but I never felt like I could do that. Like in my jobs. I’m like, but I need it for my job. And not you I know you feel me girl. Yeah, like doesn’t need to be on our phone. Could it just be on the Computer. I think those small tweaks have allowed me to say, Okay. And a lot of the time, we’re just bored. So like, if we’re Oh, yeah, you know, like I’m eating because I’m bored. I’m, you know, scrolling Facebook, because I’m bored. It’s a lot of the time, we’re just not, like, we’re just bored. So then really asking myself like, Okay, I’m bored. What else could I do here? To make it so that it’s not just productive? But filling? Yeah, we know those things. Don’t fill us. Like foods not gonna fill me Facebook, social media is not going to fill me. Okay, so what what is it that would fill me with the Lord? getting some fresh air outside? You know, doing something creative? I think we need to get back to creating

    Paige C. Clark 25:47
    math? Oh, gosh, yes, for sure. And what I was saying about the timers, I don’t know if you do this, but on each app, you can set a time limit. So like, if you’re like, I only want to spend 30 minutes a day on any of my social apps, you can set it and it’ll like shut down the app. Like, it’ll ask you to like, Are you sure you want to like when Netflix judges you? And it was like, are you still watching your apps? We’ll be like, Are you sure you want to? And you can do that. And here’s like a fun. I mean, it’s fun for me and my organizational brain. But if you want to how many times like have you opened your phone, just kind of like on autopilot and just like clicked on your social media apps? And like, you’re just like, oh, like, how did I get it? I get in here, right? One thing to do to combat that, that that I really love, is to move your apps around. Whoa, because if you move your apps, if you change where they’re at, you have to actively go looking for them. And it brings together mindfulness because like, you’ll like swipe and like click where your Facebook was, and you’re like, Wait, why am I on the CVS app? Like or like, I don’t want to, like work out why am I in my health app? Like,

    Cami Aufdermauer 27:14
    that’s where you like strategically put the vital app?

    Paige C. Clark 27:17
    Exactly. Anytime I click on this, just open the pipe. There you go. So there’s I mean, there’s definitely things that we can do to like help kind of create that margin. And I will say to, for anyone who’s listening, my my sage advice, I guess, is to set the expectations kind of upfront with your work. If your work is requiring you to use your personal cell phone, negotiate, you know, a cell phone stipend, and if that’s not part of it, then say like, I’m sorry, I will not have email on my phone, I will not have slack on my phone, like, I will not be available, you can call me. But I am not going to have any of these communication things because that’s your own boundary for your own life and your own well being and give an inch, take a mile kind of situation of like, Oh, if it’s just one slack that I’m answering on the weekend, they’re gonna, you’re gonna still get them.

    Cami Aufdermauer 28:18
    And it’s funny because I was I did take my phone in bed last night, not for like the whole night. But just because I was like, oh, I want to do this. And so like I was laying there and doing this, because I specifically told my boss, I’m like, Okay, go like I have yet to get your intentions out there. And I just said, Alright, I’m done with work for like, don’t let me keep working. You know, yeah, to cut this off, because I love it. I love working. And I checked my email, and I responded to an email to her at like, nine 930. And then I emailed her right back, I said, No, I’m not answering emails in my bed at 930. You know, we kind of wouldn’t have to joke with ourselves and be like, but it was so automatic. Yeah, when that email and like, respond, like, what? No, I can’t just wait to respond. What would that mean about me? But those are the questions I have to ask myself like, where am I going? Because I know that I’m in this for the long haul. Like I want to be in ministry doing what I’m doing for years to come. And if I can create healthy boundaries, hate that word, but if I can create helping, what would be another word, healthy habits and rhymes like that? Sounds good. But I can create healthy habits now. I believe that will make this more it is it’s going to make it sustainable for the long haul.

    Paige C. Clark 29:39
    Yeah, yeah, for sure. And like, I think what we undervalue as as Christians, I guess, is the ability to create habit and routine. Like it changes our brain chemistry. There’s a reason why I go to on my phone and I open Facebook every time and there’s a reason why you know you want on when you’re like, bored, you like go to food because it’s like, like on some chemical level, I don’t want to lessen the people who have serious addictions. But the chemical response in our brain is very similar and in smaller amounts to that that has, you know, dopamine, or I want to say serotonin, but that’s what puts you to sleep, but your dopamine and all your other hormones that go on in your brain, that stuff gets released when we see a notification pop up or something. But that can be reverse engineered for our faith. Totally. Totally, yeah.

    Cami Aufdermauer 30:41
    Can we get that app, like, let that happen, you know, true, though. It’s true. And just small changes, like when I say like, when I say my week has totally changed this week. These are not big changes, right? It’s just being more intentional. And I mean, like, this is not a sales pitch. But when I say this book dream, I dare you by Julian Kendrick, remember, that was a little sales pitch. When I say it, this book changed my life. It changed my life. Because not only did it give me a dream, bigger to live for, but it helps me really know how to take captive, my thoughts, and to retrain my brain, which is exactly what you’re saying. Yeah. Because I now know what beliefs like what limiting beliefs have kept me from moving forward in my life. And I now have a conviction that is super strong to put my whole life on, like, and so like, even today, when I was struggling through and like, I was noticing some big feelings. And I’m able to say, like, am I living chosen today, because that’s my conviction that I live a life where I am chosen. And if I know that to be true, I no longer need the world to tell me I’m chosen. I literally live from a place of being chosen. Yeah, there’s so much depth there. And that’s really what her books about is finding that conviction that you can say, at any point, like, am I living chosen? And if the answer is no, that’s always when it’s going to show up for me in, you know, it’s always when my fruit is not the fruit of the Spirit. I mean, that’s, that’s really what it is. Anytime I’m living outside of, like really seeing the fruit. It’s because I’m not living in my conviction. And I just have to check myself.

    Paige C. Clark 32:25
    Yeah, yeah. And like, also, when we are operating in kind of this autopilot, kind of state, I’m actually my own personal plug, I’m writing a book about this. And one of the chapters is on autopilot. And it’s when we’re operating in this kind of just like, I guess, stress response, where we’re just kind of going through the motions, like, where’s the room for the Holy Spirit in that? Right? Because the Holy Spirit, like, like, I think there’s very like, I think, within the Trinity, they all have very different personalities. And I think like, the Holy Spirit is one of like, spontaneity, right? We see him move, like in the moment. And and if, if we’re kind of stuck in this autopilot mode, like how do we respond to the Holy Spirit when he asks us to?

    Cami Aufdermauer 33:17
    I just have this vision. I know I mentioned the INIA Graham a couple of times, because it has been so helpful for me in my life.

    I literally just when you were talking about the Holy Spirit, I was I have that Holy Spirit’s of seven.

    Like I was like, and then I’m like, What would God the Father, what would you? Like? I was like, how fun would that be? To dig a little into that? I think they’re probably every number, obviously. But like, I really got my brain thinking.

    Paige C. Clark 33:46
    That’s really fun. Like, what Myers Briggs is the Trinity.

    Cami Aufdermauer 33:51
    Somebody needs to write that book.

    Paige C. Clark 33:55
    And Mark is struck by lightning. I know.

    Cami Aufdermauer 34:01
    They really, like, you’re gonna have to put the Enneagram test link like, oh, yeah, because it really is been so helpful for me. Yeah. And just understanding the why I do things like the man it’s been, and then I can count that. I mean, that’s, that is why again, we talked about systems and processes. Those literally keep me being able to function because I need them in my life. Anytime I meet another fellow seven, and I’m like, Do you have a Trello board? Do you have systems on there? Like, I don’t have any of that. I’m like, let me teach you. Because I’m telling you like, once you learn how to create systems and structure and processes, not to become this rigid person, but to be able to have it so that it can give you that margin. Yeah, changes. It changes the game. I don’t want to hold anything up here in my head. I want to have it so that it’s out somewhere and then when I’m off, you know, doing my things paddleboarding. riding my motorcycle like adventuring? You know, I don’t want to have to think about Monday and what I have to be doing, I shouldn’t have to, there should be a system set up so that the things that I’m working on are already there. And they’re just waiting for

    Paige C. Clark 35:14
    me. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Gosh, if funny, like little tangent about the Enneagram. I love it only and most mostly because it is, it has felt the most true to me. I’ve done a lot of like the Myers Briggs Strengths Finder. And I think they all have their place and all kind of do their own thing. What I like about Enneagram is it felt most accurate of like, okay, this is the root of how I’m acting out of this is my core fear. This is my core intention. And this is what I act out of. Funny side story, when I was in high school, senior year, they made us take a personality, like Job test, really long test, let me tell you like an hour long. And you got called out a class to go take it, and I went and took it. And then I like, got to the end of the test. And it was like, We’re sorry, your personality does not match anything in our databases. And I was like, okay, so then I just like went about my life. And then I come back. Well, then I get called back into the office. And they’re like, You need to take the test. Okay, I tried. I broke the test. I tried to take this test, and it didn’t work. They’re like, Nah, just take it again. Like, okay, like, sir. So I took it again, it got the same exact results. And I just remember feeling like being like, what does that say about me? Because all my friends were like, you know, it was so accurate. It was exactly what I want to do with my life. It was like 100%, just like right there. And I’m like, I wasn’t in their database.

    So all that to say, I’m glad Enneagram has a number for me.

    Cami Aufdermauer 37:19
    But so have you discovered like in that, have you discovered why yet like now?

    Paige C. Clark 37:25
    Like, I can’t even remember what tests it was. It was like, I remember like what the format of it was like, it gave you two options, like two paragraphs, and you had to select which one you related most with.

    Cami Aufdermauer 37:43
    Wow, that’s fast. That was it. And I

    Paige C. Clark 37:45
    just, and I’m like the, like getting it one time. It was like, Okay, getting it two times in a row. I was like, okay, like, I guess I really am weird multiple times over. Wow. Wow, that’s awesome. I will drop a link in the show notes to the Enneagram test. Because it’s, it’s insightful, and it’s really helpful. Okay, like, let’s get back to the topic.

    Cami Aufdermauer 38:16
    So it’s gonna be productivity slash Trello. Board and Enneagram. Yeah,

    Paige C. Clark 38:21
    I even wrote down the name of this episode as we were talking. So you know, it’s gonna be all good. Because I was like, Yeah, Trello Enneagram. All the good stuff. So tell me a little bit about what like your faith extracurriculars look like? So you wake up in the morning, you have your Jesus time all set aside, you have your boundaries. What else do you do what else goes on in the life of Cami?

    Cami Aufdermauer 38:52
    Wow, what a good question. So I am really involved in our church. We started going to a new new church to us about No, I think it’s been about three years now. And we have always been my husband and I have for the past 10 years have been in some type of leadership role in our church, whether that was, you know, on the worship team leading Bible Studies. And so when we came to our new church about three years ago, I remember just being like, I’m not going to do anything. I’m just gonna show up on a Sunday and I’m gonna, you know, do that. Well, that didn’t last long, because that’s not who God created me to be. Right. And I again, back to reading Julia’s book. While I was reading that it started to bring up I had remembered that there was a ministry called Embrace grace, which is a ministry for unmarried moms and teen unexpected pregnancies. Yeah. And I was like, while I was reading her book, I was like, Oh, I forgot about that. Like, I wanted to start a group because it’s a nonprofit, but then you start groups in your own church, right? And I remember Calling my pastor and being like, hey, so I think I figured out how I want to be involved, like, because my pastor is really good about bringing people into their calling. And so he had asked me like, how do you want to be involved? And I was like, Well, I don’t really know. Yeah, I’ve done the worship team thing I’ve done that this thing, you know, I don’t know how I want to be involved. So I remember when you know that that dream was kind of awakened to me again, I reached out to him. And I said, I think I’m supposed to start this group. And he was just like, Great, let’s do it. And so that was about a year ago. And we ended up launching in about a month after that a month after I talked to him, we launched the first ever in our community, embrace Grace groups specific to single and pregnant moms. And so that when you live in a rural community, and you don’t have a lot of resources, we don’t even have a pregnancy center, we don’t have, we don’t have a lot of resources that you find in bigger towns. So this has been a really important, a really important program. And what’s really exciting is now we’re you know, a couple years later, and we’ve been able to take girls through this group and host really amazing baby showers. And I actually have been able to hand off the baton to my co leader who called me this was a couple of weeks ago, she called me and she said, Cami, I think I’m ready to take over leadership, which when we first started, she’s like, please don’t ever make me lead. And I was like, That’s amazing, Andrea, because I My schedule is super busy in ministry just in my job, right. And so part of me was like, I was thinking in my head, oh, man, like, I don’t know, if I have the time that I need to give to this like, and when she reached out and said, I’m ready to leave. I knew it was time to let that go. And then what got really exciting for me is that I’m like, Okay, God, but where do you want me? And he really showed me, he goes, I want you to mentor, that CO leader. Her name is Andrea, I want you to mentor her into her leadership role. And I was I love the thought of in the church, helping mentor people in their leadership roles, whatever that looks like, right? Yeah, like really driving people towards their purpose, which is also what I get to do in my daily job. But I was like, what if I could do that to help the church grow, too. And so that’s been kind of a new thing for me. And I think I’m 37 I might be 38 I’m not sure. I’m one of those numbers. I think I’m 38. And I don’t know if I ever considered myself like, you know, and I didn’t realize that, like, I can’t mentor people. Now. It’s not like you have to be old, you know, but it’s always kind of think like, oh, the older ladies are like mentoring. So I’ve never, I think it’s the first time that I’ve gotten to the place. I’m like, wait, no, I can start mentoring people like, I can start pouring into people. But I don’t. For me, I’m not interested in just leaving a Bible study or you know, that kind of thing. Like I’m interested in creating different kind of opportunities. So for example, I love to adventure like I am an adventurer. It goes with my Enneagram seven we’re literally called the adventure. And so I kayak paddleboard motorcycle like I love all those things. And so I started a women’s Adventure Club in my community. And it started as a small group through my church. And so I get like women signed up and once a month we go and we adventure. We go we go hiking. We go kayaking, we we went skydiving. That was pretty fun. I got any ladies, Pam, that was amazing. Wow. Wow, this I know, good. Group. Totally. So this group has grown from, you know, I mean, one, it’s from like, 10. To now we have over 500 women. Again, rural community. This has been a year only a year 500 women who are in now it’s a Facebook group, because I’m like, I can’t manage this, like Planning Center stuff. So 500 500 women and our community club, and all I do it’s so low key. All I do is the few days before our once a month we do at the first Saturday of every month. I just put where we’re meeting, and everyone shows up. I mean, the most we’ve had is probably like 4040 Women 40 Women kayaking, like I found kayaks from all over the community. But about we’ll get anywhere from about 15 to 40 will come but that is every week I occur every month. I’m getting to meet new women. I start every group out with a prayer. Like I’d say prayer for safety, you know, have a prayer. And it’s really I say we are here to build community. We are here to get to know each other. We are here to be in God’s creation and we do a name game every time so we’re learning people’s names. And as easy as it is because it’s really not hard like I literally post something on Facebook and we all show up the amount of ladies that afterwards are like, thank you so much for doing this, like people are hungry for community. Yes, sometimes it really is just as easy as saying, What am I already doing that I can bring people along? And I it’s been, it’s been so cool.

    Paige C. Clark 45:18
    Yeah, that’s awesome. And one thing, one of the ministry leaders who I’ve been involved with in the past, he just said, he said, you always have to eat. So why not bring people along with you to eat? And so like to what you’re saying, you’re already going kayaking, you’re already going on hikes, are already going skydiving, maybe. Might as well bring people along with that and create that community.

    Cami Aufdermauer 45:47
    I love it. And I actually it’s funny that you brought up the food thing. I don’t enjoy having meals together. I mean, that might be really weird. But I would much rather be outside. Yeah, like experiencing like, an opportunity. Like, if, honestly, like, if I were to hang out with friends, I would rather us always be doing something. Like it’s harder for me. Like, if I have the choice between like sitting across the table from you at a coffee shop, or just being outside on a walk or whatever, I’m always gonna choose the outside. And it’s just, it’s cool to be able to kind of meet people in like a more low key. I remember when I was with Habitat, especially during like, COVID time. Yeah, I was like, Hey, let’s get like, we don’t need to be in the office. Let’s go jump on the kayaks. I had so many meetings with people just on the kayaks. And like, that is how I want to live life.

    Paige C. Clark 46:39
    Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think just like, I think there’s something to say too, about like, feel like our world and our culture is so highly curated. I think there’s something to be said to what comes easy, and what comes naturally. And just incorporating that into a wider audience and into more people and, and then bringing God along with it.

    Cami Aufdermauer 47:05
    Well, I started thinking, it’s funny, because this has just been two days ago, because I literally work from home now. Right? Like so my, my kitchen tables right there. I could very easily open up to, you know, once a week where on the lunch hour, you know, or like 12 to noon, like bring your sack lunch come over, let’s do some dream storming. Let’s just really make this time about, like, what are you passionate about? What are your goals? Like, where are you headed? What’s God really put in your life? Because I want? Do I want those conversations and friendships. But I’m like, how easy for me to just throw it up on Facebook, create an event, you know, does a small group, like it takes no effort from me? Except for to just say, Okay, I’ll show up. Yeah, I mean, even if it’s just me, it shows up. Yeah, I think I used to have a lot of fear around starting something and nobody showing up. And that was based on the limiting beliefs that I was living in. And now it’s really like, God, if this is your plan, it is going to work. I truly believe that if it’s God’s plan it like you were telling me before we started this, like, if it’s God’s plan, it will work. The timing may not be ours. But I believe if he’s created me to create community, then he’s going to bring that community to me.

    Paige C. Clark 48:24
    Yeah, for sure. And you’re convicting me right now. Because so I just moved into this new community. And there’s maybe 50 people in here already. Very, very small community. And not all the houses are filled yet. They’re still getting filled. And we have this like community space, where there’s fire pits, and like a gazebo and a water fountain. And it’s really nice. And I’ve wanted to do like a weekly, like, weekly get together and just like say, Hey, I’m going to be in the community space with a bottle of wine. Anyone want to join, bring your own glass like that, that kind of thing. That’s something that I’ve been wanting to do. And like you’re convicting me of like, Just do it.

    Cami Aufdermauer 49:12
    Right. And think how I mean, and that’s going to, maybe we both need to check in on each other with this because again, not hard. Yeah, you know, we put it on your calendar by the bottle of wine show up, and then let God do the rest. And I think that’s what I’ve loved about Adventure Club. It does not feel heavy at all. Like I look forward to and I leave every single week just going like oh man that was good. Like this is this is what it’s all about, like connecting with people. And I think just God is so good to open us up like to open us up to really have the opportunity to say yes, and when he tells us to move, that we are obedient in that Yeah. Okay, it sounds like wine clubs happen.

    Paige C. Clark 49:58
    If it weren’t storming out All right now I would say like let’s do it Friday, but we are currently storming. There were hurricane force winds in the mountains. So, you know, yeah, casual, actually out here. So in the Arizona in the desert, you have to be careful when it’s windy. I like hope I don’t deter people from like coming out here I’m talking like, like 22 Like, winds remember half that 80 miles an hour. Okay, like so what happens especially during the summer when we get more wind storms, there’s this thing called Valley fever. And like, you can get it from breathing in like the dirt from like, the dust storms. So you know,

    Cami Aufdermauer 50:44
    really weird,

    Paige C. Clark 50:46
    right? I’m just like, there’s it’s just like a spore that you inhale that gets but like it’s not in the city or anything. What happens is the winds come from so far out of the city, it’s in the desert. Like that’s where this like, fungus lives in the desert. And it blows in and then like you get, you can get valley fever. Although my husband’s lived here for 30 Something he’s never got it never got it. It’s like the Oregon

    Cami Aufdermauer 51:11
    Sasquatch. Like is it real is not real,

    Paige C. Clark 51:15
    is definitely real, like people get really sick from it. But I personally have not and neither has my husband. So I I am just aware of the fact that like, Hey, don’t necessarily go run around in a dust storm. It’s you know, it’s not really good for your lungs.

    Cami Aufdermauer 51:34
    I wouldn’t even know what that is like because I live in a place that rains you know, 365 inches a year so Wow, all right, no dust here.

    Paige C. Clark 51:45
    I seriously, I have not only do we have the air filters in the ceiling, but we have like mobile filters in every room because it gets so dusty even inside the house.

    Cami Aufdermauer 52:00
    Well, you know what it must be nice page to have sunshine. I mean, it’s been a long winter here on the Oregon coast. Let me just say, remember what I was saying. Like, sometimes you started thinking about moving on, like never make a moving decision at the end of winter in Oregon. Because you’re just so ready. The sun will come but when when is my passion.

    Paige C. Clark 52:23
    And also wherever you want to move. Go visit it at the worst time of year.

    Cami Aufdermauer 52:31
    Right now in Arizona when there’s dust storms.

    Paige C. Clark 52:34
    No now’s not even the worst time I was gonna say like we’re still like three months away from the worst time which is August, July and August but I laugh one of my one of my neighbors she’s from California. And I the first year which was last year she was here. We had a bad dust storm and she was texting me like Paige I walked outside and there is dust everywhere. I was like yes. Like, this is a dust storm like this is what happens. They usually blow over in a few minutes, like usually takes like 15 minutes and they’re over with and then you can just go about your day. She texts me back. He’s like, it’s like frontier weather. I was like, Oh, like that is like the best thing I have ever heard because I definitely have a tumbleweed and my friend Yeah, right now my gosh, the wind. tumbleweeds are real thing if you like don’t believe the movies. They actually exist guys.

    Cami Aufdermauer 53:36
    Oh, when I walked out of the airport elevators in Florida, because I’ve never been I literally the ladies I was with. I was like, What is that like talking about the humidity? Yeah. And they’re like, that’s humidity. I’m like, Oh, good, Lord. That is not cool.

    Paige C. Clark 53:52
    No, nope. It’s like opening an oven door. Just like weird. Yeah, I don’t do humidity, which is why I’m in the desert. i My family lives in the South. I will not follow them there. No. Oh, gosh, so many good things. One thing that I’d like to talk about and this kind of like, I don’t know, I was looking over these questions. And I was just like, I’m like really like pushing people to kind of like tattletale on themselves and like, be a little bit vulnerable. But what’s your biggest struggle when it comes to practicing your faith and working full time?

    Cami Aufdermauer 54:34
    Oh, well, I think we did kind of touched on a little little bit, but I think it’s not like honestly, this is what God’s showing me is not finding fulfillment and anything above him. Yeah. Because again, I get that I am blessed that my job is so stinking fulfilling like, truly. But I don’t I don’t want anything to fill me up. except for, you know, to overflowing like nothing’s gonna fill me to overflowing like God can and will. And so I think that for me, I just have to always check where I’m getting filled up. Yeah, it has to be it has to be God first. And just really making sure again, asking myself that question of if I continue on this, even though I’m having fun, will I have missed out on something that’s important, like, well, I look back and think, Oh, I had the opportunity to spend more time with my kids. But I was so distracted by even good things, even ministry, right? I’m distracted by ministry that now I’m not going on date nights with my husband, or I’m not, you know, spending time in the evening with with my girls or watching movies with them. Like, I’m being so productive in these other areas that I’m not actually resting. And that for me, like one of the things that I just I was doing this Bible study that I’ve been a part of, and God gave me some major revelations, which I’ve never been like a picture person, but he showed me a picture of a roller coaster. And I was like, What is this, like this big roller coaster. And he basically I grabbed my journal and I, I have no desire to write a book. But if I did, I just wrote my first chapter. Right? It was like 10 pages. And it was all this word picture about how the way that I ride a roller coaster, is the way that I actually approached my entire life. So but the part that really struck me because right we are on the roller coaster, and like all this enthusiasm and all these word pictures, but it was what I do when I get off the roller coaster. And that’s that I get off the roller coaster after I’ve after I’ve basically wrote it 100 times. And all of a sudden, I look around, and I’m exhausted because I haven’t eaten. I haven’t drink any water. I haven’t taken care of my body. Like I’ve just been Go, go go. But the saddest thing was when I looked around at my family, or the people around me, this was the first time that I even noticed that they’re like, Mom, we’re exhausted. You haven’t sat us you haven’t, you know, like, we’re just because nobody could keep up at my pace, and I pushing and pushing and pushing. And that’s when I went, Oh, like I have to actually get it off the roller coaster and the roller coaster isn’t always bad. But I have to get off the roller coaster. You know, and actually, while I’m on it, I need to look around and evaluate the people around me is my drive. Where are they at? Like, where are they at? And also for me because, again, I got off the roller coaster. And now I’m like, I haven’t eaten. I’m thirsty. I gotta pee. You know, like all the times that I haven’t taken care of, because I’ve been so in it. And that just really made me go God, I want to do a better job of resting in you. So that when I’m on the roller coaster, it’s sustainable. Because I want to know that I’m stewarding Well, this season that he’s given me help. Like I’m healthy. I have, you know, I have a lot of great things going on in my life. But I want to keep those things and I don’t want to run things into the ground. And I don’t want to run those around me, you know, into the ground either. And I have to watch out for

    Paige C. Clark 58:19
    that. Yeah, absolutely. I think also, when you’re saying, only getting your fulfillment from God, and one thing that I’ve been just thinking of over the past few months in the past year, especially being like so engrained in like, the corporate world is also like, getting your identity from God and God alone. Because as you work, it’s really easy to say I’m Cami, and I’m the Director of Operations. Right? Like you ask someone like oh, like, who are you? What do you do? And it’s, I do this for for work, and that’s who I am. And, and really, it’s like, oh, I’m like a daughter of the king. Like I am a follower of Christ. Yeah, struggle identity, you should find bee bee in

    Cami Aufdermauer 59:15
    the switch from the executive director of habitat in my own community, right, where you are a leader in your community, that when I was getting ready to transition out of that role into the role that I’m in now, that was a huge because my identity was like I was Cami, the executive director of habitat. And I knew that when I went to this job, nobody’s going to know my name. I’m now working on a global scale. What I call nobodies like, oh, it’s cameo after Mauer, like in a small town, everybody knows you. So I knew like going over to this job that I was going to wrestle and it was almost like letting go of work. You know, just kind of what you’re saying like that identity and who you are. Are you know, and I think even living in a small town, it’s very easy to just think that’s how it is everywhere. But it’s not like, right, I have to go out. And now I have to introduce myself. And, you know, it’s kind of this whole different thing. And that was a big shift for me and one that I’m really thankful I went through because I now don’t believe that I identify myself. Like I, I think more just, I know, God’s using me in ministry in ways that he’s called me to and gifted me to, but I, I don’t see myself and in this job, making it my identity. Right takes up a lot of my time. And yeah, you know, there’s all that balance there. But I would say, I, that was a very stark transition from one job to the next.

    Paige C. Clark 1:00:50
    Yeah, and I think I think it’s seen a lot. I mean, I can’t really speak for more like blue collar jobs, but definitely in like, corporate kind of white collar jobs. It’s always about what’s your next step? What are you going to do next? How are you going to uplevel? I remember I was at a job and they’re like, oh, what’s your growth plan? And I’m like, hey, my bills, and have kids one day, like, like, my growth plan. And what I wanted for myself was not associated with my job. I’m gonna do my job with excellence. And I’m going to do it well. And whatever happens after that cool, that’s up to God. But like, my, my soul, I guess, like meditation, when it comes to my future is not about my job. And what I do?

    Cami Aufdermauer 1:01:44
    Yeah, no, I can’t relate to that. Because mine was, yeah, it definitely was, especially habitat like, and again, I was the director. So I mean, there was no position above mine. So nobody was ever asking, like, what are your goals here? I just had no idea that someday, I wouldn’t just be working in my own community. So I never had to think about the fact that, like, when I go knock on the door, this person has no idea who I am. So that was a very cool thing for me, because it helped me to get out of my own small, you know, mindedness. Really. I mean, that’s not a bad thing. Like my whole family’s been here. Like, they’ve had amazing careers in this one community. But I didn’t know that was possible for me. And so I’ve never had to think about what would that look like to start knocking on doors where nobody knows your name? You know, like, that was a that was a, it’s been really cool. Like, I haven’t hated it. At first, I was scared. But now it’s like, wow, I even told my husband, I’m like, I could change my name to Kamara and nobody. Please don’t do that. I’m like, Okay, I won’t do that. But all of a sudden, I was like, I could create like, this new identity, although I like who I am. Right? Like it does give you an opportunity to kind of that freedom. We were talking about the work that working from home, I will never forget, because again, brand new for me to work from home. I’ll never forget when I grabbed my laptop, which is like a MacBook Air. So super small, you know, then I held it up to my daughter in the car. I said, Do you want to know something cool. She’s like what I said, anywhere. This laptop can go Mommy can go. And she’s like, really? I’m like, This is my job in this laptop. And it just kind of opened up like, I could go anywhere. I haven’t gone anywhere. You could go somewhere, you know, come visit you and we could Yes. Go sit in the dust storm.

    Paige C. Clark 1:03:37
    Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like with your adventuring. I’m like we should definitely go up to page Have you have you like do you know what page? What is page Arizona? Is the city smelt like like a book page? Not like Right. And it’s on the like the northern most border of Arizona. Probably take like from where I’m at. It’s like a six hour drive. It’s a long drive. But it’s beautiful. Look up horseshoe Canyon. Look up Antelope Canyon. All of those are your so you’re gonna meet me there. Yeah.

    Cami Aufdermauer 1:04:16
    Okay. Sure. Sounds good. I’ll bring my laptop. Well, we’re

    Paige C. Clark 1:04:18
    gonna work party. Yeah, we’ll go up to the snow and like go anyways. Antelope Canyon. If y’all are ever in Arizona, go with you know, one of the tribes. They do the tours up there. And it is beautiful. And it’s crazy because I was like I heard Canyon. And I was thinking like, like, you’re on the ground and the mountains go up, and you’re in the canyon that you go down to the earth and that’s the canyon. Oh, yeah. It’s trippy like you there’s a crack in the ground and that’s what you climb. bid. How do you get out? You climb a ladder? Oh, wow. Yeah, it’s awesome. Anyways, Cami we should make that happen.

    Cami Aufdermauer 1:05:09
    I love it. I love even if I went nowhere, I love knowing that I can. And I know I will. But also in due season, right, so like, I just I love opportunity to look at what’s out there. And like, okay, where to next God again, I lived in this community my whole life. But that’s not to say I couldn’t go somewhere else right? Maybe someday I will. I never thought that was an option.

    Paige C. Clark 1:05:36
    I love that. I love that. Well, Cami, let’s wrap it up with what is one thing our listeners can do to implement a faith building discipline or practice in their life this week?

    Cami Aufdermauer 1:05:50
    Well, besides get a Trello board, because seriously, create some margin, honestly, like I, I again, I think it takes resources to get you to where you want to go. And so I’m just going to recommend a resource. And that, again, is that to buy the dream, I dare you book. Really, truly, this book is what catapulted me to where I am today, mindset wise, but also career wise, also how to dream all those things. So that would be kind of my, my one charge is get this book, because this book is really what changed the game for me.

    Paige C. Clark 1:06:31
    I can’t wait and your book is on

    Cami Aufdermauer 1:06:33
    your way, lady, it’s in the mail right now.

    Paige C. Clark 1:06:37
    Shut out. That’s exciting. I was gonna say I need to read it. I have actually on my desk, I have 1-234-567-8910 or 11 books that are on my list for the year. So that one will get moved to the top of the stack.

    Cami Aufdermauer 1:06:58
    It’s a small group study too. So it comes with a workbook. So I’ll send you the workbook as well. Oh, um, because that’s really where the depth comes in. Right. And I’m excited to see you take that journey because it’s, it changed the game. Changed it all for me.

    Paige C. Clark 1:07:12
    Awesome. Cami, thank you so much for joining us and we’ll catch you guys next week. Thanks for joining us. If you liked what you were listening to make sure you subscribe and hit those five stars and we’ll catch you on the next episode.

     

  • 9 to 5 Faith Podcast: Episode 09

    9 to 5 Faith Podcast

    This is a transcript from episode 09 of the 9 to 5 Faith Podcast with Paige C. Clark.

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    Start of Podcast

    Paige C. Clark 00:02
    All right, hello everyone happy. Whatever day you’re listening this on this will be released on a Saturday. So if you’re listening to it on a Saturday, happy Saturday, I’m here with my friend DeeDee. How’re you doing today?

    DeeDee Lake 00:16
    I am doing really well. I’m tickled to be here with you.

    Paige C. Clark 00:19
    I’m so excited. I’m excited that this can happen today and that all the stars aligned and we were able to talk about life and military life and how to fit God into all of that. And I’m just I’m so excited for this conversation. Me too. Me too. And you’re like continuing kind of the theme of your life of moving a whole lot. And you just moved and you’re in a brand new house right now. So that’s exciting.

    DeeDee Lake 00:48
    There, we decided that we wanted to, we live in Colorado Springs area and wanted to come down and spend some time over the last eight, nine years we’ve been doing that to spend time with their grandkids in San Antonio. So we’ve got a year we’ve been looking for property, couldn’t find it went home back to Colorado. And within three weeks, we saw a house and bought it down here in Burnie so yeah, it’s pretty like, oh my gosh, so yes, exactly like the military life for you.

    Paige C. Clark 01:14
    All crazy. So can you tell our listeners a little bit about you?

    DeeDee Lake 01:19
    So I’ve been married almost 40 years, I have two adopted children. They’re adults now both married and providing grandbabies doing exactly what they’re supposed to. And then I grew up as a Navy brat and was an army wife. So Army Navy Day football game, not a good day in our house. Since I’ve been an army wife longer than a navy brat, I decided to go army.

    Paige C. Clark 01:45
    Very good. And are you still living the military life or since retired?

    DeeDee Lake 01:51
    We are retired, but it’s still a military life. Like you’d never quite get away from it. Just using this new neighborhood. We almost all of our neighbors are retired military. So we have that in common. And so it gives you that bond, no matter where you go, you know?

    Paige C. Clark 02:07
    That’s really nice. Yeah, for sure. And what do you do for like your regular nine to five,

    DeeDee Lake 02:13
    so my regular nine to five, I have three different jobs. And that all of them pay well. Fine. So a wedding officiant in Colorado and love that I actually did 40 weddings in 13 months. Wow. Figure it out and loved it every minute of it. Because it’s so neat to be able to see the people’s faces like I have the best seat in the house. I didn’t know I right there. You know, like when He winks at her or she smiles or whatever. It’s like, I’m right there. So it’s so much fun to do those. And then I’m a writer and speaker. So I’ve written a couple of books. And then also I work for a Christian publishing house crossover media, and I am their author, relations coordinator. That means I am the cheerleader for the authors. I hold their hand through the about two year process of, you know, from beginning of manuscript to getting it to the market.

    Paige C. Clark 03:02
    Oh, that’s awesome. And like, as you’re describing those things, I just like, sing like yep, that that fits. Yeah, that sounds that sounds just about right for you and your personality, and just the energy that you’re exuding. It feels you know, just about right?

    DeeDee Lake 03:20
    Every job I’ve ever had had something to do with chatty now. I don’t know if it was in the actual job description, or if I just kind of made it about chatting, but yeah, and connecting. That’s my my heart is about connecting.

    Paige C. Clark 03:32
    Yeah. As StrengthsFinder Are you connector?

    DeeDee Lake 03:36
    Yes, actually. Yep. Whoo. But I’m gonna find out. I was not aware. I was quite disappointed. But then I realized, no, that wasn’t my strength.

    Paige C. Clark 03:45
    Yeah, yeah, for sure. So take us through a little bit of like, what your day to day life looks like and how, how do you incorporate your faith into your daily work and what that looks like, and even in the military? Talk a little bit about that. And like what I mean, y’all move a lot.

    DeeDee Lake 04:10
    Actually, this is our 51st house I live in. I’ve lived in 50. And so I’ve moved around a little bit more than a lot of people did. But yeah, it was quite a bit. So day to day. So I grew up in nonbeliever, and my parents didn’t go to church, they they had both grown up in the church, but didn’t really share that with us. And I think part of that problem was because we were military, it was hard for them to get connected. It really is. If you’re intentional about it. It doesn’t just sort of happen. You know, I think that way was everyone but especially the military because you every two, three years you’re moving you know, or three or four years. And so it’s hard to get some people have a hard time getting connected. And that was my case, I think with my parents and then for me, once I married my husband, we were believers and so we always that was like our first thing that we will Look forward to like, you get your orders and or your say you might be going someplace you look online or you, you know, call people, Hey, do you know somebody there? So for that, that was important, you have to do it that way. But as far as putting things in my daily life, I work for a Christian organization, I write Christian things. The only part that really isn’t is I married people that aren’t, aren’t Christian believers. And they know though that my faith and so it’s kind of neat, because a lot of times will ask me questions, it gives me an opportunity to say, you know, we’ve been married almost 40 years, and this is why it works. And we have a great marriage, my husband stuff. And so it’s kind of neat to have that as an example to be able to kind of lead into talking about God.

    Paige C. Clark 05:41
    Yeah, my gosh, and I could go on a separate rampage about like, how much easier marriage is when you are both believers and stepping into that, because it just makes things a lot easier and a lot more centered, because you’re going for the same thing. When you’re married to another believer, so yeah, definitely.

    DeeDee Lake 06:03
    We, a lot of the people, not a lot, about a third of the people that I marry are not believers, or not strong believers. And so funny because I still pray for him pray over them, you know, not without their knowledge as to whoever I want to know. So I at home, I write for them and their relationship. And I have a goal that none of the people that I officiate will ever be separated. So that’s my I don’t know if they will, because I don’t get in touch with them. But that’s my hope.

    Paige C. Clark 06:29
    That’s beautiful. So tell me a little bit about your, your job of working as author relations.

    DeeDee Lake 06:39
    What’s the title, the author, relations coordinator coordinator,

    Paige C. Clark 06:42
    I was gonna say, coordinator, but I like author relations coordinator. And you said you work for a Christian organization, how much is your faith intertwined, and like your ability to practice and like Minister your faith in that?

    DeeDee Lake 06:58
    So I work, my job was created just for me. I met Tamra climber who is the publisher for and she’s the one who started the company. There’s only three of us actually, that work for the company. And we’re all in three different different states. We have an editor Deb Butterfield, and then Tammy. So I met Tammy at a Christian writers conference one year and we just connected we both are adopted moms, and you know, just all these different stories. And so the next year when I saw her mean that she was on my heart all year long, so I thought, You know what, when I see her next time, I’m gonna ask her a question. So we’re sitting around the fireplace, and I said, Hey, can I Is there something I could do that i where we could work together, you don’t mean necessarily should have to pay me I just wanted to be in relationship, you know, rounder, because I just loved what she did. And so she thought about it, she was like, okay, you know, she came up with this author relations, because she really needed somebody to, you know, to connect with them. And that’s how my faith really worked for me in my job is because I am a strong believer in pretty much every thing I say, has something to do with being about the Lord or, you know, every conversation somehow or another gets brought around to that. And it’s great to be able to just been encouraged or you know, sometimes, well, not sometimes writing is a very lonely job, you know, and so I’ve gotten off, there’s a lot of them are very introverted. To start with. That’s I one of the weird ones is an extrovert. But basically, you’re either a writer that learns that has to learn to speak to promote your book, or you’re a speaker first, and then you have to write a book, so you can get contracts. That’s been, um, the second one, so I was. And so which is good, though, because I encouraged the ladies I’m able to pray with them. I always pray with them. It just, you know, I check in with him, you know, it’s like, Hey, how’s life going? And and so those whole conversations are just like, sitting down having coffee with your friend, you know, your, your Christian believer, friend. And they’re all at different levels. Some of them are really strong Christian, some are, you know, newer. And so it’s kind of neat, just to be able to mentor them. Really? Yeah. They call myself the writer, Wrangler, because, you know, I lived in Colorado, so a good writer, but they’re like, yeah, no.

    Paige C. Clark 09:04
    needs to be a little bit more formal than that. Yeah, exactly. And I probably fall into the small like, 1% of authors who are actually very extroverted. I’m right there with you. So I feel that and I think also, it might depend on like, what genre you write in, because I found this might be stereotyping, but I found fiction authors to be a little bit more introspective, and then nonfiction authors to be a little bit more out there.

    DeeDee Lake 09:37
    Yeah, yeah. Definitely. I write both. So I’m kind of like, you know, a little double brained or whatever. But yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 09:45
    So when you were in the military and traveling around you said that, you know, you were making, finding kind of a faith community a priority. What did that look like for you and how did you, you know, kind of first temporary season find your people. Yeah.

    DeeDee Lake 10:03
    So one, one thing that always that we did was we never looked at it as temporary. Because we know where we’re all going, you know. And so I get to see him up in heaven, we’ll get to celebrate and you know, laugh and joke, I think, I don’t know if we’ll get the laugh and joke, but that’s my extroverted mind, that’s what we’re gonna be doing is having fun. But we always looked at it as like, we’re planting roots as quick as we can. Just really putting ourselves in those positions. And in places where you could meet people, you’re gonna be like, most people are not gonna come knock on your door, go, Hey, I’m a believer, I want to love on you. We can, like, it doesn’t normally happen. It could. But so we just always, yeah, we met our neighbors, we would go to different activities like community activities. And I think as a believer, you’re kind of drawn to other believers, you know, like, there’s that presence about them. That’s like, oh, okay, they have something different. So that was one, I think a big thing was that we always made it as a permanent situation. And you know, because you don’t know. And I have friends from my best friend, when we were in junior high seventh grade, we’re still friends, I still go visit or, you know, we hang out, we talk to each other. So that’s really, you know, kind of fun, especially now with Facebook and on social media that Yeah, I mean, a lot easier.

    Paige C. Clark 11:19
    Yeah, yeah, for sure. And did you find it easier to relate or connect with other military, Christian families? Or did you have to kind of step outside of that military community? And then go find kind of some, some church community within that?

    DeeDee Lake 11:39
    That’s a really great question. So the military, when we first went in, you know, it was a while back and didn’t really have the support system that they have. Now, you know, they really support Army family team building, they’ve got, you know, small groups and stuff like that board. But what I kind of found was that there was a lot of negativity in that part, I even say that, but it’s true, you know, there’s some unhappy people in the world, they don’t like the changes, they don’t like their husbands, you know, leaving and those kinds of things. So I kind of avoided those, purposely I went, I would always go like one or two times. So they knew my face, they knew who I was. And then I looked at my church as my support and, and that really makes a difference, because then it does give you some time to be outside of the military stress, because that sounds very stressful. Even if you’re not changing, you know, somebody that is, you know, like, they’re very young, possibly deployed all those things. And not to the civilian world doesn’t have those same kind of stresses. But it just gives you a moment to be away, you know, to connect and be like, Okay, this is real life, you know, the military. So we would usually go to church, outside of the church outside of the pose.

    Paige C. Clark 12:50
    Yeah. And, and what was the best thing that the church did for you in kind of the situation that you found yourself in?

    DeeDee Lake 13:02
    So my husband, I were married seven years and couldn’t have children. We both knew that. So it wasn’t a surprise or anything. But we got to Panama. And I just knew that that when we were in Korea first, and I felt like God just said, I’ve got a baby for you. I felt it so strongly that I thought, well, this is a little, you know, perky. But I walked out church that day, I’m thinking, where’s my baby? Like? You said, I’m gonna have a baby, right? nine to nine, what’s one fix to make one of those. So our next duty station was Panama’s six weeks after we got there. They, we told everybody that we wanted to adopt that we would meet all the strangers that we knew, because that’s what the advice we’ve been given. And so we went there. And in six hours notice we got our daughter, the missionaries brought her Yeah, it was pretty cool. And so the church stepping in and just really mentoring is because now I’m a new mom, and really had no concept of what to do with the baby. Like, all that time. I was like, No, I don’t want to baby I don’t want to have children. God, you’re you’re great. You brought me this man. And I can’t have children. We’re all good, right? And God changed the terms. Or at least he finally revealed them to be a mom. So we had a four month old little girl that we adopted and just the church was our family. We really saw how, how God develops a Church, His Bride to be a family. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 14:22
    And I like for some reason, my brain just got stuck into this idea of like, having orders domestically. And like you said, Panama, like, Yeah, you had orders internationally, which I think poses an additional layer of complexity over it.

    DeeDee Lake 14:43
    Yeah, it definitely did. But it was also easier. You know, in Panama, adopting a baby was at that time we were talking about 32 years ago, so I just want my daughter’s age. But so it wasn’t so hard like it is in the States, but both of our adopted we adopted a son later when we were in the States and we joke around because he was from New York City. And we say that’s our other foreign country that we adopted from we were in Alabama at the time. So that’s where, again, though, that was our military connections that allowed us to know that this baby was available in New York. Yeah, yeah. That’s pretty cool.

    Paige C. Clark 15:17
    Wow, that’s incredible. But also like getting connected to the church community. And in foreign countries, it looks a little bit different.

    DeeDee Lake 15:27
    It does. It’s actually easier. Okay. Yes. And the reason I say that is that here in the States, we tend to our faith is just sort of, you know, part of who we are, you know, it’s like a, I call it, it’s more situational. It’s not a relationship, you know, so much, like, especially if you’re in the south, you’re just kind of expected to go to church, but you’re not except expected necessarily to live all for God and to, you know, be black and white about it, basically. But so like, we’re a Panama, there was so much stuff that like voodoo, and all that kind of stuff that was around. So it’s very easy to see that spiritual battle going on, that we I think that Satan here in the States kind of softens it, or makes us feel like it’s often but it’s not. So very, like you’re either for the Lord or you’re not in Panama is what? Yeah. And Korea the same way. So that was that wow, experience.

    Paige C. Clark 16:21
    That’s incredible. And also, I’ve heard that South Korea has like one of the largest Christian populations to in the world now. Yeah, yeah.

    DeeDee Lake 16:34
    I got to go, I can’t remember the name of the church. But that church that’s like, you know, 1000s of people that go to it, I actually got to go, our choir was invited from the chapel, because that’s how we’re going to the chapel. And we got to go there. And I didn’t really know anything about the church. This was before you get to google anything. And so we show up, and there’s like, 1620 of us, whatever, in this little choir. And we’re sitting there and all of a sudden, as we’re singing this choir of angels, we’re like, oh, my gosh, so by, and finally, I’m like, Oh, they’re right behind us. There’s like 100 and something people back behind this. So they were just enjoying the service. But yeah, it was fun. Because it was like, God to heaven. So yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 17:17
    That’s too funny. So kind of bringing it back to the present. What? How do you make sure that you find your one on one time with God? So your wife, a mom, a grandma, you know, you’re moving you have all these fun? Kind of? I don’t want to call them side hustles? Because they are, they are but also it doesn’t feel like that you have you have all these other projects that that are going on? How do you make sure that you find your one on one time with God and like you’re able to like cultivate your faith in that way?

    DeeDee Lake 17:55
    Well, there’s a couple of things I tried to. So I listen to the word like when I go to sleep, I just put it on and I fell asleep to the word which is really cool to be able to do that. And being an empty nester, now, it’s pretty easy, I can do it whenever I want, you know, and having my schedule that I have, I’m able to say, You know what, I’m gonna do this from eight to nine. But back when I did have children at home, they knew if they came in the room and saw me with my Bible open, you know that it was like, that was my time. And also, one of the things I really recommend people do is create a space that is a cozy space, we did that in every single house we were at. And the cozy space was where we’d have conversations with the kids that maybe were pretty strong, or you know, emotional. But it was also the place it was a cuddle spot. And it was a place that we are myself but sit and read the Word. And so that was my time to be with the Lord. So that for me, I think creating the space makes you when you walk by it, you’re like, oh, I’ll just to be sitting there and remind you without being harsh, you know, it’s like, oh, yeah, let’s let’s go in there and spend some time with the Lord.

    Paige C. Clark 19:00
    Yeah. So tell me about this cozy space. Like, what isn’t it? Like, how did you start it because I’m also thinking like, everyone listening is like, I want a cozy space.

    DeeDee Lake 19:11
    No, everyone should have a cozy space is that place that’s not in the middle of everything that you can get quiet in. It’s usually a place that has really beautiful sunlight in it. It’s not too hot, not too cold. It’s just that beautiful place and you make it beautiful with a soft light, a cozy chair that you want to or we always had a loveseat because or, or oversize when like a chair that like two or three people could sit in was supposed to be a chair. And I always made sure I got one of those or had one in that it’s basically a corner. Yeah, like picked up about your prayer closet. This was my corner that I asked. And I would do that no matter where we’re at. And, um, I am noticing that my kids are starting to create those two, which I think is really cool.

    Paige C. Clark 19:54
    That’s beautiful. Yeah, I have. I have this chair in my office and it Funny enough, my husband calls it my pouting chair. So like, when I’m angry, I like go sit in this chair, like I’m putting myself in timeout. But it’s also like the most is one of those chairs that’s big enough that you can tuck your legs up in, and, like still comfortably sit in it. And so I’m like, that would be the chair that would go in my cozy space.

    DeeDee Lake 20:21
    So typically, I’d have a nice light that I can, you know, see my Bible, you know, with, but also not glaring. So it’s just, it really keeps it in that cozy sort of, you know, Coffee House sort of feeling, you know, I have those couches and stuff. And then usually a table so I can make sure I have my coffee, you know, better. So yeah, that was what we did.

    Paige C. Clark 20:42
    And I found to like, when I’m creating spaces, or environments, like that, kind of having everything set up in like a state of permanency in that place. That way, when you’re sitting there, I’m like, also, like, I have shiny object syndrome. So like, I’m like, if I need to get up to go get like a pen or something, I might get distracted by something else and go off on a tangent and then like, lose my spot. So like having that having a place that’s kind of like prepared for what you’re doing?

    DeeDee Lake 21:14
    Well, our body has like those memories of you know, or, I’m not sure how muscleman memory, you know, basically. So like my office that I have that I write in, I speak, you know, do things like this. That’s all I do in there, I don’t play games on my computer in there, I only work in that space. And so when I go in there, my body is ready to be or my mind or whatever is ready to be like, Okay, it’s time to work. The same thing with the cozy spot. When I sit in the cozy spot. It’s like, okay, this is time to unplug it, you know, just relax here. And what’s nice about that, too, is if you do that, it teaches your children like, Oh, I’m in this space, this is my cozy spot. This is my quiet place, you know, so to get quiet with your spirit, not why like you still talk but Right. And it really trains them that way. I think a lot of moms, especially young moms have a hard time with their children, teaching them that and you just have to I mean, that’s just something and you’ll be glad that you did you. Were here this is you know, kind of like the library. But yeah,

    Paige C. Clark 22:15
    yeah, I love that. I love that. So you have your cozy space, and you kind of have your routine. And I think that working from home because you work remote, I work remote to for my job. I think it adds a layer of simplicity and complexity. At the same time. When it comes to our routine and our rhythms through throughout our life. It’s very easy to get sucked into things on off hours. And it’s very easy to get distracted by things on on hours. So how do you balance that for yourself?

    DeeDee Lake 22:52
    I put it on my schedule. Definitely I put it on the schedule. I’m not like super strict about it. But I once heard, I think it was a pastor was talking about like, we put all these different things in our schedule, work, a doctor’s appointment, whatever. But the most important thing is our relationship with price. And we never put it on the schedule. So he said the first thing you do just like you tied, you know, with your money, slides with your time. So when you’re gonna say okay, this is what we’re doing next week. The first thing is, I go to church, or I’m going to spend my quiet time at this time. And then again, it goes back to that muscle memory that says you know what, this is my routine. This is what my body feels good when I when I do this. Not all like who do duty, whatever you don’t say, naturally, that’s who we are. We feel better when our the Lord. So putting out my schedule really makes a difference. And also being in a Bible study keeps me accountable. I like that when I’m going to Bible study, I noticed that I’m better at it when I have, you know, other ladies that I’m going to meet with and be like, oh, yeah, they’re gonna be like, So how was your week? Ah, you don’t sit down and spend time with it. I can almost guarantee you is a crazy week for you. But even if everything’s going crazy, and you split time with the Lord, your your day just doesn’t feel is out of control.

    Paige C. Clark 24:05
    Yeah, yeah. And I also even like, you know, second and third that accountability piece because like, even even with my husband, I we don’t do it every night. But like, every now and then at the end of the day, he’ll be like, how did you see God move in your life today? And I’m like, did I even pay attention to God today? Like, Yeah, real talk. Like that’s a real life sometimes. And it’s, you know, having that accountability is like a gut check of like, ooh, like, did I even like talk to God? Did he even like, did I even consider him today in the midst of everything else that was going on?

    DeeDee Lake 24:43
    I think to the more you mature in your face, it becomes such a natural routine for you that yeah, like I was saying about every conversation I have somehow another turns around to God or you know, and I don’t do it on purpose. I mean, just just who I am. Just do what God says what you put in come Without and so that makes a difference. And eventually people will stop wanting to talk to you about anything but the Lord. So like, Okay.

    Paige C. Clark 25:08
    Absolutely, absolutely. And, and I think too, there’s a lot of shame and maybe stigma over the need to schedule him these things. And I think that we have to, as a culture accept the fact that we are far we have a lot of stimulus happening more than other generations and cultures that came before us.

    DeeDee Lake 25:36
    Absolutely. I always say that being a mom or dad today is way harder than when my kids were younger. I mean, I admire anybody that does it well, because, I mean, you got the whole world of fighting against you wanting to come into your home and, and, and their friends and their family. I mean, we have problems a little bit when our kids were in high school, that, you know, we raised them a certain way, and they would go to a friend’s house that was a Christian home, but they just weren’t as strong in their faith, maybe, or maybe didn’t implement it as much, you know, and right. And so, you know, there’s some criticism, but we’re like, you know, what, we’re gonna do what we’re gonna do. Our son was funny, he would get mad at us, because we would let him go to parties where they were drinking. Yeah, in high school, you know? And yeah, yeah, he would always Yeah, they’re gonna be drinking. So like, why would we let you go? Right. But now as an adult, he’s like, oh, yeah, that was, that was really good. I’m glad you guys watched out for me, you know, I’m just having to that accountability, I was gonna say that, we want to make sure that we’re giving grace to, you know, whenever anybody’s struggling. And remember, there are seasons, I remember when my babies were little. And our son was, he was like, 10. And one. I mean, he just was active. And people were funny, they would come up to me and say, Oh, he’s so busy. I’m like,

    Paige C. Clark 26:55
    I didn’t notice. Like the frazzled,

    DeeDee Lake 26:58
    I would get a little jealous, I think of when I go to Bible studies, and there’s these older women there that, you know, had nobody at home to take care of it themselves. And they’d get through their whole Bible study where I might have three days done, you know, what, I just had some really great mentors that said, you know, what, you’ll do what you can. And it’s just a season, you know, there’ll be a season later that you’ll be able to spend hours with the Lord, if that’s what you want. But just remember to give yourself grace, and God does give us that, you know, he’s not expecting 24 hours a day for us to you know, he knows we have kids, we knows we have a schedule. Yeah, so not surprising. Yeah. And

    Paige C. Clark 27:35
    I think it’s, you know, having those moments where like, they say, you know, glitter gets just everywhere. And I think like, we just need to make God our glitter and just like, have him everywhere. So as we’re moving throughout our day, we find, oh, there’s a piece of glitter. Like,

    DeeDee Lake 27:53
    I love that. I once heard, and it’s probably been around a lot. But that is there a net if being a Christian was against the law, is there enough Christ in your life around your environments, and who you talk about what you say, who you hang out with, to convict you. And you so you look around your home, if somebody walks in your home, can they tell you’re a believer, that’s important, not that you’re doing it to show off or to be that, you know, Pharisee, whatever, but just that you just who you are, like, you know, my son brought me across him and his wife brought me this beautiful cross, it has parts from, you know, the old country in it, and I’m just very symbolic. And I thought that was so neat. You know, so I’ve got that on my wall. You know, yeah, we asked me about is like, oh, yeah, this is what this means. And you know, so I just think that we need to make sure that when we’re there when we’re in our home, that when we look around, we can tell? Yeah, I’m a believer.

    Paige C. Clark 28:47
    Yeah. Yeah. And also, like, not only can it you know, if Christianity was made to be illegal, not only like, Can we stay in conviction, but can we still sit in our faith? You know, do we know the word enough? Do we? Are we surrounded by people who know the word enough? Do we have enough inputs in our life, to be able to sustain that?

    DeeDee Lake 29:12
    Exactly. One of the things that we’ve always looked for is really great mentors. And sometimes mentors are a little bit younger than you, they’re not always older. You know, as far as their faith, they may be way further than you are. But surrounding yourself with those kinds of people that when you go to them and say, you know, I got an issue, I just don’t know what to do. Instead of you know, becoming a nag fest or whatever, it’s, it’s you guys sitting down praying together, you know, I’m showing you the word that we’re that can heal, you know, whatever the situation is.

    Paige C. Clark 29:42
    Yeah. And I mean, it might, it might be flippant, but one thing that I’ve been doing so I work in social media, so I’m on social media all the time. And one thing that I’ve been starting to do with like my personal accounts I’ve just started then like engaging with other Christian accounts that just talked about Jesus and, you know, other just other believers. And I’ve noticed such, like an attitude shift in me, in my heart when I’m in taking all of this, like goodness, I guess, via Instagram, versus, you know, the things of like I want to be or things that sort of jealousy or, you know, longing in me for things of this world that don’t belong, right? Yeah. And so it was so interesting because I, it’s, it’s been slow. And it’s been happening over the past, like, two months or so. But it’s like, oh, this is like, so much more fulfilling to have these kinds of people speaking into my life via Instagram versus things that will pull me away from God. Absolutely.

    DeeDee Lake 30:53
    I just recently heard that, how a whale dies. And a whale is a mammal. So it needs air to breathe. But it lives in this water, you know, almost like it eventually it drowns is how it dies. And I’m like, How could a whale die like that, you know, but he was comparing it to, you know, us as believers, we’re here in this world, but we’re not of the world, you know, we might breathe in it, but it’s not our constant place and having to remember ourselves that who we are, you know, and but doing on social media is so funny, because people have always like, oh, there’s so much negative on there. I’m like, none on mine. There’s not and I really don’t write, because I don’t allow those kinds of people into my life. And that’s something that’s really important, goes back to boundaries. I’m so love the book boundaries. Yeah, I preach about it all the time. And when you have great boundaries, you don’t have to worry about all that junk coming in. Because it’s like, yeah, we’re gonna put it on there. If they do take it off, you know?

    Paige C. Clark 31:50
    Yeah. And I think too, this is a little bit of a tangent. But I mean, I work in social media. So it has to do with my job. But I think one thing that I talked to other small businesses about, because I get a lot of questions when I when I’m coaching, marketing, and they’re like, What do I do about negative comments? And like, bah, bah, bah. And like, it’s your space? Like your time out with a cozy space? Yeah, it’s your space, that you get to dictate what is in your space. And same with social media and your online presence, it’s yours, you can’t you are choosing to be there. And yes, like, meta owns, you know, half the world at this point. But like, you’re creating this community and this energy around what you’re doing, and you get to decide what’s in there.

    DeeDee Lake 32:41
    And you have to remember to do that. I think Jesus can read social media. So not that I think he has, you know, a laptop or anything, but you know, he knows what’s going on there. So you want to make sure that wherever you are, you’re representing who you are, no matter where it’s at, if it’s with your friends or with strangers at work, you know, in your car. It was like, I know my husband had this really neat guy that he worked with, but the guy was a little higher rank than him. And he would not allow people to curse around him. And in the army, which is very well, no, yeah, happen. But if people were going to curse, he’s like, You need to leave my office, and he would make them leave his office, no matter what rank they were, he was like, this is a cusp rezone. And I was so impressed with that, because that mean, that was probably when we were really new believers. And so you can’t do that. But I remember back to my dad telling me when I was in high school, he’s like, people will talk to you how you allow them to talk to you. So it goes back to that same thing with social media. It’s like if you stand there and let all that junk in on there. Yeah. Or in your job, even in your job. You still don’t need to have people talking like that. But you can’t talk like that, either. Right? talking trash that it’s like, you’re sitting you make expensive, just you can’t you can’t do that either have to be for the Lord or not.

    Paige C. Clark 33:52
    Yeah, and I think it’s just like, it’s these little things that we can set up in our life to create the boundaries. So we are just more set up for finding God’s glitter.

    DeeDee Lake 34:06
    My My son was funny because he didn’t want me to meet this other family, people, this group of people, I’m gonna say it was but and I was like, why? He’s like, Well, they curse and I’m like, Uh huh. Like, but you know, I could still be at a dinner with them. I don’t have to be all you know, the whole time with them, but I get to love on them. And they actually started calling me sister Diddy because I pray that was so funny. Oh, like, okay.

    Paige C. Clark 34:32
    They know I pray for them. So yeah, I love that. Um, so kind of rounding out this conversation. What is one thing and this like, I wrote this question, and then afterwards I’ve been asking other guests all this I’m like, I’m like really putting y’all on blast. But I’m just kind of go for it. But what is the biggest struggle you have when it comes to Practicing your faith

    DeeDee Lake 35:04
    is actually sitting down and reading my Bible, you know, and what makes me mad with that is that I love reading my Bible. So like, why it’s, it’s getting the noise out of your life, I think it’s really what is the case, turn off your phone, put that away from you or whatever. Because you, you need that time. It’s like a feed you that’s your food. And you got to spend time with that. And I really do struggle with that too. And that’s one of the reasons that I’ve kind of learned some other ways. Like we listen to praise music in our car, we listen to the gods, we’re, you know, when we go to sleep, or if I wake up or whatever, but just having, making sure I put those moments in there is really, it has to be intentional. It doesn’t just happen. And so I’m learning to do more and more, there’s like, gets to be an old lady,

    Paige C. Clark 35:48
    for sure. And the other thing on this is like, I don’t want anyone listening to think like, we got it down pat. Like, like, we’re not perfect, like I very much struggle to like sit down and read my read scripture, mostly because I get in my own head where I’m like, I’m more of like a study or, and a processor. So when I like sit down, I like go through this like rabbit trail I don’t like it takes me a lot longer than I intend to. And I know it’s gonna take me a lot longer, so I don’t do it.

    DeeDee Lake 36:24
    I’m a type A extreme extrovert. So to sit down and be quiet has always been a struggle for me. But as I get older, I will say it’s a lot easier now than it used to be. But definitely just making your getting quiet, you know, is probably my biggest struggle.

    Paige C. Clark 36:40
    Yeah, I mean, but we have to put the things in our life to help us where we do struggle, putting the routines and the boundaries and the reminders and the scheduler in our life. So we can remember that. Well, DeeDee, I always like to wrap up the conversations with what is one thing that someone can do, after listening to this podcast, what is one thing that they can do in their life, to help grow their faith to practice a spiritual discipline, whatever it might be, get them closer to God this week. One of the

    DeeDee Lake 37:17
    things that we did and still do, even this, this move my 51st house that I’m living in, I started praying as soon as we knew we were going to move that God would bring Christian friends and Christian mentors to us. I was and I also pray for my neighbors, you know that God would bring somebody in, it’s like, we could be coffee neighbors, you know, it’s always my thing. I was like, if you have coffee, even before I start drinking coffee, I was just like, you know, somebody that I could spend time with. And it was neat, because when we were in Korea, and you know, we had a couple mentors there, but not real strong. But that’s really where we started getting to know the Lord. And we’re like, okay, but now we’re going to Panama, we don’t know anybody. So I just asked the Lord was like, Lord, please let us have one mentor, especially for self, my husband, who’s who’s in the battle, really, because I was stay at home mom at the time. And he had to go in and do the Battle of, you know, being with the army, you know, and still standing strong as a believer. But so he, we got to Panama. And it was so neat, because we went to this church off post that we didn’t know anything about, we just went there. And it was a Panamanian, an American speaking, English speaking congregation, they had two different services. And so what we found out later, but not very long afterwards, that most of the missionaries in that area that were in the jungle, they would come for their time in the city, to our church that we went to also almost everybody in there, they knew they were military, or they retired military. But the third thing was they were teachers in the Panama Canal Zone, like teachers, like they’re just naturally mentors, you know, so just give us one minute or you give us a whole church full. That’s where we changed. We changed so much that my mom actually went to a pastor here in the States, and said, I think my daughter and son in law are in a cult. And the pastor was like, Well, what’s going on since you told him and he’s like, I wish all people were that kind of coat. I mean, it was just such an experience of those mentors speaking. I mean, it changed us completely, you know, our way of thinking the way we live. And I mean, it was just not that we were crazy wild or anything before, but it just made us more intentional. I think that’s the biggest thing. And it’s been kind of saturated with Oh, yeah, that’s a great word. Yeah, we were saturated, and loved it and still do. So we still have mentors that I just got a message two days ago from my girl, one of my great mentors that I had, she lives in Florida. She’s like, Hey, you’re doing great, you know, she saw that I’m getting my book coming out. So that that’s really neat to continue to have that. 58 So I still get encouragement,

    Paige C. Clark 39:49
    you know? Yeah. So. So for all those listening, be praying about Christian friends and Christian mentors. And if you have one in your life that you haven’t Talk to us about it. I’ll be praying for a spirit of boldness and that you do take that step

    DeeDee Lake 40:06
    out. Yeah, absolutely. That’s,

    Paige C. Clark 40:08
    that is awesome prayer. Yeah. So, Dini, thank you so much for this conversation. And you’ve mentioned this a few times, and I want to learn more. Where can people find you? And what’s this book you’re talking about?

    DeeDee Lake 40:22
    So, my website is DD lake. So it’s D E, D, E, my mom and dad love E’s and DS, I think so DD lake.com. And you can find me there. But also, you can also email me it’s D to like the number two. So v squared, basically. But my book is I started writing a book when we’re in Panama, where we’re really started changing our lives. It’s a Christian romance set in a military setting. And 30 something years ago, I started writing this and over the years, I’ve had encouragers. Well, a few years back, I met somebody and she’s now my co author. And we have seven books coming out in this rules of engagement series. I’ll show you the first one. The first one. It’s right there. It’s counting operation camouflage Christmas. The next one is actually the first in the series. This was just kind of a little beforehand, to kind of get you interested, but it follows this family and it’s great family that all five of their kids are connected to the military, somehow. We talk about all kinds of different issues that military families have just we wanted to highlight the military lifestyle as a believer. And so your podcast was exactly what I’m like, Oh, my god, is this exactly what we’re writing about? So the next week of Operation allegiance comes out on the 21st of

    Paige C. Clark 41:35
    March. That’s so exciting. Well, thank you so much, DeeDee. And everyone go buy her book for any teens in your life. Yeah.

    DeeDee Lake 41:45
    Oh, that’s for adults do. Yeah, adults, adults. So it’s clean.

    Paige C. Clark 41:50
    So, young adults. Well, we’ll put them in the young adults. Yeah, there you go. All right. Thank you so much, DeeDee. And we’ll catch you guys on the next episode. Thanks, Paige.

  • 9 to 5 Faith Podcast: Episode 8

    This is a transcript from episode 8 of the 9 to 5 Faith Podcast with Paige C. Clark.

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    Start of Podcast

    Paige C. Clark 00:36
    I’m Paige C. Clark and you’re listening to the nine to five faith podcast. After it. Hello, everyone. Welcome to this episode with my friend Kristi Lowe. Kristi, how are you doing today?

    Kristi Lowe 00:50
    Really good. Good to be here.

    Paige C. Clark 00:52
    Yes, I’m so excited. You’re here and the first real estate agent that I’ve had on this podcast, which I’m excited about. Because the the world of real estate is very foreign to me. All I know about it is I bought a house with it. So that’s, that’s about as far as my knowledge goes. So

    Kristi Lowe 01:13
    you come about like everybody else does, then whenever I find you, yes, you’re good.

    Paige C. Clark 01:19
    So that’s about as as far as my knowledge goes. But can you tell our audience a little bit more about you? Sure.

    Kristi Lowe 01:26
    So my name is Kristi Lowe, and I live in West Texas. So anybody who is familiar with Texas usually identifies us from Dallas and I live about five Viva between five and six hours west of Dallas in a town called Lubbock, Texas, it’s a great place to raise kids. And we’ve lived here for the since 1995, I think And so, when into real estate when my children went to elementary school about 12 years ago, and now I have one in college. And so it just it’s been, it’s been a blessing and a gift that I’ve been able to do to work outside the home and fell in love with it. You know, I had been a teacher before I was in real estate. And then whenever my kids went to elementary school, I said, you know, I’ve got I want to be able to pick my kids up from school, I want to be able to be at all their class parties, and I want to be able to, you know, be a room mom and be on PTA and do all that stuff, but still work outside the home. And so real estate seemed like a good fit. And it started like the way I think a whole bunch of Realtors start out as I went, I kind of like looking at houses. That kind of seems like a fun thing to do. And, and that’s where it began. And then I realized that looking at houses is like this much. It’s just a smidge of what you do. It’s actually just people and so I happen to love people too. So it’s worked out really well.

    Paige C. Clark 02:54
    And where like, where in your faith journey? Did you kind of fall into all this? Have you? Have you always been a Christian? Were you raised a Christian or?

    Kristi Lowe 03:05
    Yeah, good question. Um, so I came to faith when I was actually in like third grade. And the Lord I found the Lord at church camp, just a little, little bitty church camp one summer and my faith journey actually began very from a very early age. But I look back at some of the things that that the Lord knew were coming my way. And I know now he knew I needed the covering of the Holy Spirit. And he knew I needed his protection over my life, I just see it such as a gift that I walked out the early days of my my life, with a covering of him. And so faith has always been a real important part of my life. And it’s always just kind of been, you know, I don’t remember not being a Christian, if that makes sense. So yeah, so from the third grade on I, you know, thank goodness, I’ve been walking with Him not always great, but you know, growing and progressing. And so yeah, faith has always been an important part of that for me.

    Paige C. Clark 04:06
    Yeah. And I was gonna, I’m talking to a few teachers on here as well. And I’m like, so like, I’m chomping at the bit to talk to people who are teachers in today’s age, who are also Christians because like, I’m sure I could ask you questions about it. And it’d be like radically different than like our conversation if you’re teaching now. So

    Kristi Lowe 04:28
    big difference, man, they those teachers deserve combat pay. I mean, seriously, there are they are such a blessing and a gift and having had two kiddos in the public schools, you know, I have a daughter that’s a freshman in college now, but having a son who is still in high school, I mean, they are the frontline for the next generation and we cannot cover them enough in prayer. I mean, for real mad, mad props to them, man.

    Paige C. Clark 04:55
    Yeah, exactly. And I think to just like, you know, not only The, the battles that we’re fighting, but also the opportunity that there is to, you know, pour into the pour into the kids for for the better. So that’s why I was kind of like curious of like, where the faith kind of was sprinkled throughout. And also, it probably looks a lot different in Texas. I’m giving into a stereotype here, but okay, but it looks a lot different in Texas than in some of the other areas of the US.

    Kristi Lowe 05:27
    Um, probably you would be surprised. You know, we’re just, Texas is a beautiful homage. Like, they’re, it’s a mix of, of so much beautiful mix of cultures. And we happen to live where I where I live, we’re blessed, because we have a wonderful, we have Texas Tech University, which just brings in, I mean, people from all walks of life. And so I do get the opportunity I which is a blessing to just walk with people of all walks of life. And that to me is just super cool. That yeah, I mean, if you’re giving into a stereotype, yeah, we’re pretty, you know, still Texas, we’re still pretty conservative. And it’s,

    Paige C. Clark 06:11
    it’s a little more than at least expected or accepted. In Texas. Yes. Yes, for sure. Go with that. Yeah, for sure. So take us through, like, what a day in the life of Christie looks like. A typical day not but you know, not the outskirts of insanity. But what a typical day. I mean, maybe the outskirts of insanity is your typical day. But yeah, well,

    Kristi Lowe 06:41
    you know, real estate is a really interesting job in that you really kind of never know what you’re gonna get, I mean, some days, you kind of have an idea of what you’re going to be up to. But my day typically, you know, starts out with working with, you know, whatever, you know, for example, right now, if I’ve got, you know, two or three listings, and I’ve got two or three buyers, then you’ve got, you’re dealing with, you know, everybody from the beginning where they find their house, and they’re ready to go, and we’re under contract. And so I’m working with lenders, I’m working with appraisers, and inspectors all day. I, you I mean, I really mean it, very little of my time is actually spent looking at houses. That is the that is such a misnomer in the real estate world is that we, you know, people think we look at houses all day long. Well, I’m, I might, I might have a week where I’m looking at houses, you know, three or four days a week. But you know, I’ve got to help them get from finding the house to actually getting the keys to the house. And that’s a whole different process that people don’t, they don’t understand until you’ve walked through it a couple of times. So my daily life looks a lot like communicating with people. I talk a lot on the phone. I’m on email and text message all day long. I don’t even I don’t even look at you know, on your iPhone. It’ll show you like how long you were on your phone? Oh, yeah, I don’t even I don’t even like I don’t shame myself for that at all. It just adds it. I’ve been busy. And I’ve had a job. And so I put a gazillion miles on my car running all over town doing things today already. I’ve just, for example, had a board meeting this morning among the Lubbock Association’s board of directors and we had a meeting about something this morning. And then an hour later, I took clients that are in town to go show them around and had a closing this morning. So then after that went to the closing and then you know, so you know, you just you’re you’re moving, I’m moving all the time. Like I don’t, I don’t I may be at my desk, which actually happens to be right here. Most of the time. This is my dining room table. I work from home quite a bit. Just because we’re a mobile. It’s a mobile industry. And so I go into the office a couple of days a week and then I you know, sometimes in the mornings I’ll work from my if I can work from my computer here. I do you know, but I go into the office a couple of days a week but I’m everywhere like we don’t sit still I don’t I do not sit still very well but that and but I do quite a bit of work just on the go every day and you often you don’t know what you’ve got until you know you wake up that morning.

    Paige C. Clark 09:31
    Yes. And understand that.

    Kristi Lowe 09:33
    Then Then usually in the afternoons, it’s usually mid morning whenever people go, Hey, we saw this house, you know, and that’s the thing about real estate is that people will text you and go hey, this house hit the market today. We’d really like to go look at it. So I just have to be flexible. You know I need to be able to go whenever somebody needs to see a house I go see it. You know, we go see a house my family knows thank goodness I have a sweet husband who is so supportive. And, you know, if I need to go show a house at 630, I’ll leave kitchen you know, I’ll leave dinner on the stove and then you know, or they’ll make a grilled cheese sandwich and and we make it work at our house, but it you just have to be the biggest thing is I’ve got to be flexible.

    Paige C. Clark 10:18
    Yeah, yep, I could use a little bit more of that discipline in my, it’s to be a little bit more flexible. And I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, but I feel like a lot of your work isn’t necessarily done with your coworkers, but it’s done with kind of these outside third party, you know, your clients, but then also like what you were saying the lenders and everything like that, which I think throws in kind of a different dynamic when it comes to like being intentional in your relationships with them.

    Kristi Lowe 10:52
    Absolutely. For sure. One of the biggest obstacles I as a young person had to learn when I first went into real estate, was, like I said, at the top of this is that I thought this was going to be about showing houses. And what I realized is that it’s just a service industry where we’re helping people. And I had to learn very quickly that that my relationships with other real estate agents, and appraisers, and inspectors, and, you know, your plumbers and electricians, and roofers, oh my goodness, those are the people that make me that keep my job running smoothly. And I had to learn, as I’m telling on myself here, I like to tell I’d rather tell on myself than you find out from somebody else. I’ll just tell myself, man, when I came into real estate, I was a little firecracker. Like I was just like honoree and, and I had to learn like I, I’ve got to, I’ve got to keep in mind that that my relationship with people is more important than anything, and not not at the expense of my clients. What’s in the best interest of my clients? Don’t Don’t misunderstand me, it’s that I used to just get real fiery, like, I’d be real fiery, like, No, this is the right way to do it, or black and white, very black and white, like, No, this is right or wrong. And you have you get to a point where you just realize like, we’re going to find a compromise, we’re going to find a solution, we just have to stay calm and work together. And so one of the best things that real estate has done for me is it’s just kind of grown me up. And that I I’ve learned that working together is you nine times out of 10 you can find a solution, if everybody just keeps their wits about them. So yeah, getting to work with people. I mean, I love it, I embrace it, I It’s always different real estate’s always a challenge. It’s never the same, you never have the same transaction twice.

    Paige C. Clark 12:49
    So how does your faith show up in what you do?

    Kristi Lowe 12:57
    Every day, every day. On the front side of it, I when I’m working with clients, you know, there’s times where I sit down with someone who’s going through a divorce. And those are hard. It’s hard because you’re walking with suit through some you’re walking with, with someone through something that’s really, really hard. You know, you have people that have lost family members, and they’re selling their estate, and that’s hard. So my faith has come into it in a lot of ways. First of all, from a, just that Jesus is my moral compass. He’s where he’s my reference point. So when I have to make a decision about whether something is right or wrong, I have to look to him to go okay, is this okay? Am I going to be okay? If I if you were in the room with me, Would you be okay with the decisions I’m making? In the words I’m saying? I think that when it comes to my faith, I have to trust him. Because, you know, in real estate, we don’t, you know, there is no salary. It’s you know, whatever that phrase is like, eat what you kill. I don’t like that phrase. But that’s the only thing I can think of to try to explain what I’m, I’m thinking about is that it’s, you know, whatever clients you have, and whatever they close, that’s how you get paid. There’s no salary, there’s no guarantee here, right? And so my faith has had to come into play and trusting that he’s going to provide for us and he’s going to provide for my family and I don’t I don’t I well, I don’t put my eggs. I don’t what is it? You don’t like

    Paige C. Clark 14:37
    put all your eggs in one basket? Yeah,

    Kristi Lowe 14:38
    they exited by No, no, no, no, no, I learned a long time ago. No, no, no, you don’t do that. We just we have to be very disciplined and trusting that he is going to provide the people that that he wants me to help. And my when I see my faith show up in day to day life, and I hope I’m answering your question you Yeah, it’s, it’s that I have to trust that whatever comes before me that day that he’s already there, he already knows what’s going on, you know, whenever I find out that, you know, a house is eaten up with termites or that, you know, the, the foundation has washed out underneath the house, you know, he already knew. I mean, like he knew that whenever, you know, before I ever saw the house. Yeah. And so I have to trust him and go, Okay, what are you saying here? Where are you? And I do that whether my clients are believers or not, I mean, I help people of all walks of life, you know, I don’t care if you’re purple, or, you know, whatever, it doesn’t matter to me. But my job is to represent the Lord and walk accordingly. No matter what comes in that way. Does that make sense? Yeah, it

    Paige C. Clark 15:54
    does. And I think too, one of the things that, as you were talking is just one thing I’ve been working through too is God being in the little things. And I think that there’s a tendency to like, over spiritualize our relationship with God and like, beings. I’m reading this book right now. And it’s like, like, Do you only go to God about the big things? Like, do you only like, sit as sit at his feet over like, the big spiritual things, or you don’t go to him? Because you’re like, oh, it’s like, not that big of a deal. But like, when it comes to like termites and a house, it’s like, oh, no, God, God’s already there. Even though it’s not this big, theological, spiritual, fancy, sacred kind of thing. You know, God is even in the small things.

    Kristi Lowe 16:48
    But when I’ll see him show up, it’s really, you know, I get to just kind of, sometimes I just get to see it happen. Like, I’ll, I’ll have friends that are believers, or you know, that I’m working with a client. And they’re like, well, here’s what we’ve been praying for, you know, this is, and when I get to see him provide that, you know, a friend of mine looked and I’m, and I’m pretty patient, like, I mean, like, it may take you two years to find your house, I don’t care. Like, if it takes two years, it’s your house, you gotta live there. So I don’t know, it takes. And I mean, I had a friend that looked for a really long time, they, they knew what they wanted, they had a vision for what they felt like God had, was calling them to and what they really wanted. And I think what’s beautiful is that the Lord loves us. But like a good daddy, sometimes he just gives us what are like, He gives us good things. And I watched this sweet friend of mine, you know, my clients are also my friends and my friends are my clients, which is such a gift. But you know, they they got this house that they had really had in their mind. And it was the right price. And it was the right in it eat. I mean, it had the right. It had the right front porch, and it had I mean, it was just perfect. And and when I get to see him meet people that intimately. Or whenever I you know, and in recent years, we’ve had so much like that frenetic, frenetic, sorry, just that frenzy of, of, oh my gosh, real estate for the past couple of years has been insane. Yeah. And, you know, we’d have 15 or 20 offers before, like, noon, on a house. And, you know, I remember like, there were a couple of times where, you know, I would sit with my clients and their shit, you know, they’re sifting through, you know, three or four or five, sometimes 10 cash offers and how do you know, you know, like, how do you know which one to choose? Right? Then you’ll see what what’ll happen though is they’ll just like something in on Oh, go I think it’s I think we’re supposed to go with this one. And you just, I get to I just get to be like a vessel here. Like I don’t see myself as anything other than God just uses me to help bring about things that he needed. He needs Yeah, and so it’s really it’s really fun getting to watch him show up in like little video intimate ways that oh my gosh, I never thought that you would show up like that. And then he does but he loves us and He cares about us. Yeah, why wouldn’t me

    Paige C. Clark 19:24
    Yeah, and I think that’s that concept is probably not talked about today because you can like if you push it a little bit too far you get like prosperity gospel stuff and yeah, I know you go down that down that route. But one thing that like you hit on is like, like God is our Father and like, in this book I was reading. It’s what book are you reading? It’s it’s cosh. Pray like monks live like fools. I might have that backwards. It might be live like fools prayer like most anyway, Okay, so it’s all about prayer and like this, like this book, it’s just like given me some, like real nuggets to chew on. And he was saying, like, even after, like him as a dad, the author as a dad went out and had like, a really hard day. And like, you know, just kind of spiritually kind of toil some day, and he goes home. And he hangs out with his kids and his kids say, Hey, can we go get some ice cream? And like, What joy it brought him to say yes to go give his kids ice cream. Yeah. And like, that is the joy that God wants to delight in us. When we asked for a wraparound porch with this perfect Hi, like, you know, like, we can go to God with those dreams. And I that’s really cool that you get to, like, observe that every so

    Kristi Lowe 20:51
    there’s things I get to see. I mean, I, I will have people tell me things that they’re praying about, or it, you know, you the happy ones are awesome. Yeah, it’s in the ones where it’s difficult. Or whenever somebody is financially in a situation like a dire financial situation. And, you know, we’re where I’ve seen God’s show up and down to like, the penny on how much they needed to avoid bankruptcy or to avoid a short sale. You know, it’s just, he is he is alive and active. And he is in every aspect of our lives. If we, if we allow it, like if we’ll, if we’ll look for him, and I’m with you, I don’t believe in prosperity gospel, and I’m not going to share with you what I get to. Yeah, like, he’s there. He’s so and he’s so intimately involved in, in the day to day aspects of our lives. And, you know, whenever I’m, let me just be real, I’ll, I’ll be real clear. There are some agents that I love to work with, like, you’ll get, you know, like, whenever and after you’ve done this for, you know, 12 years, you know, you get to know a lot of agents. And there are some agents in town that I just, oh, my gosh, I that’s the joy to work with them. And then you have agents that you’re like, Oh, you’re kind of hard to work with, you know, but that’s where that’s where he gets to show me, you know, I get to bear the fruit of patients and I get to practice, practice being kind and those things that he has given a Holy Spirit and me to do, and it shows up on a day to day basis whenever we just give him the opportunity and the space to do it.

    Paige C. Clark 22:35
    Yeah, I think the the relationship and friendship between Realtors is really interesting to me.

    Kristi Lowe 22:42
    Yeah, it’s like, the thing we don’t talk about is that we actually have realtor friends. Yeah, no, we did. Yeah. So

    Paige C. Clark 22:47
    like, we’re in the process of selling one of our properties right now. And when we were going through and like looking at offers our realtor went back to the the clients who were who submitted offers and said, like, Hey, this is what we’re getting back. And I said to my husband, I said, How do they know he’s not lying about this?

    Kristi Lowe 23:11
    Look? It’s because we’ve worked with them before. Right? And I

    Paige C. Clark 23:15
    just like, how do they know? Like, yes, so don’t get me wrong. My realtor is one of my close friends. And one of my best friend’s husband is our realtor. And you know, they’re a joy and very trustworthy to work with, but just like that, like little devil’s advocate in my brain was like, they’re like, like, how do you?

    Kristi Lowe 23:36
    Yeah, in you know, I mean, that that was when I said earlier that I had to learn, like, relationships are important. It’s that I’m going to work with you again, like we’re gonna and I think someone who is either in sales or in any kind of an environment. Well, I mean, we have to work with people all the time and in whatever, whatever you’re called to work in. Mine is real estate. And I’m going to work with that agent again, like I’m going to work at and I hope I’m going to work with this client again, like I hope I don’t work with you just once I want to work with you again, but I want you to work with me. And so it’s not that I don’t do my job and that I don’t advocate for my clients. It’s that at the end of the day, I need you to know that I’m a trustworthy person. And that just like your your real estate agent probably did is they they know each other and like I know that you know Sherry is a godly woman I know where she goes to church, we get to know other agents and and that has been probably in the past three to five years I’ve I’ve had the joy of getting to know some of other agents in my my world and they have come to be some of my dearest friends because they they are the only people who truly understand what I deal with. On a daily basis, right? And as Realtors we don’t typically talk to our clients or we shouldn’t probably about like the stresses of our world, right? And we need realtor friends, like, you need teacher friends, if you’re a teacher, you need firefighter friends, if you’re a firefighter, I need somebody who, who truly understands the ins and outs. Well, I have dear real estate friends that I can call and go, you know, and go, What do you think like, how do I how would you do this? Yeah, and having those people, especially godly ones, and I’m fortunate, I have a, I have an office. Man, I tell you what, like, I’m lucky. I know. I’m lucky that where I work, I’ve got incredible people of faith in my office alongside me that I can reach out to and go. Okay, how do you how would you go about doing this? Yeah. Because even if you’ve been doing it for a while, I mean, I’ve been doing it for 12 years, but you know, there’s still things you run into that you’re like, Whoa, I hadn’t seen that in a lot long time. So, you know, you need your you need friends. Yeah,

    Paige C. Clark 26:04
    people. You need a community and not only for, like, community for community sake, but also like, I’m sure, you know, ethical and moral questions and Oh, my my husband’s a lawyer. And luckily, there’s a the bar has a Legal Hotline, like an ethics hotline. Ooh.

    Kristi Lowe 26:29
    Yeah, we did. Yeah, we did. You’re like, oh, double click on that. My My realtor friends. She says, oh, loan a double click on that. That’s my new. That’s my new favorite. I’m like, Ooh, let’s double click Yeah, we do we have a we have a hotline, we can call just like y’all do. And your husband does, too. I mean, yeah, like, sometimes you’ve got to call and go. I don’t, I don’t know what’s right here. Yeah, I mean, like, it gets where we see things. And this is what’s really, really hard is where if I am if my moral, ethical, you know, like what I believe is right and wrong. And my clients, you know, isn’t the same. I would say, like, that’s been probably when I was thinking about this, um, start. I’m gonna back up for a second. Yeah, I was thinking about talking to you today. One of the things I thought about was that some of the hardest transactions I’ve had to deal with were people that, you know, that phrase equally yoked. Right. And we talked about that in marriage, but in relationships in general, especially in a something like this, that’s transactional. And there’s ethics and morals that are tied to

    Paige C. Clark 27:38
    a people people lie all the time. Yeah. Or they stretched the truth.

    Kristi Lowe 27:43
    And I have, I’ve come to the place where I have to be okay with if you know, if somebody is not a right fit for me as a, like, if I’m, if let me just say it this way, if they are horrible, scummy people, I don’t want to work with them. Right? I know, that sounds terrible. But like, I don’t want to put myself in a position where I’m gonna have to compromise ethically, or morally, what you know, is right or wrong, especially, like whenever, you know, the racial tensions that we’ve all been dealing with, you know, globally for years now. You know, racism is a terrible, horrible issue that, that, you know, if you have a client that has said to you, you know, I’m not going to sell to someone of this nationality, or whenever you’re in someone’s home, and they say, Well, do you think that they are of this nationality? Well, I don’t care. Like, right, it does not matter to me, but you can’t you can’t discriminate based on someone’s race. Right. So that is a I mean, and I’m kind of analysis. I’ll just tell them, I’ll be like, does that matter? Yeah. I’m like, if you don’t like me, because I called that. Nope, sorry. But, ya know, and so I have, I have found that, knowing who I am, and knowing what I believe, is, is gonna cost me at times because I could, you know, look the other way or swallow or swing into it, and that’s not right. And it’s not worth, like, it’s not ever worth a commission check for that. Does that make you understand what Oh, yeah. I think not worth it. Yeah, I

    Paige C. Clark 29:30
    think one of the most poignant and under estimated or undervalued things that business owners can do, or, you know, people who work in a business is to tell the client or the customer, you’re not a right fit. You’re not a right fit.

    Kristi Lowe 29:52
    And I’ve and you have to do that. You know, I I will say I don’t I don’t have to do that a lot. Yeah, because I get along with people or I try to get along with people. But I can I have I have had to fire clients. I mean, yeah, just it’s going to that’s going to add that’s not real. I would hate that. But I’ve had to, you know, I had somebody trying to commit insurance fraud one time, and I was like, I don’t think I’m the right fit for you. Yeah, I was like, I think maybe you could be better served with another agent. I mean, yeah, it’s rare. You don’t have to do that. Very Right. Thank goodness. I mean, I can count on one hand, the number of times that’s ever happened. But the Yeah, I mean, if somebody’s trying to commit insurance fraud, I’m like, No, sorry. I’m not gonna look the other way on that. Right. So yeah, but other than that, you know, really, and truly, I what I believe is that God puts before me the people that he’s called me to work with. I trust him for that. And that, that has been, that’s where I’ve, I’ve found so much peace is because I don’t I don’t worry. I mean, I think we have people who who do a lot of striving and like really trying to like, I gotta get a new client, or I gotta get that client or I gotta get, and I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. God’s gonna provide those people for me.

    Paige C. Clark 31:18
    Yeah. And I think too, like in the business world, the businesses that aren’t willing to say no, to a customer or a client should probably have their eyes set on the wrong thing. Yes, I would. Because if it’s just a money making opportunity, like at the end of the day, yes, we all need to make money. Like, of course, you need money to live, like, but if you’re not looking out for the humanity in this situation, then like, you’re, you’re you might be acting outside of moral guidelines. And if you’re a Christian, you know, kind of what, what kind of higher calling were called to live out.

    Kristi Lowe 32:03
    Right. Well, and I think it comes down to a matter of, you’re putting a commission check above what is in the best interest of a human, and that’s never okay. Yeah, yeah. It’s so

    Paige C. Clark 32:17
    important. Yeah. So deep. Deep breath, deep breath.

    Kristi Lowe 32:24
    We just jumped right in. They did. I don’t do superficial conversation very well, though. You know, I’m, I’d much rather have meat and potatoes, then. Yeah, yeah, I love it.

    Paige C. Clark 32:36
    But I think too, like, this is the stuff that is very real, and is a hard reality for a lot of Christian business owners and Christian, like workers out in the workforce, if you are out in the workforce, like, these are things that you’re having to come across. And, you know, I don’t get me wrong, like, I’ve never been the decision maker for, you know, multimillion dollar company or anything like that. So I can only speak to what I know and what my experience is. But I also think that the world would look radically different if Christian business owners and Christian workers in the workplace, lived out

    Kristi Lowe 33:22
    their faith. Yes, absolutely. 100%

    Paige C. Clark 33:25
    I agree. Because I also I also leaned back on there’s that there’s that one stat of like, if if all Christians tithed 10%. Like, there would be no more global poverty, like the churches would be funded 10 times over or something ridiculous like that. So like, one, hopefully, that’s a little conviction for anyone listening to that, right. Like that right in. But, but on the on the flip side, like it’s not just about like what God calls us to do, but how he calls us to live in our life.

    Kristi Lowe 34:06
    Yep, I agree. For sure. So

    Paige C. Clark 34:09
    let’s pivot a little bit into we talked about how you interact with your contractors maybe is the best for like your contractors that you work with, and then also your clients that you work with, and talk a little bit about you and how you maintain and continue your relationship with God. throughout your workday.

    Kristi Lowe 34:35
    Hmm, well, I think it starts in the morning, it betters, it better start before 8am Because at 8am Like the phone is gonna be ringing and people are people will text you at all hours of the day, by the way. Oh my goodness. So for me, it’s got to start early in the morning. I’m typically an early bird anyways, I’m usually the first one awake in my house. For me it’s it is a consistent spent time with the Lord. It is about meeting with him spending time in Scripture. And in prayer. I do and I’m not plugging anything here. But what works for me is I’ve been this is my second year through going through the Bible recap with Tara Lee Cobble. I know she’s great man. And, and, and I love it because I’m growing in knowledge of the Bible, but then I see God’s so, like, in such different you know, we we were in numbers this morning or finishing at numbers. And, you know, I was reading something about Moses this morning. And I was like, Oh, I know what it was it was talking about the, the, you know, people who like, you know, if you accidentally murder someone, this is totally off real estate. So no, go right. But like, if you accidentally murdered someone that they had set up these like, refuge cities, so that like the that whoever accidentally got killed, that his family couldn’t come kill you, you know, like it. And so like, there was something about that. And I thought that, Oh, wow. That’s how the Lord provided for those people that, you know, they weren’t shamed, or you know, or put to death, but that the Lord just provided a refuge for those people. Because I can’t imagine like, can you imagine like, I can’t imagine someone who has inadvertently killed someone like, what you would have to live with. And then I thought about like that they would have a place to go and that God provided that and so like, in my quiet times, my my whole thing is, I want to keep learning. Like, it’s not about the learning knowledge not but it’s about how am I seeing you show up Lord, and just those little ways and because the more I see him show up in little ways in the Bible, the more I see him show up in little ways in my life. And so in the mornings, when I when I start out my day, that way, it’s got it’s got to start out that that way, otherwise, I’m worthless. And I can’t be trusted with my my words. As we say, at our house, there comes a point in the day where it’s like, whoo, I can’t be trusted with my words.

    Paige C. Clark 37:05
    Like that. But

    Kristi Lowe 37:07
    then, you know, so mine’s definitely a morning thing. But then throughout the day, I’m a, I’m a podcast listener, I’m a podcaster. So I spend my days continuing, I listen to music, music is on in my house, most most of the time, I listen to music. And so I just have a praise and worship list that I’ve curated over the years, and my daughter loves music like I do, and she’ll text me and go, Oh, mom, here’s a new one, you know, you need this. And so add it to my rotation. And so music is for me worship time of worship. I don’t think you worship just on Sunday mornings, right, and a few. I think worship happens anytime we surrender, and we give God glory. And a lot of times that happens in my kitchen, you know, that happens whenever I sing a little louder than my family likes, and you know that I just give him praise and glory. But yeah, it’s just a daily, I think it’s I think for me, it’s gotta be man, I can’t go very long. I gotta, I gotta keep him pretty front and center. Otherwise, I will stray way too fast. So yeah, stay in there.

    Paige C. Clark 38:13
    Yeah. And how do you kind of balance and I use that word really loosely, because I had a gal say, like, you don’t balance anything, you just find harmony. And I was like, Oh, I kind of like that. So but how do you how do you incorporate, you know, business, faith, family and, and Ms podcast or your new podcast? Like, how do you kind of maintain some kind of equilibrium with with all those things, if you can?

    Kristi Lowe 38:45
    Um, how do I maintain balance? I, I’ve recently, you know, sometimes I think God will just kind of give you a word to chew on for a little bit. And here in a couple of weeks, I don’t know when you’re going to publish this one here in a couple of weeks, I’m speaking to a group about rest. Okay. And so God, and I’ve been spending quite a bit of time talking about rest. And one of the things that he has shown me is that rest begins well before we ever need it. And rest is about putting first things first. And we’re not going to rest and we’re not going to have harmony, balance, whatever word you want to call it. If we’re not putting first things first. And that’s not just about having a quiet time in the morning. I mean, that’s important. But it’s about what are the what are my what are my priorities, and when that gets out of whack. You’re not going to have balance in harmony if your priorities aren’t ordered. And so for me, it’s about making sure that I’m not being drugged by the whims of somebody without knowing them. What the rest of my world? You know, there’s a lot on my plate. All right, there’s a lot on everybody’s plate. I’m not the only person with a lot on their plate. But it’s about having my priorities in such an order that I know, what am I going to respond to first, you know, text messages don’t get responded to before I’ve had my quiet time. I don’t, you know, I gotta have I try. This is just what works with at our house. I try to not start working until after my family leaves for the day. So I still have my husband and my son at the house. My daughter’s in the dorms and I tried to not start working until after they’re out so that I can at least look them in the eyeballs once walk eyeballs, and because I could work 24/7 Yeah. Like I really could. And sometimes, sometimes you have to, and sometimes there are days where it’s really, really wild. That I think it’s about having for me, it’s about that’s a boundary like I try to wait till they’re out the door. Okay. But then I also try to make sure that at the end of the day, I stopped working now say this last night I had to work after, after, after dinner and I try really hard though to you know, if it’s not, you know, somebody’s house flooding, right? Can we you know, that email can wait until tomorrow morning, right? And learning how to have a boundary of of knowing when it’s time to cut it off for the day, because I mean, let’s just be real. I really need to watch some March Madness. Okay. And so basketball in the evenings right now was gonna be during the daytime too. But like, conference championships and basketball, want to watch basketball with my family. That’s what we like to do. And, and so it’s about having a boundary of knowing like, Okay, I’m gonna, I’m cutting off tonight. Like, I gotta, you gotta have a cut out you boundaries are crazy important in this business? Yeah, otherwise you’re gonna be, you’re gonna be working incessantly. You’ll never stop. Yeah, have to stop. You have to? Yeah,

    Paige C. Clark 42:09
    for sure. And one thing our pastor at my church says is, you show you show what you love and show what you prioritize in life with your time and your time, meaning your money, so your time and your money, like, what what? Where are you investing your time and your money, and that is where you’ll find your heart. And so, you know, it’s really cool that you’ve, you know, set up those boundaries for your time that you know,

    Kristi Lowe 42:42
    to in the started a podcast, you and I were talking about this before we started recording as I started a podcast about six months ago, that is unrelated to real estate. And it was definitely something God put on my heart to do it. It’s just a, you know, sometimes I think we talk a lot in our house about knowing what the Lord has assigned us to do. And in knowing the assignments He’s given us, but being open to receive whatever it is that he’s calling us to do next. And this was definitely something he had he prompted me to do. So that’s kind of been a little bit of a stretching season learning how to do something new but then that’s been fun. But at the same time, knowing that if he’s called you into it, he’s going to provide what you need. But where were we going with this? What was

    Paige C. Clark 43:34
    the time money and time was what I was

    Kristi Lowe 43:38
    we you can tell like if you look at your your calendar, you can tell what your affections are, look at your calendar it’ll show you where your affections really lie you know your calendar your calendar in your in your pocket book for sure. Yeah, pastors pastors smart dude.

    Paige C. Clark 43:58
    He he likes to call those throw punches and it’s just like the right the truth at the right time in that set in the right way is is the good throw punch. But yeah, I have my schedule sitting on my desk I like having a physical schedule in addition to my work one because my brain I have way too many calendars but I have the schedule and I like it because it has a time slot because I know some people like don’t like the calendars that have the time slot. I used to be one of those people and then I like I don’t want to say grew up but like I became like an adult and I’m like okay, like I actually see the value in this and now I try to fill every slot of my day. Okay, not to always be busy but to account for everything I want to account for that day. So I want sent my friend a screenshot of like my to do list and I was like, Oh hey, like you’re on the top of my to do list but all So like, at the bottom, it was like, take a shower, wash your hair, like, I was like, please don’t judge me, I have, you know, take a shower on my to do list. So make sure to account for time for that. Because otherwise I wouldn’t, yes,

    Kristi Lowe 45:17
    no, we’re terrible at not putting in our on our calendar, what we actually want to do. And that’s what I was talking about a minute ago where I was like, I could work 24/7, it didn’t mean it’s going to be productive stuff. Because unless you’re putting on your calendar, things that actually matter. And like move the needle, you’re gonna be you’re gonna spin your wheels, or you’re just going to exhaust yourself. And so, but that’s why you’ve got to have in, even if you’re penciling in like, March Madness with the hubs. I mean, like, right, I’m fine with that eight to 10pm, boom. I mean, the other is, I think that in an in, I work in an inconsistent environment, I don’t have an eight to five, I don’t have a nine, you know, like, but I can tell you that I’ve learned over the years that I have seasons that are slower, and seasons that are busier. So my calendar may look a little different than yours. If you have a nine to five, write my calendar in between, you know, end of February, beginning of March until July, August. I mean, you know, don’t ask me to clean out a closet them. Okay. Yeah. But you know, from September, October, I get some weekends, where it’s like, Oh, hey, look, this is what this is what people do on Saturdays, whenever they don’t have to go show houses. I mean, you know, like, look at me and my yoga pants and messy bun. I mean, like, that’s, that’s the great thing is that I’ve learned that I’ve got to give myself grace. And if there is anyone else in real estate listening to this, you’re gonna have to give yourself Grace during the seasons when it is crazy busy. You’re going to have to know, like, my sweet and I really mean it. My husband is like, crazy supportive of me. And, you know, he knows, like, from March until July whenever it’s crazy, like, I may work all weekend. Yeah, I mean, I may have to show houses and I may have to hold an open house or I may have to, you know, weekends tend to be pretty nutty, especially and that’s when people are moving in. They’re active. It’s like they get outside and they’re like, hey, maybe we should move. I swear there is a phenomenon Yellin another phenomenon here and I do it. Here’s the trade secret this this is it. It’s the second weekend that it is warm outside. Okay. The first weekend it’s warm outside. Everybody’s just happy that it’s warm. Now this might just be West Texas. I don’t know. That second weekend. When it’s warm outside. i It is like phenomenon. My my phone rings like that Monday. It’s like Hey, I think we’re gonna sell our house. Hey, I think we’re gonna buy a house. I swear. I mean, yes thing so like right now like I got houses popping up all over the place because everybody’s it’s starting to get warm. Yeah, it’s like,

    Paige C. Clark 48:12
    Oh, see? That’s like springtime in Arizona. When all we call them snowbirds. Yes. And it’s all those snowbirds who come down from Canada, Idaho, Minnesota, Michigan, y’all I could put together the United States of America with all the license plates I saw out here, but like we have because we have spring training out here. Yes. And then we also

    Kristi Lowe 48:38
    you live Do you live in an era where part of Arizona like Phoenix Metro? Okay, we have family on the west side of Phoenix. Gotcha. A Rozo are ours. I can’t pronounce it ours a Orozco. Do you know I’m talking to my dote or Hosszu

    Paige C. Clark 48:58
    I think I do. I think I it’s like a RR O Z. Yeah, that I don’t know how to gather there. We get cut. Hey, cuz there you go. But like it’s springtime, and Phoenix is always like super, super lovely out. And I even stepped outside today. I was like, whoo, I feel summer in the air like summer is just starting to, like, slowly creep in. But like when summer hits and that it’s like actually our quiet time. But like when spring hits people are like, Oh, it’s so nice here. I’m like, Just you wait, just wait till your

    Kristi Lowe 49:35
    shoes melt. In July.

    Paige C. Clark 49:38
    Yeah, that actually happens. Like, I remember. We were broken down on the side of the road. One one year in the summer. It was the hottest day of the year on record. It was it was like 121 Like it was ridiculously hot out and my husband’s car broke down. And we were We’re standing in a parking lot. And I was wearing just some sandals and I feel the heat from the ground coming through my sandals. And I just like kept picking up my feet. I was like, please don’t melt my shoes like that. That is like the last thing that I need right now is my shoes to be stuck to the parking lot on the hottest day of the year. Yeah, not okay.

    Kristi Lowe 50:21
    That’s fine. Um, yeah, Texas isn’t a bad place to live. I’m just saying if anybody you know, new if you need to move here, I’m French. I know really good.

    Paige C. Clark 50:30
    Noted. Christian. Hello, everyone. Um, well, what I was gonna say about kind of the seasonality, I think it’s just like, also stepping up into that awareness of like, being able to communicate that to your people around you. If you know if you’re married, communicating that to your spouse, if you’re single communicating that to like, your community, or your friends who are there supporting you, like, Hey, I might be a little Am I like yep, right now. Like, personally, January, February, March are all insane for me. And so I told all my friends, like, hey, not going to, like I have a ton of time to talk to you. But then like for work, October, November, December are really busy for me. And so I’m just like, hey, like, might be a little wacko, those months, I might not be super busy. But I might be like, a little busy up here instead. So just having that awareness of being able to communicate that to like your people, I think that’s like, huge.

    Kristi Lowe 51:36
    Well, it’s taken some time. I mean, you just being in real estate, where you don’t ever know like, am I going to have one closing this week? Or? Or this month? Or am I going to have like, you know, for you just don’t know. So that that kind of, that’s kind of a roller coaster that new agents I’ve found, really, it takes them a long time to figure out like, What the You got to get off that roller coaster? Because you can’t I mean, if like, if you’re just riding on it, trying to like waiting for, like, oh, my gosh, I’ve got to have another closing, I gotta, you know, it’s like an adrenaline or like, drug junkie or something, I need to hit man, right? Like, no, no, no, you’re just getting used to the irregularity of real estate, getting used to that you’re gonna have, you know, for clients, one, you know, one month, and then you might, you might not have a closing for a month or two. I mean, I’m blessed in that I’ve been doing this long enough, I have a consistent work life, I would say, I would say I work consistently, I have some seasons that are busier than others. But you know, if you’re newer in business, as you know, you, you may not have a closing for three months, you know, you may, you may go for a long while. And what’s very difficult as a new agent, is that we start looking to the left and our right and other agents around us. And I’ll tell you, that has been, you can’t look at other you can’t look to the left in the right. You can’t compare your life and what your clients and what you’re doing to another to another agent, because they may have been doing it for 25 years, you know, they may have, they may have two decades in the business compared to you. And so that’s definitely something new agents I see a lot of is like you just have to, it just takes time. Yeah, it takes time.

    Paige C. Clark 53:32
    Yeah, I always like to use the comparison of like a duck in water. Because like, well, they might look all like regal and calm on the top of the surface, like underneath. Their feet are like paddling back and forth. And I’m like, you know, you never see kind of the ugly side of these other people not saying like, they’re mean or bad people but like, you don’t see the hardship. You don’t see the difficulty. You don’t know what their home life is like, you don’t know what their spiritual life is, like, you know, the rest of that could be in turmoil because their feet are under the water. But on the top, they’re all calm and cool. And

    Kristi Lowe 54:06
    yeah, well in and here’s the thing gonna tell you the other secret. Yes, I do. Okay, so I’m all about secrets today, man. I’m spilling. I’m spilling I’m sorry, real in the beans. I’m spilling the beans today. The other thing is that, you know, there’s always gonna be a top agent in town. There’s gonna be somebody who’s number one, and they’re like, I was number one. I have absolutely no desire to be number one. It’s not that I don’t want to be excellent and do my job with excellence. It’s that I know what it’s going to cost. It’s going to come at a cost. And if you want to be number one, go for it, man. You can have my spot I don’t. I have I have zero desire, because it’s going to require more than I want to give. And if we want to go back certain we’re going to circle back on this It talks about rest. And we talked about boundaries. And we talked about having First things first and priorities. And I have learned me, I have a bandwidth, you have a bandwidth, there’s only so much we have that we can give. And I can’t be the number one agent and be a good wife, and be there for and be present. Present. There’s a difference. I could be home and not be present. Yeah. And it’s not worth that to me. Because it was going to come at a cost, it’s going to come at the cost of being able to be with my family be with and serve on Sunday mornings, or, you know, do like I just got back from a mission trip. I can’t I can’t go do that stuff. That’s, that’s my goal. So is there anything wrong with being the number one agent in town? Absolutely not. There’s not one thing wrong with that. Right? And if God has equipped you, and and that’s what that for me? Rusty Lowe? I’m totally okay. With doing exactly what God puts before me. And knowing that it is totally enough. Yeah. And that’s been that is it? That’s freeing whenever, you know, somebody can say it’s okay to be number two. You don’t have? I mean? Does that make sense? You don’t? Yeah, yeah. Tip number one.

    Paige C. Clark 56:27
    I think too, like, we live in a society where a lot of people attach their identity to a lot of different things. And then especially in the I work in a heavily corporate company. And a lot of people attach their identity to what they do and like, how high they can rank and, and for me, the things that I do are either pragmatic, meaning, put food on the table, provide for my family, or it’s doing something because God called me into it, ie this podcast, do I have time to do this podcast? Arguably, no, but I’m doing it because that is what I feel like God has called me to step into, and, and when we are able to do those things and seek those things, and God is able to put those things in on our path. I think success means a little bit less, in my opinion. It’s where your

    Kristi Lowe 57:28
    focus is. Yeah. Like what’s like, what is your definition of success? Yeah. And mine is not being the number one agent. Mine is my definition is, did I serve the people that God put in front of me? With excellence with integrity? Did I do the very best I could for them? Whenever that will, whoever whether God puts 10 people in front of me this year, or 40? Like whatever that number is, did I serve them? Well, if I did, that’s my definition of success did I keep because whenever I think it’s a matter of what our focus is, like, whenever we’re and I keep putting my hands all over, sorry. So is there Dr. Us on on YouTube too? Because yeah,

    Paige C. Clark 58:15
    this will be on the youtube so if you want to see the hand gestures, just okay, you can I talk? I do too.

    Kristi Lowe 58:23
    And I’ll say y’all a lot sorry. But it’s a matter of what your focus is your focus it is it is truly a matter of what am I focusing on? And whenever we put Jesus between us and whoever we’re serving, that’s going to change the way we view success. Did we serve them the way he had called us to serve them? And if I did that, then I one man

    Paige C. Clark 58:50
    I love that I wish like we could just like Mike drop and there but I have one more question for you. But it’s my favorite question which is what is one thing our audience our listeners out there can implement into their life that’s a faith building practice or discipline to help them move that one step closer to God

    Kristi Lowe 59:10
    came in to make this I’m gonna make this specific for people who are probably in more of a sales industry. Yeah,

    Paige C. Clark 59:17
    let’s, let’s have it.

    Kristi Lowe 59:21
    And and that is that I’m pausing here for a moment, because we’ve kind of talked a little bit about it. That I would I would go back to that, my piece and the way that if you want to operate from a place of peace, in real estate or in any other sales position, it comes from where you place your trust. And if you trust him to provide I have on my screen on my phone, Psalm 118. You It says, hang on just second because I have it right here. It says she, and I changed it. And it says she confidently trust the Lord to take care of her. And that is Psalm 112, seven sorrows, Psalm 112, seven. But without putting trust in between ourselves and our job, we’re not going to find peace. And we’re always going to be striving, we’re always going to be it kind of like you talked about that duck. And I would just, I would tell whoever I could tell every single real estate agent that is going to provide everything you need. You have to trust him with putting before you exactly what you need. So for me, it’s daily surrender to do I trust you with what you’ve set before me? Do I trust You? Me? Do I trust the Lord? And that that has become the practice that that has changed the way I walk? And that has made it where I can walk through seasons where maybe only have one client instead of you know, my friend who has 13 or whatever? It’s trust. It is it is. It is every day. Whenever you get in a frenzy about whether or not you know you’re doing enough or you have enough or whatever you’re enough is that makes me all anxious inside. It’s about do I trust that he’s got it in for me, I do.

    Paige C. Clark 1:01:35
    Yeah. So I love that Christie, thank you so much for joining us now. Where can people find you if they want to buy a house in West Texas so they want to listen to your podcast? Where can people find they want to find my podcast

    Kristi Lowe 1:01:48
    is actually about stories that people’s faith and I’ve just kept seeing everybody’s faith show up over the years working with so many clients and so I started telling stories of faith on my podcast and it’s called the even if podcast and you can find that on Apple you can find it on Spotify or even if podcast.com We’re on Instagram and Facebook you can find us there and that’s that’s us we it’s just me and all my friends and we show up and tell stories and man God’s just so good. And it’s a fun though it’s not a creative outlet, but it’s a fun outlet to get to share those stories and and it’s a fun augmentation to my little real estate world. So thank you. Thank you for having me for inviting me to come on the show you

    Paige C. Clark 1:02:32
    thank you for joining me. Yeah, absolutely brings me so much joy and does appreciate all of what you’re willing to share. Especially in you know, some some uncertain and tumultuous real estate industry times.

    Kristi Lowe 1:02:53
    find you a good one. That’s what I would say is find a good real estate agent, somebody you can trust. Yeah, there we go.

    Paige C. Clark 1:02:59
    Thanks Kristi.

    Kristi Lowe 1:03:00
    You’re so welcome Paige. Have a great day. Thanks for joining us.

    Paige C. Clark 1:03:04
    If you liked what you were listening to make sure you subscribe and hit those five stars and we’ll catch you on the next episode.

  • 9 to 5 Faith Podcast: Episode 7

    This is a transcript from episode 7 of the 9 to 5 Faith Podcast with Paige C. Clark.

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    Start of Podcast

    Paige C. Clark 00:36
    Paige C. Clark and you’re listening to the nine to five faith podcast. All right, everyone, I am here with my friend Felicity and I cannot wait for you to hear all the genius she is ready to share with everyone. How are you doing today?

    Felicity Buddig 00:53
    I’m doing well. It’s Ash Wednesday and pouring rain in Chicago and it’s cold. So sights that things have been fantastic. Paige, it’s a pleasure to be here with you.

    Paige C. Clark 01:05
    You too. So can you tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do what your day looks like, all that stuff, how you spend your time.

    Felicity Buddig 01:15
    So I am a writer, author, speaker, mentor, mom, wife, stepmom, animal lover, cook chef made. And I own a brand called cheese u which is a brand for midlife women who are looking to reinvent and rediscover who they are. So that’s a little bit about who I am. And through all of that, we just keep juggling my girlfriend. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 01:52
    I was talking to a friend and she’s like, we don’t find balance, we find harmony, there’s no such thing as balance. We can only figure out how the chaos works together. 100% There is no such thing as Beyonce. You always have flow yoga be damned. So can you tell me a little bit about kind of your faith journey and kind of what that has looked like over the past few years?

    Felicity Buddig 02:20
    Yeah, that’s a fantastic question. So I was born and raised Catholic. And I think you probably hear that a lot. Like I was born and raised Catholic, we Catholics are either all in on it, or we were born and raised, and we don’t practice. And so that was the longest part of me. I was born and raised in didn’t practice. But it wasn’t until God put me on this journey. He was like, I’m really gonna make things hard for you. Because yes, and he put me on a really, really hard journey really, really hard, painful way emotionally. And then the light bulb finally went on, and I’m like, okay, so I get it. And that’s over the past, I would say, God, seven or eight years, I’ve been growing my my faith, my relationship with God. i It’s beautiful. You know, it’s been painful. It’s been, you know, screaming, why, you know, people can read about that. And my upcoming book, how hard my life has been. I feel like Job, if that makes any sense. If you’re familiar, okay. So people who are familiar with like, that’s like, how my journey has been, like, Why me? And then the light bulb comes on. And then I’m like, Okay, so now I understand. But he’s like, going to make it a little more tougher for you. And so that’s that forgiveness component. For my personal story, but that’s it. I do go to church to get the Eucharist. But I mostly practice just a little bit of here, a little bit of there. I haven’t found a place to call home. Yeah, brick and mortar. Because that’s home. This is our temple. We know yet, but the brick and mortar I haven’t found yet.

    Paige C. Clark 04:14
    Yeah. Yeah. And where did your company kind of find its way in that journey? And is there like a melding of the of the two between your faith and kind of what you do on your day to day?

    Felicity Buddig 04:30
    Yes, yes. So I’m, I’m a survivor of domestic abuse, violence, just childhood whole life has been really bad. So when I left my ex husband, years ago, I made a promise to God that I was going to build a community for women that they could turn to for support and guidance on their own transformational journey, because I didn’t have that I really think women need a community that accepts, you know, diversity and all that. So with that’s where the community component came into, and then how I can serve as God through that, because that’s sort of my next promise with him is we’re starting to, we’re, we’re speaking God language in the community. So it’s always been more or less that. I don’t want to say woo or walk language, but it’s, you know, for whatever reason, our culture has made it very uncomfortable for us Christians to be able to speak loudly that I believe in God. Yeah, you understand what I’m saying? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, we are being punished for that. And so I would do universe source, blah, blah, blah. And so, my social media manager, she’s a Christian gal, and I’m like, let’s just start doing it. It’s gone. It’s gone. And that’s my way of, I’m like, I’ll push it. And that’s what you’re doing as well, too. And I think that’s what we’ll have to keep doing. Because,

    Paige C. Clark 06:04
    yeah, man, that’s, that’s so true. And I think to like that, when, when we speak about our experiences, it’s received differently by people who are non believers, then like, standing on the streets, street corner with a picket sign, right, like, because we’re speaking from our experience, and like, if anyone listening is in sales and marketing, we always know like, the heart sells, right? Like, your service and product might solve a problem, but why they chose to go with you is because of your story and your heart and your conviction. And I think that can be like really easily applied to like how people view Christians and in the workplace. Yeah. And, yeah, and so what, what kind of is a day in the life of Felicity look like, in terms of your work, but also like how you incorporate God into into your work, but also like, into your household and your family and your practice? And all of that?

    Felicity Buddig 07:19
    Yeah, you know, so we are a blended family. And I have a 15 year old son that is, on his own discovery of God, he AI is killing me. Because as a mom, we just want to say, I’m just I’m going to be, this is 100% My language right here, when when you have a child that is going to fight and resist God, and you can see the struggle he’s going through. You just want to save your child and just say, just open up the book, put the say apart, right. And he’s like, resist, resist. And so I’ve had to surrender that. And I’m like, you’re on your own journey, buddy. I so what I do in my home is I pump Cristian. We have a whole house radio. So we have, which, by the way, I love like Carrie job and Brandon Lake. I’ll camp through Laos. I’m like, because my husband doesn’t is not he doesn’t practice anything. He remover doesn’t. And so I’m like, surrounded by a bunch of heathens. And I’m like, Yeah, I’m like, we’re gonna pump it through them. And they don’t mind it. Yeah. So it’s not a continuous loom, which I don’t mind it. But I get up an hour early every morning, and I pop on my air pods, and I turn on Spotify, I’ll turn on the halo app, I’ll do that. I’ll turn on Spotify. There’s a couple of people that I like on Spotify. I’ll do that. And then the Hello app, and then I do my own personal prayer. So I get my early in the morning, and I think when we can start our day with that, and ask God to grace us with with his excellence shaped me the way I’m supposed to be through his vision. You know, it for me it. I’ve noticed a huge difference. Yeah. Giving up and scrolling through emails.

    Paige C. Clark 09:19
    Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh, one thing that actually you said ash, Ash Wednesday, it is Ash Wednesday, and it is the beginning of Lent. And one thing that my we always try my husband and I tried to do the same thing for lent the same kind of sacrifice or, you know, the same fast for Lent, just so it’s like a little bit easier that like, I’m not eating chocolate cake. Well, he gave up sugar like, because that would just be mean. But what we’re doing is no tech nology in the bedroom. So no phones, no TV Like I even like my Apple watch like nothing, no laptops, no iPads, nothing. Not only I just wrote a blog about it, but like, not only does it like help your marriage, but it also helps your sleep and it will hopefully help your spiritual life to like, kind of compartmentalize that one piece.

    Felicity Buddig 10:22
    I think so I think so. And you might be on to 40 days of sex, like, yeah, be changing them in life.

    Paige C. Clark 10:31
    Well, there’s actually, so my background is actually in psychology, I have a master’s degree in psychology. And it is very, very true of people who married couples who don’t have like TVs, or use their devices in the bedroom have better sex lives and better intimacy than those who use their phones and watch TV in the bedroom.

    Felicity Buddig 10:54
    I completely agree with you on that. And my husband, that is one of our marriage and family therapy. That is that he is like, I want her off that phone. That’s my way of decompressing. Yes.

    Paige C. Clark 11:07
    Yeah. So So I mean, let’s go, let’s go there. In a world that is very connected, and very online, how do you find time to not only just like in the morning, but how do you find time throughout your day or throughout your week to kind of unplug and like reset with God and like also your relationships with other people?

    Felicity Buddig 11:33
    Um, so I have my morning routine. And then I repeat that in the evening, God and then, you know, I’ve always talked to him. Right? As if he’s like, around, I’m like, Hey, dude, like, no, but you know what I mean, like, what’s going on? But I think when it comes to unplugging, I do my best unplugging in water. So I’m a bathtub girl or hot tub girl and I have both so but there has to be some sort of music, some sort of, I don’t want to say other stimulation around, but just where I can just release whatever attention it is. And then from my, you know, the relationships, we there’s no phones for dinnertime. There’s no technology for dinnertime, it’s put your phone away, you know, Sunday, Sundays, I am doing the Bible in a year app with Yeah, Father Mike through the Hello app. So I take my Sundays. And that’s my Sunday morning. I pop my air pods on and I do that. So yeah, that’s awesome.

    Paige C. Clark 12:40
    We are like kindred spirits. So because I love water as well. I like to say like I’m part fish. And I have a big bathtub and to be installed soon a new pool. So I feel you have like, it’s just like a red. It’s different. Water. People know though. Like, if you’re listening to this and you’re like, You’re weird. You’re probably not a water person.

    Felicity Buddig 13:06
    Exactly. You might be a fire element, or earth elements because I’m an earth element gal too. I love going I love to hike. I love going through the woods. You know, I like that smell. It’s very grounding. But water is so calming and cleansing. I mean, we’ll look what Yeah, I mean, it just it goes back to. I mean, that’s where they started baptizing people was right. So for me, I am a water girl, but you’re gonna love your pool. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 13:35
    I’m excited. But like pools are like, extremely expensive. That’s something they didn’t warn me about as a kid. And right, all my neighbors, they all have pools and we don’t because also like we don’t sit on like 200 grand in our bank account, because that’s how much tools costs out here. If you want like a semi decent one. I was like, You know what, I can wait to save up. If any of my neighbors need house sitting. I will gladly house it if I can use their pool.

    Felicity Buddig 14:04
    So I have a secured pool story for you. Oh my gosh, let’s hear it. And this is this is. So we are in Chicago and we were on an acre. So we built this big, beautiful pole. And we’re surrounded by all evergreens and we don’t look at a neighbor. And so we are pull up and we open it April 21. And we close it at the end of October so we can heat it. Yeah. And so this October this past October. I mean, we had that baby up to like 90 some degrees. It was like a ginormous hot towel. Yeah, it was amazing. And we all loved it. And then I got my gas bill and it was pushing 2000 And I just was like

    Paige C. Clark 14:46
    oh my gosh.

    Felicity Buddig 14:49
    Which we knew it was going to happen. I mean, like seeing it on paper dollar signs going up in the air and the smoke, but I gotta tell it, it was just the best and we had over two So yeah. Oh, it

    Paige C. Clark 15:02
    was beautiful. See out out here in Arizona, we have to actually cool our pools during the summer. Because if you don’t, it’s hot, it’s 120 outside and you’re swimming and like 95 degree pool water because it’s so hot. So we either ice or you have a cooling system.

    Felicity Buddig 15:21
    Yeah, exactly.

    Paige C. Clark 15:24
    So good, though. Um, so. So what? What are some of the struggles that you encounter? When it comes to like practicing your faith and, and kind of involving involving that into your business and into your home life? And like, how do you make sure you fit it in? And how do you make sure that like, it stays like centered on the gospel?

    Felicity Buddig 15:54
    I think, you know, it’s, it’s in my business. It’s in my home as much as I can get it in my home without being a tyrant. Right. I would I would like it more. I think one of the biggest struggles is getting into a Pew is, you know, I’ve made it to a couple Catholic masses, and I’m having a hard time with, with, with with the Catholic Church. So yeah, I really am. It’s not the it’s not the big see, it’s the little see that right. Yeah. And I appreciate

    Paige C. Clark 16:29
    your honesty and vulnerability about that, though, because that’s not an easy thing to admit to, in my opinion.

    Felicity Buddig 16:39
    Well, thank you. Because I’m, I’m very transparent about it. I’m yeah, I’m like, your mask is so dry. Yeah. Number one, the masses dry? Like, why don’t you like spice up some of the music, you get a younger crowd in here? And then number two is, are we going to see the fall of the Vatican? Like the I mean, look at the stuff that the Archdiocese have covered up over the decades over the centuries? And so I’m like, who’s infiltrated the Vatican? Yeah, sorry. Go there. i Yeah. So I don’t know if we’ll see it in our time. Yeah. But I do I have a real hard time. So that’s one of my biggest struggles is just finding a brick and mortar place to worship. I think, if I could do that, I think you’re gonna, I’m gonna have a bigger sense of community for myself, and for my family, and for my son. And that’s one of the biggest struggles is finding it because you know, nondenominational I think it’s pretty, but, you know, a Catholic mass is, is beautiful. I mean, yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 17:46
    I think there’s definitely, as as much as this, you know, small teach, small c church can be broken, because it’s run by broken people, right, like, is broken people trying to put it together? I think that, like each, you know, if you’re Catholic or Evangelical, I think they each have like, their own, like, beautiful elements to it. And I actually actually worked in Ireland for a while with a with a ministry out there that was working to, you know, minister to the kids, kind of like, like their equivalent of like, high school aged kids. And what was really beautiful as this ministry was going forward, was that it was ultimately nondenominational in the fact that our I guess like an denominational, yeah, so like it didn’t, it didn’t associate itself with the Catholic Church or with a Protestant church. It was Unitarian. Yeah, very neutral in that approach. And that was actually that allowed them to reach so much so many more people in their ministry. Because they said, you know, like, they agreed on the big, the big list of things, you know, the Jesus, the Trinity, you know, there’s agreement there. And the rest, you know, can be figured out within your own heart. But but it opened up so many doors to be able to like, kind of stand straddle that line, I guess.

    Felicity Buddig 19:31
    Yeah, I agree completely. Yeah. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 19:35
    Yeah. And I and I hear what you’re saying to with with finding community and I think that like, I hear you and I hear what you’re saying is like, one one is not easy to find community and find those people. But also, like I hear the desire to do that within you when you’re talking about it. Have you had have you Have had kind of a glimpse or like a taste of a really powerful or strong community within within the church.

    Felicity Buddig 20:09
    I have never Wow. I know I have never and I’ve watched so many Hallmark movies. And I have never, you know, I just I haven’t and I don’t know if that’s just I wasn’t, you know, sometimes we are closed off to certain things I could have closed off. I haven’t maybe found the right. Time. That wasn’t the right place. Yeah. You know, so I’m exploring out here in my area. And, you know, I’ve connected with some really great women out some of the churches because there’s a wonderful Unitarian Church, right down the street with me. Beautiful, female pastor that’s reforming prisoners and everything. Yes. Yeah. It’s so close. Yeah, there is a block that I have. There’s some Yeah,

    Paige C. Clark 21:03
    yeah. But I think it’s beautiful, though. Because like, even though and and forgive me, if I’m like, mischaracterizing what you’re saying. But like, even though you haven’t experienced this kind of community, like you still feel a sense of being drawn to the need for community. And I think that’s a really interesting, like, a really interesting highlight of the human experience is that we’re designed to do it together.

    Felicity Buddig 21:36
    110% Yes,

    Paige C. Clark 21:38
    yeah. And I think when we have our faith, depending on what kind of because to bring it back, we’re talking about work and like, how our work intersects with our faith. I think that you were saying your social media manager is a Christian. But then there’s also those people who are not believers, who we encounter every single day, I would say, I encounter more unbelievers than I do in my regular life at work.

    Felicity Buddig 22:08
    Yeah, we’re seeing a lot of that, to be honest with you. You respect it. I respect it. i Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 22:15
    Can you talk more about that experience for you?

    Felicity Buddig 22:19
    Yeah, I had a social media manager, I absolutely love her. She does more stuff on the side. And I don’t think there’s a relationship with God, because she’s kind of made mention on the verbiage that we are switching to, and she said, It’s gonna offend the people that aren’t. And I said, Well, it’s going to attract the people that I want to attract. When you have to think yes. You know, I am very spiritual. I am spiritually gifted. I am. Yes. So I can see both sides of the spectrum, right. But I’m going to do it my way. And they’re going to do it their way and there is no right or wrong. But if you are feeling empty, feeling lost, feeling unfulfilled, there’s a reason for that. And my relationship with God has completely turned that around.

    Paige C. Clark 23:13
    Yeah. Oh, gosh, that’s so true. And, and what I see, especially, I mean, it literally happened last week. So it’s like really opportune, that we’re talking about this. But for me last week, I don’t know what I was looking at a video or something on Facebook of a video and it was talking about Christians. And I made the mistake of going to read the comments. If you are in a negative place, stay away from the comment section because it is not a good place that fosters positive positivity. And I was reading through it and I was like, I was like, so heartbroken of like, what people write in these comment sections are kind of like the revelation of their true feelings and their true selves. While they might not say that to you, in a cubicle, they’re saying it online, and I got really disheartened. And then the Asbury, are you familiar with what’s happening as a university? So um, that’s happening. And I like kind of compare the two and I was like, we are so hungry for God, like, but most of our culture does not know what to call it.

    Felicity Buddig 24:35
    Or they suppress it, because what happened to Kanye? I’m sorry, to open it up there. Yeah. We are suppressing it. We are suppressing it and suppressing and suppressing it and it’s become such bad juju to speak that we I am proud to say that I am a Christian. I believe in God. It is I mean are images of women protesters during the the abortion thing and I don’t even want to go there with right? It’s right or I’m just the signs that they were holding up was just, it was grotesque and it wasn’t coming from a place of love. You know what I mean? And I think, for me God’s intention, if you are following him or following the word, it’s out of a place of love. And we’re not seeing that today. Yeah. And comments are scary.

    Paige C. Clark 25:36
    Yeah, it was, it was brutal. And I have learned my lesson. But it also gave me kind of a glimpse into the battle that’s even happening. Like in the spiritual realm, for us, and for people who are believers and people who are not believers and, and that battle that is going there. And I was even in the workplace, I work in a very kind of corporate environment. And like, there’s been many times where I hit my knees, and I’m like, God, I don’t know how to respond to this in a way that is honoring to you, but also that reflects you in these examples, and I think that’s some sometimes really difficult.

    Felicity Buddig 26:26
    What’s interesting, yeah, yeah. What would your coworker say? How would they react?

    Paige C. Clark 26:31
    Yeah. And, and being put in situations where you’re obligated to reply or to answer in a certain realm, but also you’re like, that’s not God honoring in my faith. And I think that’s something that like people struggle with. And something you know, your social media manager, kind of called out is like, here’s gonna be people who are turned off by this.

    Felicity Buddig 26:59
    Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you’re meant to, like, just change that. And I think we have, there’s an opportunity there. Yeah. I mean, we, we see what’s going on in the world. And, you know, we can hunker down and just pray, or we can be willing to stand up for what we believe in.

    Paige C. Clark 27:21
    Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And, and so what I kind of wanted to circle around about is one I have like, so many logistical questions, like my marketing mind is kicking in is like, when did you make this change on your social media? And what have your metrics and change? Like, what have your social media metrics looks like since you made this change? And have you seen an improvement in being more upfront about what you believe in?

    Felicity Buddig 27:52
    Social Media Engagement? Yes, I have seen improvement metrics. I had to fire that person. So I don’t know yet. Yeah, okay. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 28:01
    I got you. I got you.

    Felicity Buddig 28:04
    I was just gonna say, I found that out. I’m gonna talk to her. Because I do I want more of it. I want more of it. I do. And I would like to pair up and collaborate with some wonderful women that I see on Instagram. Like, she who worships there’s bands out there that I’m seeing, you know, my uncle page is to be out there speaking to communities of just groups of midlife women, letting everybody know that you know what you’re going through right now. It’s okay. There’s no shame to feel about it. We all have a story. We all have a struggle, but we do it together. And that togetherness was brought to you from Yeah, yeah. And I would love to pair it with some of the Yeah, the I think it’s called she who worships or something like that. It’s, you know,

    Paige C. Clark 28:59
    yeah. One of the accounts. Yeah. So going into like what you do a little bit more like why midlife women? Like what is what is significant about that sector of women?

    Felicity Buddig 29:15
    Why am one one I’m so at 42 I had my awakening, I had my earth shattering like what the hell happened? I was raised like how my family is like, what? And I went through some intense, intense, really good therapy surrounded by some really great therapists and shamans and I went back to my roots in Mexico to do some healing part of my spiritual gifts. I have the ability to see past life stuff with me so I was able to go back to Mexico and work with shamans and I were current shamans here and I Um, I think with midlife women, when we do hit that point at 42, we start to open our eyes and realize, like, I’m not everything that made me happy that it’s not your eyes are open, you’re realizing that, especially in our generation, we were trained to just do it all. And we’ve heard a lot of women climbing that corporate ladder. So there’s a lot of feminine going on right now. Currently, too. Yeah. So we’re backing off. And we’re finding side hustles. And yeah, and a lot of us are just learning to set healthy boundaries, expectations, and just starting to dabble in new adventures. And I think it’s beautiful.

    Paige C. Clark 30:41
    Yeah. Talking about the corporate ladder. And I’ll add this with the caveat of I know Jesus can do anything he wants. So if he wants to be in the corporate space, he will be in the corporate space. But in the regular American kind of business corporation, as it currently stands, do you think there’s room for Jesus?

    Felicity Buddig 31:15
    It’s sad, isn’t it? Yeah. It is.

    Paige C. Clark 31:21
    The answers probably no.

    Felicity Buddig 31:22
    Yeah, it really is. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Sad.

    Paige C. Clark 31:31
    You Yeah. And how and how do does Jesus show up at you know, I’m reaching out to a bunch of people to get, you know, all walks of life on this podcast of like, all different backgrounds. But with the common thread of like, they believe in Jesus, and I’m hoping to get some human resource professionals and some employment lawyers on here because, like, I, I don’t think it’s happening so much now. But I I can see it happening in the future of where it’s gonna be silenced. And that’s hard and, and scary of, you know, not being able to talk about your who you are. It’s not even your faith. Because when we are in Jesus, we are a new creation, and he lives in us and so not being able to be who you are in Jesus in the workplace is

    Felicity Buddig 32:28
    unfair. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. I think you need some rebel rousers. I’m like that, yeah, you’re like, triggering my rebel in me. And I’ve learned that in my little cubicle, and you’re gonna yank me out?

    Paige C. Clark 32:44
    Wow. Yeah.

    Felicity Buddig 32:47
    You know, um, I would hope not. I would hope I would not, especially with where we’re shifting because we are spiritually shifting into a new. That’s a whole other conversation, but we are spiritually shifting, the Earth is shifting. Things are happening. I think we’re, you know, I have faith. Yeah, I do. I really do. I have faith. And I’m going to tell you when it gets bad, the old saying there are no atheists in a foxhole. Yeah. And sometimes God has to rock our foundation heart before we had been there. And we’ve had many years of just good times. And so he’s like, we’re gonna make it hard.

    Paige C. Clark 33:30
    Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And because in the heart is where you find Jesus, I’m actually I’m actually working on a book of like, how to find Jesus in the easy, because I feel like that’s where most most people struggle with their faith, or struggle with the intentionality of their faith is when things are going good.

    Felicity Buddig 33:54
    I gotta think about that, that’s good. That is nine. Or you know, it all starts at home, and then we, because we just become our own individual self, right. So it really is your own personal journey.

    Paige C. Clark 34:09
    And I like to think to your saying kind of this uprising, I wouldn’t put it there yet. But kind of this merging of, of Christians, and I guess I would just say like moral Christians who are stepping up into the place that had a very hard boundary line before, and they’re, they’re stepping over and kind of crossing that of like, we don’t need just more Christians. We need more Christian Christian business leaders. Because then through that they’re able to operate their business in an ethical and moral way and allow for their employees to have the freedom to be able to practice their faith.

    Felicity Buddig 34:59
    I’ve got some I’m ready for you to interview. So my chiropractor, I go and see a chiropractor, so we won’t forget this. Well, I will connect you. And I love walking into that office because the Christian music is playing, you’ll heal some of the employees going, oh my god, I can’t take it anymore. And we can freely speak about what ever Yeah, politics COVID Just its freedom. But I’m telling you, it’s a small business. It’s yeah. And maybe that’s where we need to put the money in. But I walked in, and they are not afraid to talk about it, to listen to it. And I don’t see any uncomfortable people besides a couple employees, and there’s still plenty more to be honest with you. So

    Paige C. Clark 35:46
    yeah, my hair stylist was the same way where she she had, she has since sold her business, which I am like heartbroken about because I’m like, I have to go find someone else like this. This does not keep itself up, I have I need someone with professional help. But she was the same way where anyone was able to talk about everything and would always have worship music playing on in the background, and like you knew what you got when you went there. But also, it’s a very successful business. And she sold it and you know, it’s still successful. And so, yeah, I think we just need more Christian business owners to be able to, we need to raise them up to be able to help just sustain faith in the workplace.

    Felicity Buddig 36:37
    I think so and not be afraid because that was me as I struggled with the fear part of it, oh my god, I’m gonna put this out. I’m going to write an article about this. Oh, my God, I’m going to, and then it was a deeper epiphany that I had talking to God that I’m like, Okay, I’m going to serve you this way. You have gotten me this far and have given me these amazing gifts through My trials and tribulations. I can serve you this way by speaking it to women. And so for me, it was really fear based. And then I was just like, I’m just gonna do it.

    Paige C. Clark 37:14
    Yeah. Yeah. And, and too, I think that when we step into a spirit of boldness, we realize that those who we were those who would be offended, they don’t really know you. Because I think like, even I fall into this trap a lot of kind of watering down my face, especially when I’m like in at work and everything of like, I don’t want to talk about it as boldly as I know I can. And it’s, it’s really for fear that I’m going to be pocketed into a certain bucket, and people will see the label and put me in that bucket. When really the truth is, if they know me, and they know my heart. I probably don’t fit in that bucket.

    Felicity Buddig 38:12
    Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 38:14
    Most of us don’t. Yeah, the only people use, the people in the bucket are the people you see on the news. And that’s why you think the people in the bucket go there. Right, like, the stereotypes that that we encounter.

    Felicity Buddig 38:27
    Hmm, exactly. Yeah. That’s very, that’s very interesting.

    Paige C. Clark 38:33
    Yeah. So to kind of wrap up this conversation, I always like to ask my guests, what is one thing that our listeners can do to implement implement a faith building practice or discipline into their life? What can they walk away with today?

    Felicity Buddig 38:52
    One thing that we can do, yeah. Talk to God. Just talk, just start by talking. It’s it simply has to just start with talking. And I think from there, it usually just kind of grows and flourishes if you start talking. You know, we want to live in his excellence. Yeah, no. Yeah. be groomed into his excellence. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 39:20
    Oh, that’s so powerful. So powerful, because I think people think that when we talk about a relationship with Jesus and a relationship with God, people miss out like, what do you do in a relationship? You hang out with them, you spend time with them, you learn about the other person. They learn about you. Of course, God knows everything about you. But there’s, there’s this give and take in the relationship and it’s not just like, yeah, he knows everything about me. It’s like, okay, what do I know about God? And do I talk to him?

    Felicity Buddig 39:54
    Yeah, yeah. And dive into the scriptures. I mean, you’re talking to Right now, somebody who was a Catholic because she had to be, and just didn’t have a relationship with him for a long time. And then finally started to and dive into the Scripture. poke around. Do your own homework. Yeah, don’t Yeah. I mean, if anything, if you are that, uncertain about who he or she is, is he in my eyes? You know, I’m just poke around, dive into the Scripture. I gotta tell you, there’s some great podcasts out there. There’s some great apps out there. Jeff cavan’s is awesome. He has helped me understand the scriptures. I usually have to listen and then go to YouTube. Right. And he’s helped define the difference between, you know, living in his excellence. There’s no ego. No ego. No I on that.

    Paige C. Clark 40:55
    Yeah. Thank you so much Felicity for joining us. You’re beautiful. It was great. Thank you. Thank you, then. Awesome, and we’ll catch you guys on the next episode. Thanks for joining us. If you liked what you were listening to make sure you subscribe and hit those five stars.

  • 9 to 5 Faith Podcast: Episode 6

    This is a transcript from episode 6 of the 9 to 5 Faith Podcast with Paige C. Clark.

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    Start of Podcast

    Paige C. Clark 00:00
    This is Paige C Clark and you’re listening to the nine to five faith podcast. Hi, everyone. Welcome to this episode. I’m here with my friend Carla. Carla, how are you doing today?

    Carla H. Hayden 00:48
    I’m doing so good. It is the beginning of March. We’ve made it. We’ve made it through February, the shortest and yet the longest month?

    Paige C. Clark 00:56
    Yes, it is crazy that like, we’re still only like two months into the year and it feels like it’s been a long year thus far.

    Carla H. Hayden 01:07
    It’s been a long year.

    Paige C. Clark 01:08
    Yes. Well, so glad to have you on the podcast. And so glad to have this conversation. Because again, I say this a lot. But I can’t relate to celebrity speakers, or infamous people, I can relate to normal people. And I think there’s a lot of people out there who are normal people. So let’s talk about life in a normal person’s, and then normal person’s world. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

    Carla H. Hayden 01:37
    Yeah, so I am a single mom of three, I have three young adult children. And my nine to five, if you will, is I am actually in a new assignment. I just started a new job about three months ago, I’m the Chief People Officer for a financial advisory firm here in Indianapolis, Indiana. It is a hybrid office of about 35 people, which is almost completely opposite of the assignment I was in for the last two for the previous two and a half years, which I was the chief operating officer for a fully remote team for an online membership community. And so it’s just really been interesting to kind of adjust back to having a local network and having to put shoes on every day.

    Paige C. Clark 02:27
    So you are working in an office

    Carla H. Hayden 02:31
    I am it’s actually hybrid. So I try to be in the office. At least three days, it’s really been more like four days a week. But I do reserve Fridays for working from home and trying to do very little to no meetings so that I can kind of keep that as my deep work day. It doesn’t always happen. But I’m also chalking that up to I’m still in my first 90 days, I’m coming up on my 90 days next week. So that’s always a whirlwind of activity anyway.

    Paige C. Clark 03:00
    Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think that no meeting days are always good at my company, we have no meeting Fridays. So every single Friday, we get out and everyone respects it even even so much so that people like apologize when they have to slack you about so I know. Like I respect I respect the boundaries, but I’m like, you know, like it’s its messaging, it would be like if you were in the office, and like you had to ask me a question like that is fair game equally.

    Carla H. Hayden 03:30
    Yeah. That’s so good, though, to have a culture where people really do respect those boundaries. Yeah. Because it it’s so what I have found after being back in an office environment after two and a half, almost three years of not being in one is I do enjoy the buzz. I enjoy that energy and kind of seeing people and having those unintentional connection points have, I’m getting coffee, you’re getting coffee, how was your weekend. But I do find for myself, I have to put like my headphones in and just really focus because I tend to be like, Oh, who’s walking by? Oh. So

    Paige C. Clark 04:10
    I’m the same way. I’ve seen something floating around the internet where it’s like someone who has assigned tape to the back of their chair and said, like, Please don’t disturb me, I will talk to you and lock you up. I worked.

    Carla H. Hayden 04:23
    It is a unique thing for me because my title My role is Chief People Officer. And so I do feel torn on on a lot of days where my job is the people, I’m the Chief of people. And so if the people need me, I want to be available. And also there is tenacity type work to be done. Even in my job. It’s not all meetings. And so I do have to be a grown up about my own schedule and just block those times. And just like what you were saying with your office, it’s people are pretty respectful about

    Paige C. Clark 04:57
    that. Yeah, yeah. And when thing I noticed when you were just talking is you talk about their your assignment, which that language really intrigues me. You’re not saying my new job or my career, it’s your new assignment? Can you tell them more about that?

    Carla H. Hayden 05:13
    Yeah, I think this came about a number of years ago for me, and, and it really came from a place of seeking the Lord for, you know, I think a lot of us sometimes grow up in a faith or even come to faith. And we’re wondering, like, what is my call, what’s my calling, and it’s this really big, ominous, like, if I get it wrong, it’s like, hitting the wrong button. And really, God just in his kindness, and his graciousness towards me, really led me down a path of understanding that my, my calling is the same as yours as a believer it is to bring glory to God, it’s to be an imager of God, that’s my calling. But the way in which I’m going to do it could look very different than the way it’s going to look for you. And, and that really came to a place also, when I went through some a relational change. I was, as I mentioned, I’m a single mom, but I wasn’t always a single mom. And during that time of change, and transition and grief, I was really seeking the Lord for like, is, is this it? So I now have to check a different box on a on a piece of paper that, you know, when it comes to my status. And is that it like that’s, that’s the end of my call. That’s it. And what I realized is that even things like marriage, like parenting, like your bank account, those types of things that are important, and weighty in this world, but temporal nonetheless, they are just our assignments and assignments, they come and go, they have start times and end times. God doesn’t always allow us to be privy to what those dates are, right. But it really comes down to understanding that no matter what your assignment is, God is calling us to faithfulness in that assignment. And so that’s really the way that I have approached my jobs, but also just the various seasons of my life. I look at each season and each opportunity, each door that God opens as an assignment and and then seek Him for how to be faithful in in that particular. Yeah, where he’s placing me.

    Paige C. Clark 07:39
    Yeah. And I think that releases so much of the like, kind of paranoia of like, Oh, am I doing what, what God’s wanting me to do? Whatever this is like going back and forth with all those questions, and what really grounds me and all of that is like, there’s nothing I can do to screw up God’s plan. Yeah. That is a very, like freeing sense of like, even if I suck at this assignment, like God is still God at the end of the day.

    Carla H. Hayden 08:13
    That’s right. Yeah. And he is, he’s so gracious. And he’s so merciful to us. And assignments are really opportunity, their opportunity for reward their opportunity for promotion, I don’t just mean that in the job sense. Like, you know, promotion, even when you think about growing up and going to school. You know, you’re moving from grade to grade. And it’s every time you’re stepping into a new grade, there’s some things that you’re like, oh, yeah, I learned that in the last grade. And I’m taking that with me and some things that are just brand new, and you’re not going to be an expert on it on day one, which I think for a lot of us is a really uncomfortable place to be. But it should be an invitation that draws us into a greater intimacy with God of, okay, this is new, but you are not, you aren’t in the dark about how to operate in this assignment. You’ve prepared this for me beforehand. And so my role is just to walk in faithfulness and in relationship with you through this assignment until the end, and that end for some people is, you know, like my mom, she worked for the same company for 50 years, she had one employer her entire adult life. And I’ve probably had 50 employers you know, it’s the opposite. And so it’s it’s not the same for everyone. And I think that that’s just if I were to issue a permission slip today for people you know, by where to put on my mom and Hayden hat and issue a permission slip it would be just be faithful to your own assignment. And, and that comes from the Lord.

    Paige C. Clark 09:50
    Yeah, I think God is doing something I don’t know what it is. But I think he is doing something in the workplace in kind of this idea of like A higher turnover rate for employees, because you don’t hear of people spending 3040 years at a company anymore. You don’t. And it’s not necessarily the regular workplace. And so I think there’s something to be kind of said about that. I don’t know what it is, but I think there’s something there.

    Carla H. Hayden 10:22
    You know, I, I’m really glad that you brought that up, because my role is one of leadership. And I love, love, love leading leaders. And one of the things that I would really encourage leaders in today, Christian leader, specifically, is this idea of that you in your role as a leader of a company of a team of a group, whatever that is, you’re really called by God into an assignment of being a marketplace, shepherd. And so it is. So such a privilege and an opportunity to shepherd people in whatever season they’re in, if that’s their first job, their first big girl job out of college, that’s your opportunity to shepherd a young person in how to carry themselves in the marketplace, whatever your industry may be. If you’re shepherding somebody who is walking toward retirement, you have such an opportunity to help them finish well. And then everyone in between, you know, doing a good job in there every day, and people who want to get promoted and grow in their leadership and management. And, you know, the way that I look at it is, I, there’s just no reason to be upset when somebody wants to leave your company, because they have a, quote, better opportunity. You know, I’ve always, I’ve always really approached my leadership of people as, okay, the Lord has sent you to me for a certain season of time, and maybe that’s six months, maybe it’s six years, whatever that is, but it’s, it’s still just a fraction of time. And how can I help you show up as your full whole self in your job, do you contribute high value to your job, and, and whatever that looks like, because when somebody feels fulfilled in their role, it’s a, it’s a positive cycle, you know, they feel they feel fulfilled, they feel seen, they feel known, they feel wanted and loved, they bring their best self, when they bring their best self, then everybody wins on the team. And so, you know, if that person is there for a short period of time, because God is bringing them there, it could be to heal from a previous toxic workplace or toxic boss, it could be a place of gaining courage and confidence, maybe, you know, they were pursuing something and something happens at their previous employer, or they this is their first time stepping into a role. It could be where it’s a bridge to the next thing, whatever that is, like, there’s just no sense as a leader to be upset when somebody leaves, if they’re good, they’re gonna leave. If they’re good, they’re gonna get poached. And it’s okay, it because God’s going to fill your hopper back up with other people that need whatever you have to offer.

    Paige C. Clark 13:20
    Yeah, and I think, I think there’s a tendency in today’s workplace to try to fit like a square peg into a round hole with it’s just like, constant like promotion, promotion, growth, growth, growth, growth, kind of kind of mentality. And whereas like some of the best leaders I’ve ever had in, in the corporate world are, have said to me, I want you to be fulfilled, and I want you to grow how you want to grow. And if that happens at this company, great, but if it doesn’t, like, like, okay, yeah, you’re free, go, go do what you need to be doing. Because I, you know, I’d much rather have a leader who was encouraging my growth in a in an organic way versus into a forcing kind of trying to make everything that way.

    Carla H. Hayden 14:18
    Right. It really comes down to alignment, right alignment, in your assignment, your company has an assignment, you have an assignment, this could be a season where those two things align. And then there could be a world in which those two things don’t align at some point. And so I I’m always going to be somebody’s biggest support while they’re in my company, I’m going to help to clear roadblocks and obstacles to their success in the company. But when it’s time for them to leave, I’m going to be their biggest cheerleader, you know, and I’m going to help them finish well, because they are going to be launching into something else, even if that’s something else is their own gig. Um, you know, I want them to finish well with where they are. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 15:04
    Oh my gosh, there’s so many good things. I’m like, let’s, let’s have you again on Carla. And we’ll just just talk about leadership in the workplace. Let’s see, I feel like that’s a secondary conversation that definitely needs to happen. But let’s talk about you. And so like, you’re in office, you’re in this new gig, you’re finding your flow, you’re finding your rhythm. What does kind of like the day to day of Carlo look like? And how do you make sure that you? This is gonna sound bad? But how do you make sure to keep your faith at the forefront and fit God into the schedule of someone else?

    Carla H. Hayden 15:41
    Yeah, no, that’s a really great question. Well, first of all, I will tell you that just like everyone else, I’ve had to adjust specifically over the last two to three years. And then me specifically, I’ve had to adjust over the last few months of like, like I mentioned that at the top of the show, like, I have to put shoes on now, I have to, I have to a lot for a commute time now where my commute was 10 steps, you know, 10, literal stairs from upstairs to downstairs, and then I’d be in my office. Yeah. I, the way that I go about it. So my everyday looks almost exactly the same in the sense that I wake up and immediately have a cup of coffee. I mean, I’m not coffee with Carla for nothing’s immediately black cup of coffee. It doesn’t have to be fancy, it could be Keurig. It could be pot brewed. It doesn’t have to be you know, I don’t I don’t actually have time for the pour over, like just gives me hot and straight. But cup of coffee. And then I do I have my my time with the Lord. And that’s always in the word, always every single day. But that is a practice and a discipline that is over 20 years in the making. You know, I mentioned that I have young adult children. Now, they weren’t always young adults, they were young at one point. And so I this has been a practice that I have developed over the course of 20 years over the course of multiple and varied seasons of time, a mom of young kids, a homeschooling mom, a mom that had a part time job, you know, a married mom, a single mom being kind of a, you know, just a cog in a wheel to now being a leader in a company and everything in between. And so, you know, the, the what that looks like for me is, I don’t even really think about it anymore in the morning, it is the first thing that I do. And it’s not always a delight, sometimes I’m exhausted. Sometimes I’ve stayed up way too late binge watching something on a school night. And I’m tired. And what I have found recently, is, when that happens, I still have my quiet time. But number one, I will choose to read the word out loud in my out loud voice. So that helps, it helps to keep me a little bit more focused. It also awakens my soul and spirit because there is power in the spoken audible Word of God. And, you know, we know in Hebrews, it talks about faith comes through hearing and hearing by the Word of God. And for me, it’s like I and even if I don’t feel it in my emotions, I believe in that power that’s happening. And so as I’m speaking out, and even if it’s just the Psalms, you know, it doesn’t have to be, you know, Deuteronomy, it could just be you know, and just saying it out loud, and allowing the Holy Spirit to hover over those spoken words and do the work within me and trust it that work. And I have found even just as recently as this week that I wasn’t feeling it when I was starting. But as I got into it, and just again, faithfulness and obedience, just as I got into it, I actually found myself weeping that came out of nowhere. Yeah. And I realized that really what it was, is it was just a tenderizing of my soul and my spirit. And that sometimes when you’re a nine to FiVER, you’re just going, you’re just going going, going from one thing to the next from one meeting the next one email to the next and, and, and then to take that time to stop. It’s a strange, it’s almost like a paradox. It’s like you’re to take the time to stop at the start of your day. And to invite God into that space. And what I love to be there for two and a half hours, yes, but that would require me to wake up at a time that nobody should be up, quite frankly. But, but I do what I can and I trust. I trust that God sees my heart in it, and it’s really it’s, it’s making that time. So yeah, I have it every morning and then I get ready for the day, take a shower, get dressed, put my makeup on. And all that time I’m usually listening to a podcast and so I’m usually listening to either a leadership podcast because As for me, leadership is my craft. And so I want to be better at my craft, I want to sharpen my my skills and my tools. And so I’m either listening to a leadership podcast that is put on by somebody of a shared faith. So not just any leadership podcast, but there’s a lot of great ones by Christian leaders, or I’m listening to a spiritual formation podcast, because sometimes my brain is overloaded with learning of like, how to be a better leader, how to, you know, improve employee engagement, how to do this, and that, and sometimes my brain is like, the can’t take anymore. And so I’ll listen to a spiritual formation podcast, I’ll listen to maybe a message that I might have missed from my church, or you know, some other church or, you know, podcast that talks about the word and I just let it I just let it kind of rain over me as I’m taking a shower, and I don’t Yeah, don’t try to take notes or anything like that. I just trust that what I’m supposed to hear, I’m gonna hear. Yeah. And then my commute to work is about 10 minutes. So long enough where I can enter prepare, as I enter into the day, at that point, I’m usually listening to like worship music or something, just to kind of, again, refocused my heart. And it’s not so long, though that I have road rage. long commutes I cannot. So it’s just the right blend. Yeah. Yeah. And so that’s my day. And then, you know, I’m usually in the office between 830 and nine and kind of there until about five, maybe six, depending?

    Paige C. Clark 21:34
    And, and how do you like, demonstrate your faith in what you do every day? In terms of your work and your job? I mean, I think that, you know, as Christians, we’re called to live a different life than the world around us. And the likelihood is the people around us are not of the same faith. So what does that look like for you?

    Carla H. Hayden 22:00
    First of all, it’s excellence in whatever I’m putting my hands to, not perfection, but excellence, it’s, it’s taking the time it is taking it seriously, I again, I look at it as being an assignment from the Lord. And I want to be a faithful steward, a good and faithful steward of what he’s entrusted to me. And so it, that’s number one, it’s, it’s not slacking off. It’s not, you know, using company time to do personal things necessarily, or, you know, even in this day and age of work life balance, it’s just making sure that I’m getting my work done, you know, that’s 10 o’clock at night, as opposed to 10 in the morning, so be it, but I’m getting my work done. The other thing is, it’s about my attitude and my posture, I think there is ample opportunity to be negative in this world, there’s a lot to be afraid of, there’s a lot to complain about. There’s not a shortage of reasons to gossip, or grown. And so for me, I again, take very seriously my role of being a marketplace, Shepherd, I’m leading those sheep, whether or not they know, that’s what’s happening, right. And so it is leadership by example, it is coming in. And you know, you don’t have to be super sunshiny all the time. But a smile goes a long way, a good morning goes a long way, just those things and, and just having a positive attitude towards problems, you know, having a solutions, minded, you know, being using my creativity to be solutions minded, versus just like getting into the muck in the mire with people. One of the things that I have implemented in the last number of assignments that I’ve had is I do a thing called Coffee with Carla. And what I do is I schedule one to one meetings with each of my employees. And I just use it to get to know them as human people. And so what I believe in those meetings, I mean, we talk about what’s your favorite food, and you know, what’s your favorite music and all that kind of what some would consider surfacey things. But then I get into what’s an accomplishment? You’re the most proud of? What is a fun fact about you? What Yeah, tell me about your Enneagram type of your working genius, and I really take the time to hear their story. I think each person is so fascinating. And when I give them that dedicated hour, where I’m face to face with them, locking eyes with them, I really believe and I pray, Lord, help me to see them the way you see them, because you delight in them, and you’re fascinated by them. And so help me to have a facial expression that reflects that. So that if nobody else in their life or nobody else in their day, sees them that they feel seen by me. Yeah. As a representative of you,

    Paige C. Clark 25:04
    that’s beautiful. And I think too, like, there might be a tendency to kind of overcomplicate faith in the workplace. But I will say like I had a co worker who, whenever she would message you on Slack, she would just be like, hey, Paige, how are you? Or how’s it going? And she wouldn’t get to the next work thing until I answered. Usually, when we’re sending message, Hey, how’s it going? Can you help me with this? Right, like and going down the list? And really, she started with the human approach. Yeah, and started and kind of doing that and adjusting the mindset, in meetings or on in one on ones where we’re like, okay, human first, work second, right. I think that has a really strong impact on our relationships with people.

    Carla H. Hayden 25:57
    It really does. And today, in today’s world, you really can’t have enough empathy for people. And you can’t encourage them too much. You know, these are the two things that for me, well, I guess three, excellence, empathy, and encouragement. That’s what I bring to the workplace as an imager of God. And I’m the only female on an all male leadership team in a pretty male dominated industry. And that’s taken some courage and confidence on my part to be fully female. In that space. Yeah. Which looks a lot like nurturing. Yeah. And what I have found is that, even if it’s foreign to them, they want that they want it. And, and so that is just something that I’ve, I’ve had to lean into and rely on God to give me the affirmation for, because in the beginning, I think it feels a little like, Oh, she’s very empathetic, or, wow, she’s really taking the more human approach, you know, and it’s not that the bottom line and the numbers don’t matter. It’s just that data is more than numbers, data is also story. And kind of leaning into that story side of things with people, not just what are you producing? What are you closing? What do you you know, what are you checking off?

    Paige C. Clark 27:16
    Yeah, and I think too, especially in today’s day and age, with like, being a female in the workplace, I feel like there’s been kind of a trend to have to match your male counterparts, instead of stepping into what you into your fullness as a woman?

    Carla H. Hayden 27:38
    Yes, I agree with that.

    Paige C. Clark 27:40
    I feel like that’s like, that’s exactly what you’re saying of like, it doesn’t look the same. And the fact that you are more nurturing and more, I guess, humanizing isn’t a sign of weakness, it’s a sign of fullness in your femininity, or whatever you want to call it. And that’s how you’re called to lead.

    Carla H. Hayden 28:03
    It’s true. It’s true. And we all have the same objectives that we have to meet as a company, right? But the way that we get there could be different. And so again, it goes back to aligning with that company’s values, aligning with how they want to get to the end, that’s really important for me, like in an interview process, those are the things I’m I’m vetting before I take a job, you know, before accepting an assignment is, you know, like, does this is this going to compromise who I am first and foremost, as a Christian? Secondly, is there a place for me here do Are they really going to allow me to be fully me? Yeah, and all that that means?

    Paige C. Clark 28:46
    Yeah, and I think for I mean, I can’t really speak for the male listeners out there. But I from, from what I’ve experienced, good kind of stewardship of your mail. And this in the workplace, looks a lot like strong and thoughtful leadership, in terms of setting the tone for meetings or for conversations on that level, and then also extending, I, I’ve experienced a lot of like, the males extending equal ground in a meeting, if that makes sense. Yeah, of like giving everyone a voice at the table. It might not be weighted equally in their minds, but the good leaders I’ve seen have accounted for all the voices in the room.

    Carla H. Hayden 29:35
    Right? Well, and again, it goes back to walking in excellence in your job, your work is going to speak for itself. So male or female, if you’re not doing a great job. Yes, it you’re going to have a really difficult time gaining the respect of your leadership. But if you’re if you’re doing a good job that’s noticed, especially in this day and age, so

    Paige C. Clark 29:59
    yeah, so So interesting. And I think there’s just like, again, we’re gonna have to have another conversation about male and female energies in the workplace and how to step into that, because that’s a whole

    Carla H. Hayden 30:12
    other thing. That’s a whole nother conversation as

    Paige C. Clark 30:16
    a few conversations.

    Carla H. Hayden 30:19
    Back up could be season three.

    Paige C. Clark 30:20
    Yeah, yeah, exactly. So stepping into your assignment, how would one know what their assignment is?

    Carla H. Hayden 30:29
    That’s a really great question. I, I can’t speak for everyone I know, for me, it has, it has kind of felt and manifested very similarly from from assignment to assignment. And usually it starts with some type of level of discomfort. And I can liken it to, you know, I’ve had three kids, it’s, it’s when you first start feeling those contractions, you’re like, you know, they don’t just come on suddenly, you know, like sharp shooting pain, it’s more of like, a little bit, that doesn’t feel so good. You know, but but you’re still breathing. Okay, you’re walking around, you’re carrying on with life. Yeah. And then it increases over time. And so when I start to experience that, it’s really, it’s, again, it’s an invitation from God into a conversation, like, what’s happening here. And usually, his response to me is like, just start noticing, just start paying attention. You know, and usually, after that, there will be emails that might come from people I haven’t talked to in a while, or, you know, things that might surface random things, podcasts, billboards, like, whatever, where you’re just like, interesting, I’m seeing two or three of the same type of thing, what’s happening. So it’s really just following the breadcrumbs. But for me, it’s, it’s that fanciness, that like level of discomfort, first, it’s having a conversation with God of like, okay, it’s happening. But for anyone who has ever birth to humans, you know, labor could be an hour, it could be a day, like you don’t know, you know, so just because you’re feeling that, I would encourage people, just that initial feeling doesn’t mean turn in your two weeks notice the next day, it’s just an invitation of like, Oh, something is stirring. And so my encouragement in those seasons is like, just stay focused, stay focused, and stay faithful on your job on your assignment, your current assignment, until you actually no. And then things start to open up doors usually start to open up, or I’ll put my feelers out and just say, hey, you know, I might, I might be back on the market soon. If you happen to know of anybody that could use my skills, my experience, let me know, and we’ll just see. Because even when a new assignment is given, like I think about David, like he was anointed king, and then stayed in the, in the, in the shepherd role for many years. Yeah. And so I think, you know, we just there’s, there’s a level of understanding the timing of God and things.

    Paige C. Clark 33:02
    Yeah, yeah, I made a pretty big, I guess, slightly traumatic job change last year. And if anyone wants to go watch my video of like, my current state of mind, it’s on my LinkedIn where I posted a very, like, I probably would not have posted that today. Where I’m like, Is my sweatshirt no makeup on, it was like, 11pm. I was like, highly emotional, but like sitting in my closet talking about, like, how, how I could be really upset about what was happening at work, but also at the same time, God’s peace, and that was so overwhelming. And that was the first time I have ever experienced, like, a peace beyond all understanding.

    Carla H. Hayden 33:53
    I’m so glad that you said that. Because that really is a big part of this for me. You know, I, I follow the piece, not the paper. So for me, sometimes my assignments have seemed like a step back in my career. In some cases, they’ve been a, a cut and pay or a reduction in responsibility. And, you know, I think, from a from a worldly human standpoint, it’s like, You’re going the wrong direction. You need to go up the ladder. And what I’ve said is, I my career has been less climbing a corporate ladder and more scaling a rock wall, like sometimes you’re moving just laterally, sometimes you’re going down and then back up. Sometimes you’re, you know, kind of taking two or three steps at a time just because you happen to get some good footing. And so yeah, I would say like, follow the piece. Don’t follow the paper.

    Paige C. Clark 34:52
    Gosh, that’s good, Carla. And I mean, it’s true and funny enough like I Um, my husband has since I guess, like, repented of his mindset and this in that season, but like, I was like Zen, I was good. I was like, God, you got this? Yeah. And he could not chill with it. He was like, so uneasy in it. And I was like, no, like, it’s fine. Like, but when is it going to be fine? I’m like, I don’t know, God knows, I don’t know. But it was funny to see like a really clear kind of black and white version of like, the two sides of the coin that can happen have like, he was following the paper in that regard of like, Hey, you don’t have another job. You can’t quit it. And I was like, no, like, that’s what God’s telling me to do. So it kind of like makes sense. And yeah. And going down that path.

    Carla H. Hayden 35:52
    Absolutely. And there is a world in which having other mature believers speak into that pray with you through it, you know, and just getting that confirmation. Another thing that for me has God has been so gracious to provide is I get an assignment Scripture before every new assignment. Wow. And I get to hold on to that in the transition phase. Because oftentimes, it’s not as clear cut is like, you’re done here. And now you’re going there there is there’s a phase there’s kind of like a pre during a post. Yeah. And so being reminded in those shakier times of like, I make the right decision, and having the actual word of God, that I can speak over myself, pray over myself put on a post it all the things he has given me one in every job in every assignment I’ve had since 2015. Wow. Yeah, that’s beautiful.

    Paige C. Clark 36:48
    And like something to center yourself on 100%, when like, the times get tough, because like, I feel like there might be the inclination as Christians to be like, Oh, I love my job every single day. And it’s always perfect. And, you know, birds helped me get dressed in the morning, but like, that’s not real. And so difficulty happens. What would you say to someone who’s like, I’m experiencing difficulty in my job? Does that mean I’m in the wrong assignment?

    Carla H. Hayden 37:22
    Not not typically. I would say that the Bible tells us that we don’t battle against flesh and blood, we battle against spiritual forces. And those forces are actively operating in opposition to us inheriting and possessing all that God has prepared beforehand for us to walk in. And so sometimes that difficulty that we’re experiencing, it’s not because we’re doing something wrong. As a matter of fact, it could be because we’re getting closer to stepping into the thing that is right. And I would just remind people that not all stress is bad. There is good stress, like when we think about, you know, people that lift weights, or do you know, weight bearing type workouts, that’s how muscle is built, it’s a breaking down, and then a repairing and rebuilding of those fibers. It’s not always the breaking down. Like we know, like, when it comes to trauma and things it’s like too much too soon, you know, that so we’re not, we’re not talking about chronic stress, we’re just talking about difficulties, inconveniences, pressure, it’s not always bad. It’s, it’s sometimes for our good and for our benefit. And when I think about that I think about well, then what is true in the body is also true for our souls and our spirits that sometimes God does allow us to walk through those hard and heavy times, because he’s using it as a season of training and preparation and strengthening because he knows what’s coming up next for us. And he is actively wanting us to get the reward. He’s actively wanting us to take on greater levels of responsibility. And that’s his way of preparing us for it. And so, you know, again, follow the piece, not the paper, you know, if if it’s hard, but you have that undeniable peace about it, then press in because that’s you’re actually being prepared for something great. upside.

    Paige C. Clark 39:22
    Yeah. And I think once you step into kind of like meditation with God and like with his word, you grow in discernment around God pushing you in a different direction. And then like earthly and spiritual forces pulling you are trying to create a divide. It does feel very different. Yeah. And a lot of it does. Yeah, and a lot of the times I think like where I’m like, Okay, I was a candidate to like, Okay, if I have to ask like, is this God, it’s probably not God. Like, is When I when I got married, I go, how did I know my husband was the right person? Because I didn’t even have to consider is this the right person? I just I just knew it was the right person for me to marry. And so when it comes to God, like, if I have to question like, is this God pulling me in this direction? It’s probably not.

    Carla H. Hayden 40:20
    Yeah, yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 40:21
    So you’ve been mentioning a lot about faithfulness in your assignment? What does that mean, to be faithful in your assignment? And not just to do it?

    Carla H. Hayden 40:34
    Yeah, I think it, I kind of take it back to what I had mentioned a little bit earlier about David, you know, David was a shepherd, first and foremost, and God was using that season of his life seasons of his life to not only strengthen him physically, but to prepare him for how to lead. He was leading actual sheep. And then he was leading the sheep of Israel. And I think about that, because, again, he got anointed, and then it was like, All right, you got to go back to work the next day, you know, and so even if in your heart or in your mind, God’s given you a picture of where you could be or what you could do, whether it’s in your nine to five or your side, hustle, or whatever, you still have today, you still have the work for today that you need to put your hands to. And so faithfulness looks like inviting God in and asking him, how do you want me to partner with you today? What are you doing in your kingdom in the lives of the people that I work with? Or even in my household? And and how do you want me to partner with you in those things? And sometimes that’s send a really well crafted email. And sometimes it’s take a coworker to lunch and listen, and sometimes it’s, you know, yeah, exactly, I could look like a lot of different things, it could look like good craftsmanship. You know, if you’re in the blue collar field, I mean, it’s going to look like that it’s going to look differently for different people. But what it is going to look like is recognizing that we do have a master that is coming back. And that is going to hold us to account for the things that have been entrusted to us, you know, I think about the parable of the talents. And whether you have been given one or five or 10, you have to live in accordance with what you’ve been given. If you’re highly talented and skilled and gifted. You can’t be lazy about that. Because God has gifted you with those things. For other people, the gift isn’t for you, you know, when a tree bears fruit, it’s not for the trees benefit, it’s for others to enjoy. It’s the same thing with the gifts that God’s given us. So whether you’re a writer or a singer, or you’re an executive, or you’re a construction worker, whatever that looks like, the gifts and the skills and the talents and the experience that God has allowed you to have are actually for the benefit of others. He uses it to benefit you in exchange through your paycheck and your benefits and all that kind of good stuff. But faithfulness looks like recognizing that you’re playing a part in God’s plan, and, and recognizing that you going to work every day that there isn’t just the work. There’s the work beneath the work. Yeah, that he’s inviting you into.

    Paige C. Clark 43:38
    Yeah, and I feel like, at least it’s true for me when I was kind of going through like the high school college phase where I was like, What does God want for my life? Kind of what we were talking about the beginning of like, this existential question. And I felt like there was a lot of it might have been self imposed pressure, I don’t even want to say cultural pressure, it was probably just my brain. Like that I kind of realized that got stuck in the mentality that like, if I wasn’t in ministry, then I’m not building the kingdom. And I feel like that’s the furthest thing for for like, from the truth because what what you’re saying is like, it’s not always just about like, what tangible things you’re doing for the kingdom, right? Yeah, because there’s, God works in other like a crazy amount of ways and, and I had a one of the members of my small group she even said, like, God might have had you just for that one. He might have had you there just for the one and if your whole life, you were in that job, and it was just for that one time, and that’s worth it. And that was like whoa, like that took me like, took my breath away. cuz I’m like, man like that is like one, can he do more than one? Of course he can’t. He’s got he can do whatever he wants. But like, maybe it was like a humbling moment of like, maybe I’m just being called to serve one person in my job. And everything that I’m doing is leading up to that moment, or maybe has like, already that moments already passed. And I’m kind of on the tail end of that. Yeah, it’s humbling.

    Carla H. Hayden 45:32
    It’s very humbling. And I think about the scripture in Matthew six that talks about that. God sees what you do in the secret place. And he rewards you openly. And I hope that that comes to bear upon people not as like, you know, but more of like, even when you feel like what does it matter, like, my boss isn’t even noticing that I’m, you know, spending the extra five minutes proofreading this email or you know, whatever that is. But God sees it. God sees everything. He sees the posture of your heart towards your work. So even if externally, you’re doing a good job, he’s also seeing the posture of your heart that your desire to love other people, your desire to serve Him and image him in that way. It it all counts, it all matters. And it’s all it’s all going to be worth it in the end. Yeah,

    Paige C. Clark 46:31
    yeah. I worked at a summer camp one year and they called it bumped the lamp. And like that was the going above and beyond and doing things with excellence was called bumping the lamp. Because here’s a bit of a throwback. The Who Framed Roger Rabbit up. And there’s a scene where Roger Rabbit and I can’t remember the main character’s name are like wrestling and tussling and getting into it and like this back storage room. And Roger hits the lamp, and the lamp swings, but the lamp was on. And they had to they spent hundreds of hours re animating that scene to get the light to swing over the scene. Right? This was back before like, really advanced animation was happening. And it was all because Roger bumped the lamp. And so every time I hear like go that extra little mile do the things with excellence. It’s just a bump the lamp. But no one would ever see that in this film. Now no one ever thinks of that Glee, and it’s not recognized. Gotcha, yes.

    Carla H. Hayden 47:40
    Why I fun fact about me, I read from cover to cover books, I read the acknowledgments section, I read the dedication section, I watch the credits on a movie. And even if I can’t read all those names, I do sit in awe at like, it took this many people like this isn’t. It’s not just the lead actor or actress, it’s not just the name on the front of the book cover that, you know, the author, it’s many, many, many people contributing to that work coming to fruition. And sometimes the contribution is, you know, thank you so so for watching my kids or for you know, for cooking dinner while I went in my hole to write or whatever. And I just think about that. So, you know, we’re gonna be on, we’re gonna be on credit scenes all over the place, and we don’t even know it. And so

    Paige C. Clark 48:33
    that, gosh, that’s beautiful. I actually I’ve thought very similar things with the credits and movies because I’m like, wow, it might not mean a lot to me. It probably meant the world to this person, and this person and this person and this person, and their parents and their parents and their grandma and grandpa and maybe their kids one day. Funny enough, my husband he had to get he’s a trademark lawyer. And so one of his clients had like a trademark problem with a in a movie. And so at the at the end of the credits in one of the one of these movies, it says like so and so is a trademark of Abba and my husband’s like, I made that happen. I was like, I felt so proud. I was like, Okay, so like, this is just like a little disclaimer at the end of the movie, let alone like people who work on the sound and the the props and the wardrobe and all.

    Carla H. Hayden 49:35
    It all matters. It all matters.

    Paige C. Clark 49:37
    It all matters. Well, gosh, you got into a lot of it. But I have a feeling I know what you’re going to say but I want to give you the opportunity to actually say it and add anything else you want to say. But what is something that our listeners can do to implement a faith building discipline or practice into their life or their work? work life, like this week as they’re listening to this?

    Carla H. Hayden 50:03
    Yeah, I mean, I would say, schedule your time with God, you know, have a daily quiet time, if you’re not a morning person, you’re not a morning person, but have a daily time with the Lord. And I really encourage people who, you know, maybe don’t have one yet to schedule it in your calendar, the way that you would a meeting, or an appointment, because that’s what it is it the living God wants to meet with you. He wants to share his heart with you. He wants to bring healing to you by speaking truth over places where lies, you know, might be residing, he wants to be able to share his heart with you for not only you, but for the people that you’re encountering in your job, and it’s going to be the most transformative meeting of your day. So make the time for it. And so I would just say that, and then, as I kind of mentioned earlier, read scripture out loud, like read it with your out loud voice. And even if it’s just, you know, if you’re in a place where you don’t have a lot of space, and there’s other people there, even just reading it out loud under your breath. There’s power in that. And so yeah, I would just say schedule your time with God. And read the word within your out loud voice and

    Paige C. Clark 51:22
    have it in your coffee with Carla so you can have like coffee with God. It’s your one on one time with God.

    Carla H. Hayden 51:28
    It is I have it. It’s been in like it’s literally in my calendar. And it’s just a recurring appointment every single day. You don’t have to reschedule it. I don’t I it’s every day even when I’m on vacation like that. That’s how I start my day.

    Paige C. Clark 51:41
    Yeah. Oh, that’s beautiful. Carla, thank you so much. And we will talk again. I’m like ready to dig into some of these things that we didn’t have time for today. But where can people find you?

    Carla H. Hayden 51:53
    Well, they can connect with me on Instagram. I’m at Coffee underscore with underscore Carla. And also on LinkedIn. I’m at Carla H. Hayden on LinkedIn.

    Paige C. Clark 52:04
    Lovely, thank you so much, Carla, for joining us and we’ll catch you next time. Sounds great. Thanks. Good. Thanks for joining us. If you liked what you were listening to make sure you subscribe and hit those five stars and we’ll catch you on the next episode.

  • 9 to 5 Faith Podcast: Episode 5

    This is a transcript from episode 5 of the 9 to 5 Faith Podcast with Paige C. Clark.

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    Start of Podcast

    Paige C. Clark 00:36
    This is Paige C. Clark and you’re listening to the 9 to 5 Faith podcast. Well, welcome Eden. I’m so glad to have you on the podcast. Happy Thursday, almost weekend. All good. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do? And yeah,

    Eden Estabrook 00:57
    absolutely. So I am in digital marketing. So my, I guess my, my education was actually in professional writing. And that kind of tossed me into the communications world. People always find it funny because I work in manufacturing now. But in college, I actually studied medieval studies as my minor. So it’s like I went from, I went from, like, archaic documentation to robotics. But like,

    Paige C. Clark 01:24
    Oh, cool. We’re gonna pause there. What were you gonna do with? Was it medieval history?

    Eden Estabrook 01:32
    Medieval Studies! Yeah, um, I have my original plan was to work for a year after college and then go for a PhD. And then I ended up loving the industry manufacturing, like so much that I just, I never left. So here I am. And I’m just like, That’s

    Paige C. Clark 01:52
    So cool, though. You were the first person I have ever met who study

    Eden Estabrook 01:58
    medieval stuff. Yeah, people find it pretty interesting, especially when they learn what industry and what sort of life you know, advanced technologies I work with. And you started and you studied what I’m like, Yeah, English with medieval studies. Anything that you put your mind to?

    Paige C. Clark 02:13
    Right? So you work in manufacturing in the digital marketing space?

    Eden Estabrook 02:19
    Yeah, yeah. I’m 26. So I’ve been in my career now for we’re coming out in over five years. I graduated a little bit early. So I consider myself in that awkward stage between I’m not quite a nine to five newbie, but I’m also not like a veteran. Yeah. I’m pretty good. I’m pretty established. But I’ve still got a lot of things to learn. So that’s why I always find my age is pretty helpful whenever talking about work, because I’m in that nice little middle ground.

    Paige C. Clark 02:46
    Right, right. Right around the quarter life crisis. So yeah,

    Eden Estabrook 02:50
    I mean, I’m coming up on that midlife crisis soon. So you

    Paige C. Clark 02:54
    know, the quarter life crisis? Have you heard of this? No. It’s like when you turn 25. It’s like you have half of a midlife crisis, where it’s like, oh, you have like an identity question. It’s like fresh out of college, you’re finding your surrounding like all of that. It’s called the quarter life crisis.

    Eden Estabrook 03:16
    Well, if I graduated early, then maybe I’ll just have mine a little bit later. So maybe it’s coming this

    Paige C. Clark 03:21
    year. That’s how it counts. Well, good luck with that. Oh, yeah. Here.

    Eden Estabrook 03:25
    I didn’t study math. Let’s just put that out there. So so.

    Paige C. Clark 03:30
    Well, fair enough. And talk to us a little bit about like, your faith and a little bit about your faith journey, whatever you want to share with that.

    Eden Estabrook 03:42
    Yeah, so the nutshell version, so I was raised in a Christian home, parents are first generation believers. So I grew up in church grew up in, you know, nursery, I did all the things or anyone is familiar with, you know, I just wanna say church culture. I did all the things. Alana is you know, Bible Quizzing. I mean, the whole idea, so I’ve done them all. Yeah, I went to Vacation Bible schools every summer. So it was very ingrained in my everyday life from a very young age. But as all teenagers or young adults, it can happen at different times for everybody. There eventually comes a point where you need to make your faith your own and not the faith that your parents you know, kept you in. During your, you know, your dependency years. You could say, and for me, that happened around 16 So right before I went off to college, I got I just kind of had my I’m gonna say like my moment of like, okay, am I going all in? Or am I going to time to just, you know, walk away because there was not without trials. Absolutely. And don’t get me wrong. I still struggle sometimes when you think through like you know especially when the when tough seasons are there you wonder like, Is God even real? And that that age that age range for me really kind of had to bring that into perspective on Okay, things are really rough right now is my answer to the solution going to be leaning into my faith and making my faith my own or abandoning it and kind of, you know, moving forward without it. And I went in the direction of embracing that I got baptized right before I went back to college, and then kind of, you know, the rest is the rest is history. I’m still here today. So,

    Paige C. Clark 05:34
    that’s awesome. And how long have you been in your current position at work? Or like with this company doing this thing?

    Eden Estabrook 05:44
    Technically a year, okay, I’ve worked with this company longer in other capacities, but I’ve worked in this particular position for almost a year now.

    Paige C. Clark 05:54
    Yeah, that’s awesome. And work from home.

    Eden Estabrook 05:59
    Mostly, our one of our plants is in Charlotte. So I drive down every so often. But, you know, nine times out of 10 You guys are gonna get to see my home office and my favorite cat posts are right behind me to motivate

    Paige C. Clark 06:13
    those sir yeah, this is take me back to those like book fairs in elementary school that like just buy those posters at my little lack that lackluster over here, which is like all white, but it’ll get a makeover soon. So I kind of like to start this by asking, what’s your typical week or day look like because I feel like it looks different, a little different for everyone. And how you integrate faith into that is also a little bit different.

    Eden Estabrook 06:53
    Yeah, um, so I’m type A, so I love things to be the same. And I strive for consistency in my day to day life. So with it being worked from home, you know, it’s wake up, make the treacherous journey from my bedroom, to my office, and start, start the day. I, you know, try to find time to work out as well. And then, within all that, you know, trying to find the time and, you know, to be honest, sometimes motivation for one on one with God, or, you know, because it’s, there’s so much there’s only so much time in the day and it’s like, I find as I move forward in my career, I found I had to wake up early and earlier to fit everything in. So, you know, I’m always the first to admit I’m never I’m not perfect, you know, there are days that I fix it sleep or I picked the gym or I picked something else over God. And that’s a that’s a process. But other than that is that is fairly consistent does work. And then the evenings are where, like, week, week, day trip activities are so like, I’m involved in a in a church, small group, that’s after hours. Anytime they do, like a church serving event, those are usually on the weekends, you know, sometimes after hours as well during the week, like if it’s a children’s event, like a festival or something. So those those randomized throughout the different weeks, but complex schedule to be honest with you. Well,

    Paige C. Clark 08:35
    well you were telling me before we hit record that you also have to wake up at some weird hours to to like talk to some international

    Eden Estabrook 08:44
    Yes, I work across all all time zones. It’s, it’s it’s it can be that can be a fun time. Normally they’ll they’re pretty good at flexing. So I tried to say I think the earliest I’ll be willing to wake up for a meeting is six o’clock, but that has to be like drastic, you know, we can’t find any other time.

    Paige C. Clark 09:05
    Right? Yeah, I actually we work with a team in Poland and one of my co workers who’s in America was like I’m just gonna pull an all nighter just to get a work session in with our Poland team. And I was like, more power to you buddy. Like I need my sleep.

    Eden Estabrook 09:24
    I yeah, I can’t do that often, but I will in a pit.

    Paige C. Clark 09:29
    Right right. So what does your one like? What do you do to make sure that like your one on one time with God happens?

    Eden Estabrook 09:42
    Yeah, and I think so. When it’s, I guess if you’re if you’ve been in the church, your idea of a one on one is probably the first picture that comes to your mind is someone sitting in an arm in arm chair with a Bible and like reading, you know, reading something with a cup of coffee. See. And I think that’s definitely one way of doing it. And that’s what I strive for. I think that’s where if you know, the study of God’s word is crucial. But, you know, as I found that to be hard to do all the time, for my for myself, especially since I do want to start the day, with God versus envy, you know, I’m more of a morning person than I’m a night person. So I know some people get around the whole waking up early by doing their Bible study at night, I tried it. I’m just my brain is too bogged down from everything that I did throughout the day to really do that. Yeah. So what I’ve tried, what I’ve been trying to explore is, you know, what does one on one time with God look like? And you know, I think that can be studied. And, you know, I’m in, you know, several Community Bible studies going through different books of the Bible. And so that aspect is very much there. But from a one on one perspective, that can be as much as you know, talking to God, while you’re frustrated with a co worker, or you know, like, you know, prayer is not, it’s cluesive, to stillness. I think that that should that prayer should have some still quiet moments. But there’s nothing in the rulebook that says I can, you know, chat with God about my day, while I’m getting dressed, or while I’m, you know, brushing my teeth or brushing my hair, you know, whatever it is. And so, especially as a young adult, there’s so many things that are that’s vying for your time. That’s one way that I’ve tried to incorporate that one on one time with the Lord throughout the day is, you know, just conversation.

    Paige C. Clark 11:53
    Yeah. Yeah. And I think like working from home as like, a different element to it, too, because like, depending on like, how much space you have, like, your bedroom might also be your office might also be you know, your workout gym might also, you know, yeah, do you wear different hats at your workspace, but like, your space also might wear different hats. And I think like, I don’t know, for me, I am type A, but like, I need like, a space to really commune with God in. And so like having my office at home? Yeah, it’s one of my spaces. So definitely froze it for a loop.

    Eden Estabrook 12:42
    Yes, it’s also and so I live with my sister. So we’re all we’re both adults, as well as my parents. So I have a very full house. And so sometimes, I think, the quietness, if I want something like that, then I’d have to ask you to go somewhere else to kind of I’ve gone to I’ve gone to coffee shops, or you know, just sometimes just to sit on one of their couches and walk right. And, you know, I’m also I can be sort of easily distracted. So as I’m reading something, I’ll think there’s something like that before, you know what I’ve somehow transition from, you know, the book of John two. Oh, what I’m doing in four weeks?

    Paige C. Clark 13:23
    Yes, yeah. Yes. To all of that. Just as a reminder, for those listening, we are all imperfect. Just we are alert. we all we all fail and fall short of the glory of um, yeah. So thinking about like, your work day? How? How does God kind of intersect or show up in like your regular work, whether it’s like with coworkers or with just how you treat people or, or what have you?

    Eden Estabrook 13:58
    Yeah, that’s interesting, I would say that the feedback that I’ve received on myself is that I’m an abnormally nice person. Which, and this has been throughout I think, I’ve been in four jobs since I graduated college. And a lot of them have always mentioned, I have a noticeable genuine love for people. Which is an interesting comment because I’m very introverted. So like, you know, I wouldn’t consider myself like, you know, I’m not a huge people person, you know, a long time like it’s but you know, from a, from the non religious standpoint that my coworkers come from, what I interpret that as what they’re seeing is, you know, God’s biggest commandment is to love others. And you know, and I fall short, like, you know, gossip is a real big problem in every company that I’ve worked at, and I’ve fallen into it just like everyone else. But even within the flaws overall, you know, when I talk to someone I try to remember, you know, that they’re still made in the image of God that, you know, they are loved by Him. And I should try my absolute hardest to see them the same way that God does. If I failed at it, you know, I know I have, but that is probably, I think the most noticeable thing that you can do when standing trying to stand out as a Christian is how you treat other people. Yeah, in the workplace.

    Paige C. Clark 15:48
    Yeah. And I mean, you hit the nail on the head, when it’s like, like, what they see in you as positivity or easy to get along with, or really kind person. Like, we know, we know as God, we know, Jesus. Like, we have this light. And I think that’s like, I think we as like a culture have, have more of a way of thinking, like, we have to say something or do something to, you know, show up for God. It’s like, no, like, that’s gonna show up whether he wants to or not like it is our job to be like the vessels and to be like, the easiest thing we can do is to like, be a nice person and treat people with kindness.

    Eden Estabrook 16:44
    Or you’d be amazed, like, what? People catch up on that, you know, you’re not even trying, right? And it’s just like, God’s God’s love can come through even if you’re not telling somebody or I’m not, I’m not walking through my office, Hey, God loves you, and He loves you. Like, I don’t, I don’t do that. Like, I don’t think I’ve even you know, I don’t even think I’ve mentioned my face. But what tends to happen, and what has happened in a lot of my different jobs is that they, my co workers will pick up on something, and then that usually spurs a conversation. Like, I think when I worked, like before my nine to five, when I work in fast, casual food to pay for right pay for my college, I had one coworker asked like, why don’t you swear, because I worked in the kitchen. So I, you know, there’s a, unfortunately, a lot of cursing in the restaurant business. And that and that, just that comment alone provided me an opportunity to talk about why, what, you know why I believe what, what comes out of my mouth matters. And, you know, that wasn’t even something that says I wasn’t I wasn’t trying to do anything. It was just how I acted because of what I believe about God carried over into, you know, was noticed, and then it eventually drove them crazy as to why it wasn’t changing. And then they just asked me so

    Paige C. Clark 18:14
    yeah, yeah. And I think too, like, there’s the, you know, we’re supposed to show Jesus and Jesus is kind of countercultural. And I think that makes people curious, when when we’re acting in a way that is probably different from the norm or from what the rest of the herd is doing. Right? Like, we kind of stand out in that way. And I think that I saw your really good example of like, standing out that way.

    Eden Estabrook 18:44
    Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, once again, I know you mentioned earlier, like, we all fall short, we’re all imperfect, like, right, you know, if my family was into this, they’d be like, Well, I happen to know that Eden was you know, made a mistake in this area, conversation on the phone and like, and it does happen like we’re not like I I got mad at I got mad at a at a situation, you know, last week and I, you know, probably didn’t deal with it as

    Paige C. Clark 19:12
    the yelling fight with Miko work. Yes. Like it happens. But also there’s forgiveness. Yeah, there’s forgiveness and also just like humaneness and all of that, I think like, I think it’s also a chance for, like Christians to show like, their humility in the situation of like, once they acknowledge that they are wrong and that like, there is forgiveness and like, we should seek forgiveness from others like that. There’s humility in that because it’s hard to go up to like a co worker and like, apologize, right? Like, it’s weird. Yeah, I always felt weird to like, I don’t know. Like guilt inducing, but it’s also like, it’s like here, here’s my here’s my weakness. Here’s my shame. I’m acknowledging it in front of you. Right?

    Eden Estabrook 20:04
    I know that’s a, that’s a very big deal. I feel like at least within my work culture very, you know, you show your best, your best self like I don’t, I don’t like to tell people when I’m having a bad week, or if I’m, you know, I’m struggling with, you know, something personally that might be spilling into, you know, my work day. And it’s not fun. But mean, as you mentioned, that sort of vulnerability is countercultural, and a good way of especially admitting wrong, which is something I’m horrible if I like to think I’m right all the time. But it’s really necessary, sometimes in a really good way of building trust with your co workers to

    Paige C. Clark 20:46
    Yeah, and I remember, oh, gosh, I remember I was in a meeting. And I was in a meeting with other non Christians, for as far as I know. And there was a situation where I had forgotten someone’s name, like someone I’d worked with, like, really frequently. I just like blanked out on their name. I was like, Oh, I’m sorry. Like, I totally, totally could not place his name. And this person kind of snapped back at me. It was like, like, you apologize too much. Don’t Don’t apologize. You know, this whole idea of like, women shouldn’t apologize. And I’m like, no, like, I am genuinely sorry that this person name, this person’s name has escaped me because like, I want this person to feel known and cared about and valued. And I want the other people even they weren’t even in the meeting. And I want the other people in the meeting to know that I know and care about this person. And part of that is remembering a name. And yeah, that’s like, Absolutely. That was one situation I like had forgotten about that. But like, you bringing that up, I was like, yeah, like, you know, just apologizing sometimes. And it doesn’t have to be a bad thing. And it’s okay to apologize. Even though some people say like, you don’t need to apologize, be unapologetic. Sometimes it’s okay to Yeah, it’s,

    Eden Estabrook 22:15
    well, I think what’s important there, I think you might have, like, you brought up a really good point of is, you know, I believe that that person has the best of intentions. Like he really, or he or she I don’t know. Yeah, I think you specified Yeah, I think she brought up a, you know, she was she has the best of intentions. And so like, Stop apologizing, like, it’s okay. But she’s looking at potentially through a different lens. And yeah, and we are I believers, and we need to also as we’re interacting, you know, looking at things through that, you know, biblical lens, you know, my dad had always told me that like scripture is kind of our, our benchmark for you know, whether a thing is something is, you know, is good or bad, like, what does the Bible say about it? You know, and so when you look at things through that lens, something as simple as like, you know, God loves the sparrows, why wouldn’t you want me to try and remember somebody’s net? Like, you look at things differently, yeah, things differently when you have that. That perspective?

    Paige C. Clark 23:12
    Yeah. Yeah. And, and you hit on something earlier that like, I want to come back to because it’s been something that’s been like, really heavy hitting for me, because like, I guess in like high school, I didn’t think that gossip would be a problem outside of like, teenage years. Like, I didn’t think that the worst gossip I would ever encounter would be in the workplace. So can you say like, something more about that? And like, I don’t know, how you combat it, or like how you kind of check yourself with that.

    Eden Estabrook 23:49
    So my rule is, do my absolute hardest to not say anything, that I wouldn’t tell that person I tend to be a little bit more bold in that area. So maybe I push the lines on that. But I am willing to tell ya, if the if the opportunity is provided, but it’s a really hard one, because it’s so ingrained in our culture, and this is not even this is not even at work. This is churches and everything. Yeah. Like gossip is a real problem. And I don’t think, you know, my generation at least gives it the, the I would say the respect it deserves as like, in a way like it

    Paige C. Clark 24:41
    is yeah, yeah.

    Eden Estabrook 24:43
    It is. It’s a you know, it’s it’s not stealing, you know, it’s not, you know, more drastic, that more drastic sounding of the of the sins, but I do believe that it’s wrong and It’s so it’s a really hard one how I said how I combat it is trying to, you know, check myself when I’m talking to people, and you know what I say to that person. But I fall short in this area quite a bit, because, you know, due to just within just within work politics getting information is very helpful. And

    Paige C. Clark 25:22
    yeah, and I think I think one of the lines, that that, that why gossip is so hard to not only define, but also to kind of constrain and put within boundaries is like, when you’re stealing something from the supermarket, you’re taking the piece of gum, and you’re leaving with it, right. Like, it’s very clear, like what’s happening where you hit on a good point of like office politics and like business and like staying in the loop and like, knowing what’s going on, where does that line blur? That’s a hard to exact question to answer.

    Eden Estabrook 25:56
    Exactly, exactly. It’s a and I don’t have the answer. I mean, if you do great, please. Anyone that’s listening and has the answer, right? Yeah, because it’s still one that I struggle with. Because if I’m not in the loop, then I’m going to fall major, like, out of scope with a lot of my projects. So it’s part of part of it is, you know, trying to handle productivity. But, you know, there, I do think that there are lines, and I don’t, and I think sometimes those lines move based on what that particular, you know, conversation or a piece of gossip is in reference to if it’s about a person versus like, you know, a project team or like, I don’t, I don’t know, like,

    Paige C. Clark 26:45
    I don’t know. Yeah, hopefully, hopefully, as like, we get more episodes under our belt will like be able to, like expand this topic a little bit more. Because, like, for me to where I’ve ran into gossip, and like you say, like, I’ve fallen, fallen into it, and have really struggled with it, in the past is, I guess, like, guarding myself against hurt. And against, like, manipulation. And a lot of that is like, done through gossip of like, knowing which people act certain ways or will take advantage of people certain ways. And, and just being on guard on that. And so like, that’s where I’ve been put in situations where I’m like, Yes, like, I need to know what’s going on. Because also, I want to protect myself, and I want to make sure I’m acting appropriately for the situation. And and not kind of have, have one have that attack on me in whatever way? Yeah,

    Eden Estabrook 27:56
    I mean, for me, it’s partially a control issue I have, you know, I think that control issues almost come side by side with Type A personalities. But I, like, for me, knowing the information allows me to work around it. Like if I’m trying to get something done. And you know, I’ve worked at a big company, I’ve worked at a little company, and I’ve learned each one, you have to, you know, navigate things differently to, to get your to get your job done. And so, I that information is in my head critical. But then there’s also like, at what point am I talking myself into something that I know is wrong? Like, am I trying to justify my behavior? In order to, you know, keep going with it? If it’s, you know, surely not, you know, not biblical. I don’t have an answer.

    Paige C. Clark 28:43
    I might need to know answers. Right? Yes, I agree. And also, I’m like thinking to myself, like Paige, you should probably do some more research on this. And I probably will. And I hope to have many people on like yourself who can speak to it because I, I just, I was really naive, entering the workforce, of how prevalent it was, like, Sure, don’t steal from your company. Right, like, treat people nicely. that’s those are all really good things. But also, like, where’s the line of gossip and like, and how we can show the love of God through our actions in avoiding gossip.

    Eden Estabrook 29:31
    Yeah, one thing that I’ve always been really fired up about is I’ve always felt the gap in almost like Christian education, is that transition from college to the workforce? Like there’s so different and then you’re you’re almost you’re not even prepared for once you enter it like, oh, my gosh, like, what? Just what happened to my look? Yeah, like, you know, being surprised about gossip like, Oh, you think that’s like the teenagers? You know, I feel like it almost gets worse with adults. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 30:00
    So oh, it absolutely, it absolutely does. I don’t think I dealt with this issue as much as I did in adulthood. By any factor.

    Eden Estabrook 30:13
    There are whole life Instagram channels at this point dedicated to like, how people talk about things professionally. And basically, you know, the whole life professional ways to say things. Right? There’s a whole there’s almost a language to be in business. And it’s like, it’s so if nobody told you what it was gonna be like, Well, they didn’t tell me at least say I was all over. But yeah, I mean, I graduated. And you know, all of a sudden, I went from like, Yeah, time during the workday to, oh, I have to be at the same place Monday through Friday, nine to five, and then even then nine to five was sort of a lie. Because then you had I was commuting at the time. Yeah.

    Paige C. Clark 30:56
    For clarity sake, I say nine to five, because that’s how most people recognize it. But like, no one works nine to five, it’s eight to five. Where

    Eden Estabrook 31:06
    was that? Notice? Yeah, it just saw totally happen. And I mean, I was always doing that to begin with, because I liked to be productive before people got in. But so I would always start just a little bit early, but then you just noticed all of a sudden, you know, coming in early, or they’re, you know, they’re doing their nine to five is not true. It’s more like, seven sets if you’re dry. That’s true to the city. Like I mean, it can take up a large chunk of your time. You know, yeah, it’s like, it’s crazy, like, oh, nine to five, just eight hours. No. And then it’s somehow in between all the driving and the work. And you have to somehow feed yourself like, I mean, how does that work? That one?

    Paige C. Clark 31:55
    Yeah, so very true. And like, yeah, no one, no one gives you a heads up that the happiness is coming down, down your way. No, so but if you’re listening to this podcast, take this as your official warning, if you haven’t entered the workforce yet. This is your official warning that this stuff does happen.

    Eden Estabrook 32:17
    Yeah, absolutely. And

    Paige C. Clark 32:19
    I was thinking about it to have like, we probably spend more time at work or with our co workers, then we do our actual family. Oh, yeah, I haven’t done the actual math on it. I’m a comms major like you, or I’m in comms like you. But yeah, I haven’t done the math on it. And I don’t know if I will. But like the amount, the sheer amount of time that we spend with our co workers, and it is kind of like a second family.

    Eden Estabrook 32:52
    Yeah, you spend a lot of time with them. And like, you’re where you work that does influence you, you know, those people have an influence on you. And I think that’s to me, as I kind of progressed in my career, and my faith is why the importance of being in a church community outside of work, like I know, it’s an as you know, I’m 26, like, I’ve talked to a lot of young professionals who are like, you know, after work, I want to lay on the couch, and I want to watch TV, and I said, I hear you, but it’s so important, it is so important, counterbalance all the people that you’re hearing and talking to on a day to day basis, with time with other believers who are struggling through the same things that you are, so you can encourage each other. And, you know, it is it is worth dragging yourself off the couch. And yes, sometimes you are going to drag yourself off the couch and complain the entire drive. Yeah, but it’s so important to prioritize that time with church community, or Christian community. You know, you’re not in a church, but I mean, I highly recommend being in a church. I think that’s not only biblical, but helpful for your

    Paige C. Clark 34:01
    soul. Right.

    Eden Estabrook 34:06
    Because, yeah, it’s, it’s hard, why working is hard, like, and you need those people in your life to, you know, encourage you and, you know, bounce things off of like, I had this happen at work, was this wrong? Like and then if you don’t know, then, you know, work through the problem together.

    Paige C. Clark 34:25
    Yeah, and I think too, like, it provides like a level of accountability. I feel like the more and more I am involved in and ingrained in my church and church community, like the more accountability I have, because even even when he returned to the volume, I’m like, okay, so I meet like, once on Sundays, and then like, if I have a small group, it’s like halfway in the week. Well, there’s there’s like, not a whole lot of time to get up to mischief and between there like it’s easier to Uh, it’s easier to, you know, kind of follow those straight and narrow when you’re constantly being surrounded by this community that can keep you accountable.

    Eden Estabrook 35:11
    Okay, yeah, I mean, God has blessed us with technology, ology, and that is a great way to keep in touch with your brothers and sisters in Christ throughout the week. I know everybody hates group chats, I hate them as well.

    Paige C. Clark 35:22
    I love them. Oh my gosh, I love group chats.

    Eden Estabrook 35:27
    I know a lot of people who used to add them to a group chat, and they immediately you know,

    Paige C. Clark 35:32
    I love group chats, there’s so much fun,

    Eden Estabrook 35:35
    they’re fantastic for like, you know, dropping a prayer requests throughout the week. Like, you know, telling, you’re telling your church family, like, Hey, I’m having a really tough time this week with work and y’all, you know, take a moment to stop and pray for me, and vice versa, seeing what other people are struggling with throughout the week. And, you know, sometimes you may be able to support them within that, you know, but you’re never going to know, I always tell people, I can’t help you, or offer help or anything if I don’t know what the problem is. Right? That’s So always, always, always good to try and stay not just in a church community but invades in a church community, throughout. I think that’s especially challenging for my generation where I’ve seen it, I’ve seen it with, you know, the graduating classes that have come after me, where they’re the biggest, the biggest enemy against the church right now, for my age range is the couch, honestly. There is there is time, I know there is there’s just they’re battling exhaustion or, you know, lack of motivation. And, I mean, that’s why I’m very passionate about emphasizing church community, because I think it has made a very big difference in sweeping me, so you know, still to still a Christian, still a Christian through, you know, four or five different different jobs where with questionable influences throughout the way, I would say my church community has a good reason for that, you know?

    Paige C. Clark 37:17
    Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think to like, your church community, is a way of getting filled back up, when you’re pouring yourself out to your co workers and to, you know, your, your company and everything, like you’re, you’re not only like, from an energy and like an intention, but also like, spiritually, like, there, you might feel like work is a spiritual battle, and that, like, you have to actively fight against things, or you might feel like that your co workers are really, you know, I don’t wanna say troublesome, but like, are offering up situations that you don’t want to find yourself in and you’re having to actively fight against those or you’re just pouring yourself into some people who, you know, you think that can, you know, that God wants you to be in their life with and you’re constantly pouring yourself out in church community is your way of kind of getting filled back up to?

    Eden Estabrook 38:23
    Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely.

    Paige C. Clark 38:26
    So, Eden, I always like to finish with this question. What is one thing that our listeners could take away from this conversation and like implement in their life today? Of like, what we’re talking about? What is one thing that they can walk away with? They don’t have to I do this on every episode. So if you’re listening to every episode, choose one, but give them one to choose?

    Eden Estabrook 38:54
    Yeah, absolutely. I would give the same advice that my college pastor gave to me right before I went away to college, which was prioritize church on Sunday, and prioritize multigenerational interaction with other believers. He said, and I said, I can’t quite take credit for this. But honestly, it was one of the best things that I ever did in college and beyond. I still still practice it today. He said, You’re not going to really learn anything if you surround yourself by people who are, you know, basically struggling alongside you. You know, I’m with a bunch of people who are 26 We’re all going through the same things and nobody has the experience to help us get out of it. So prioritizing church on Sunday. It’s a good way to you know, obviously start start your work week off with some Jesus and hopefully refresh your soul for the potentially treacherous week ahead, but also, not isolating yourself. within, like, you know, you know, beyond professionals or I think that sort of interaction is great, but you know, find somebody younger and you know, mentor them, find somebody older and have them disciple you like, ya know, it’s church is a community, it should be a community. And if it’s not, then then I would question some things about that church, but the church should be something where you are walking alongside other people and doing why. together and helping each other helping bury each other’s burdens throughout the week. And I think that that would be my two part advice.

    Paige C. Clark 40:41
    I love it. I love eat. And thank you so much for joining us. This conversation was so good. And you have motivated me to go into my Bible and into the commentaries and do a lot more research.

    Eden Estabrook 40:56
    So where can people LinkedIn is probably the best point fine. Yeah, you Mr. Brooks. My picture I think looks like me. So there’s not a lot of Enos to what’s out there. But I’m located in Charlotte, North Carolina, if you need to verify the address the city, but that’s probably the best way. And feel free to message me on LinkedIn or, you know, connect and then message. I don’t know what regulations are around this between people anymore. But happy to happy to talk. I love meeting new people. So

    Paige C. Clark 41:33
    awesome. Even thank you so much for joining us, and we’ll catch you next time. Awesome. Thanks for joining us. If you liked what you were listening to make sure you subscribe and hit those five stars and we’ll catch you on the next episode.